holystove

17 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

They’re that committed to it that there are big calls for a second referendum. 

Do you think Remain would win in a second referendum?

4 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

I really don’t think it will. I haven’t for a long time. 

but why? it is official government policy to leave the EU and both main parties are committed to leaving.

The only way I can see Brexit not hapenning is in case of a new GE (not unlikely given realities of phase 2 of negotiation) and Labour coming out for remain (highly unlikely given how anti-EU (ie capitalism) Corbyn is).

3 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

I don't, I'd vote leave again tomorrow.

You're not alone.  Seems like very few have changed their mind.  Then why would you say Brexit won't happen?

"Was Britain right or wrong to vote to leave EU"? Right 44%  Wrong 45%  Don't know 11% -- YouGov Dec 10-11

"Who want to abandon Brexit completely: nationally: 15% middle/upper class: 19% 18-24 yr olds: 21% London: 21% Labour: 24% Remainers: 29% Lib Dems: 37%  -- YouGov, Dec 10-11

45 minutes ago, MikeO said:

I'd still argue that they had little choice and were effective in limiting the worst excesses of the Tories while they were in coalition; you just need to look at what's happened since to get proof of that. It cost them hugely (they probably knew it was going to) but it was the right thing to do; they were vilified for going back on their manifesto when, as a minority coalition partner, they never had a cat in hell's chance of implementing it.

Was there talk of other options instead of Tory-LibDem coalition in 2010?

5 hours ago, Louis said:

BBC are reporting that "UK is poised to accept that there can't be "regulatory divergence" between the North and South of Ireland after we leave the EU."

DUP politicians are very unhappy with that.

And DUP has now blown up the deal.   10 flat earthers are deciding the future of the UK and Europe.

1 hour ago, Quinn31 said:

@Peter H How's the weather?

 

Also, Roberto Martinez to cause England fans misery next summer?

They play each other last so presumably both on 6 points and both going to next round. 

https://advisa.se/en/research/brexit-bus/

1 hour ago, Matt said:

15cm of snow over night. Everything looks so clean  

Bloody cold though!

Snow without freezing temperatures, slippery roads, traffic james and a two hour drive to go 15 kilometres.. ffs

To be fair, had the UK voted to Remain, the same amount of money would have to be paid into the EU budget.  So it's not really true that it could have been spent on the NHS.

Ofcourse, now the money is being paid without the economic benefits of being part of the largest single market in the world..

12 hours ago, Bailey said:

I wondered how long it would take you to chip in  

[...]

But dont worry, we arent leaving the EU.

I'm on Toffeetalk daily to keep up with everything Everton, but can't help myself and always feel drawn to this thread  .. I guess it's like hafnia with Lukaku.   I wouldn't have replied if I didn't think it might help clarify something, or to put a different perspective on it though.

I seriously doubt the UK won't leave.  Even if the UK government changed its mind (which I don't really see happening), I don't think all the other member states would welcome the UK back (all of them have a veto). 

Also, it would be poisonous for the EU to keep a country on board whose population is pretty much split down the middle on whether or not they want to be in it.  I can only imagine more UKIPrs coming to Brussels .

16 hours ago, Bailey said:

You say this as if Brexit can't also be pro immigration and pro trade. Brexit shouldn' be about building walls it should be about welcoming and trading with everyone and not just primarily the EU. 

Being a member of the EU in no way restricts the UK to trade with everyone, it just extremely facilitates trade within the EU.  It also massivily helps the UK to trade outside of the EU.  There are only 6 countries (not important ones, Mauritania, North Korea, etc.) on the entire planet the EU has zero agreements with, because of Brexit that number will increase to 195 for the UK.  Sure, the UK will negotiate new agreements, but it will do so with a lot less leverage than it has now as a member of the EU.

No matter what the future relationship between the EU and the UK (at worst WTO), the UK will always trade primarily with the EU because of geography.

Brexit can't be pro trade, but in theory it can be pro immigration.  However I don't really think choosing that route would be a right interpretation of the Brexit vote. 

16 hours ago, Bailey said:

Theoretically Brexit allows the UK to do everything you have said on its own terms. I know it' not as simple as that, but you know what, it should be. It's the other countries and politicians generlly that make things complicated. 

The very moment the UK enters into negotations with any other entity in the world, it will have to compromise.  Only North Korea does everything on its own terms.

16 hours ago, Bailey said:

This is probably a bad example but Imagine if the US had to do everything the other countries in the Americas wanted to do?

The EU is not about continentals telling the UK what to do .. ?  Thanks to the (former) standing of the UK and its (former) soft power to influence and shape decisions taken at EU-level, a lot of people on the continent have had the feeling for decades it has been the other way around.

51 minutes ago, tonkaroost said:

I hate to say this, but the South American fan football culture has a "dirty" feel to it. I know that every country has a terrible fan here and there, but...

...you catch my drift.

If you have to play Galatasaray, Fenerbace or any other Turkish team in the Europa or Champions League, you can expect the same treatment.  Used to be true for Olympiakos and Panathinaikos as well.

http://reason.com/blog/2017/11/13/detroit-cops-posing-as-drug-dealers-braw/amp

13 hours ago, Bailey said:

Ah I see, it's a bit of a surprise that they havent lost more games really! 

16 games unbeaten, but barely anyone of note.

Player for player, Belgium has more talent than Germany but I would never bet on Germany losing to Belgium.  They need a top manager, a better system.  Golden generation being wasted.

10 hours ago, MikeO said:

Well done Sweden; put Italy out!

Only seen the highlights but seems Italy were robbed by the ref.

I thought Italy were very impressive in the EC 2016, shame they won't be in Russia.

10 hours ago, Bailey said:

Ironically for being too defensive! 

I saw him mention 5 at the back, is that how you have been lining before the weekend?

The set up is defensive (5 at the back), but the players used are all focused on attacking (Carrasco as left back for example).  So in reality it's just three at the back and 7 players constantly rushing forward.  It's why they score a lot of goals, but also concede too many.

That is De Bruyne's criticism.  The system Martinez plays, doesn't match the players he selects to play.

2 hours ago, MikeO said:

And he's only 24.

Made the first goal as well with brilliant touch/control/right foot shot that the keeper could only parry so de Bruyne had a tap-in.

It was Hazard who had the tap-in, but it was indeed a good move by Rom.  

On De Bruyne: he's fed up with Roberto Martinez who he accuses of poor tactics .. 

Scored twice against Mexico, becoming all time leading scorer for the national football team.

Indictment Day!

10 hours ago, MikeO said:

Behind a pay wall sadly; I'd like to read it.

To be clear I don't think the article has any special new insights and I'm sure it won't convince anyone who wants to brexit, I only posted that paragraph (which the political editor of FT has confirmed is the actual truth, not satire) because I think it confirms that Johnson has already gone off the deep end.

Quote

I am told that Mr Johnson’s response when presented with inconvenient truths is to cover his ears and hum the national anthem until the bearers of the bad news go away. One of the things that gets him humming most loudly is the hard evidence that falling back on WTO rules would decimate Britain’s professional services businesses.

https://amp.ft.com/content/5898bde4-b992-11e7-9bfb-4a9c83ffa852  

This is how all EU myths get started 

2 hours ago, rubecula said:

there is no deadlock, we voted to leave and we are or the government will fall.  If the EU do not want us to leave the that is tough, for those that voted to remain it is tough,  but we are leaving, no matter what anyone thinks.  Sorry if it offends but it is a fact of life, nothing can stop it now.

I don't think anyone is questioning the fact the UK is leaving, Rubes.  The negotiations are about how the UK leaves (yes/no withdrawal agreement, and subsequently yes/no trade deal), and they are currently deadlocked.

1 hour ago, rubecula said:

not sure if the greek fans care about the style they play they have won the euro before now,  but no home nation has.

I'm sure they don't.  But every neutral that watches Greece vs X, is most likely going to be supporting X because of Greece style of play.

1 hour ago, MikeO said:

I hope Sweden, NI, ROI and Greece but I'll be lucky to get one from the four.

Greece?  Horrible team to watch, extremely defensive.