FanchesterCity

If your employer said "no promotion, no pay rise, I need you to get the results you used to get, but I'm gonna replace some of your workmates with less able ones".... would it affect your performance? I think it would. You'd be demotivated, looking elsewhere, and wondering why you'd go the 'extra mile' for your paymasters. And if the fans are on your back too - why would you go the extra mile for them either? If the fans were still chanting your name, you MIGHT just take something from that and keep some enthusiasm in the face of adversity.... but there's a limit to how much enthusiasm the fans can keep drumming up too.

Looks like a close match for Everton and Fulham, with home advantage absolutely critical. Could still go either way this, but I'm opting for an Everton win, just.

To be fair... It's all too easy for someone to make an allegation against a top star and it result in an arrest. The arrest proves nothing other than the allegation has been made.

Generally speaking those footballers are professionals.... a PROFESSION. They don't love Everton (or any other team they play for). They want to do well, and be in a successful winning team, and of course, along the way they get 'attached' to clubs sometimes, but they are paid to do a job, and won't play for Everton for free. When their employer looks 'shaky' it will affect the team spirit. Players will start to wonder about their long term future and have heads turned by other teams who might offer better prospects, financially and in terms of trophies / prestige. Ultimately, that will result in a lack of 'fight'. Even if it's a 10% drop in motivation, 10% is a LOT in a premier league game. I know we all love to believe players are Everton (or whatever club you support) through and through, but they aren't. You're lucky if you get 3 players in a team who are.

I genuinely thought this might be on the cards at half time. Great game to watch, not the result we wanted, but can hold our heads up I think. If anything positive can be taken from the game (for City) it's that we didn't cave in, although we looked like we were close to doing so. Possibly a harsh sending off, but you win some and you lose some. Fair play to United - they did just enough to secure the game.

O'Neill had a fair bit of money at Villa and didn't surpass Everton. I think he's a good manager, but he's popular with the media too. Moyes is good but less popular. I'd struggle to put O'Neill ahead of Moyes (based on what Moyes has managed with Everton), the only thing about O'Neill (in his favour) is that he's done quite well in a number of places.

I think we forget sometimes how easily we can get upset on the internet. Under all the bravado and 'it's only a forum', you CAN say stuff sometimes that really gets someone upset... not necessarily because you posted something awful, but they might be particularly sensitive. And of course, sometimes, things just get to us, even when we have thick skins. I've walked out of matches and heard entirely opposite opinions about a player or a decision from fans of the same team who've just watched the same match... so you can bet your life on a forum like this the range of opinions will be huge. I'm much more in favour of people debating a point though, rather than discussing the poster of the comment. As soon as it turns to 'You are a tosser', or "you're always negative', the focus is turning from the topic to a person, and that's when it gets messy. I think people should try to avoid looking at WHO posted, and just focus on what was written. Saves a lot of upset.

I remember one guy at a match proposing to a girl.... and the classic... TOTAL classic from the crowd... "You don't know what you're doing!... you don't know what you're doing!" Sometimes, the wit of fans is just sublime.

Everyone has a view, and as long as folks aren't personal about things, they should be allowed to express it. It's too easy for someone to be accused of not being 'loyal' if they question the current tactics, or regime. It's too easy to be accused of being patronising (as a City) fan if you say something complimentary about Everton It's too easy to be accused of rubbing it in if you criticise aspects of Everton. It's just views, as wide and varied as can be. I don't think people jump on a bandwagon, it's simply that some themes really reasonate with someone's belief and passion.... so if you THINK BK's the problem, you'll jump in with BK talk. People see what they want to see. I know the moment I post a controversial view... the 'City' noose is around my neck. The same can happen with some of the Everton posters who are viewed as 'pessimists' or 'foolish optimists'. Once people assume that's what you are, they read that in your posts. Sometimes, it's worth reading a post multiple times and trying to really read what they are saying... usually it's not as bad as it might look.

Money has always been a key factor in success, and favours the large city teams over small town ones. With the advent of Sky, the money issue has simply been magnified and the gulf even bigger. When a team can dominate a league for 20 years, there's something inherenty 'unbalanced' about the competition. Money won't guarantee success, but it will improve the odds significantly... as Blackburn showed, Chelsea showed and City are starting to show. Those particular clubs made it more obvious because they spent a lot in a short time, whereas other clubs spent more over a long period, but still generally 'more' than the others. But Everton don't NEED a sugar daddy, they need good management who can manage the finances properly so that Moyes gets a fair crack of the whip proportionate the club that Everton are. That's my gripe with Everton's board. They're a top club, operating like a small one. The money HAS been going into the club, and disappearing.

Could have been a scene from BK meets BU

I knew it! you're Moyes' and Rooney's secret love child!!!

Talk to Newcastle fans Talk to Man City fans Waited YEARS for a trophy... a lot longer than Everton, and spent a lot of money trying.... so you can't really point a finger at Moyes as having underachieved or anything... he's done well. Given the resources Everton have had, I think it would be a real challenge to name another manager who would DEFINITELY have done better, and tricky to name one that PROBABLY would have done better. Wenger? Fergie? Mourinho? maybe, maybe not, but that's only 3 exceptional managers, and you were never in a position to recruit that sort of manager (in the last 20 years) The problems at Everton lie with the board. They have 80% of the materials needed to be competing at the very top and aren't doing so, and of the 20% they are lacking, other clubs have those missing elements too (new stadium, better location etc). I think all in all, putting your Everton hearts to one side and simply being realistic, funding for the team has been poor, and you've more then held your own given that. Funding has finally caught up with you (as it would do after a prolonged period of starvation) and you're starting to pay the price. Moyes MIGHT have protested more, but I expect he knew it would be futile. Any questions, anger, frustration etc really needs to be at the board asking how it can be that a top class club is struggling financially when it HASN'T been spending like idiots. IF Moyes was given money and didn't achieve, fair enough, show him the door. But not until then. I know at the moment, some are looking at poor Everton performances and turning their gaze to Moyes, in a belief that the team are actually quite good and he's not getting the best from them. I think this is slightly optimistic and suggest Everton as a team, just aren't that good any more, and the table is about right. I have no doubts that on a good day, Everton can put in some great performances, but on a bad day some lousy ones too. That's the marque of a mid-table team. Moyes cannot possibly have lost his footballing knowledge overnight, or become a lunatic and deliberately defensive manager. His choices MUST be part of a strategy that he believes to be the safest option for Everton. He's got a full season to get through, not a strong squad, and cannot afford to get into that bottom 8 dog fight towards the end of the season. I think he's looked at the squad, accepted that top 6 isn't realistic, and it's too risky to aim for and get it wrong. So he's gone for dull, boring and safe. Not a sexy choice, or a popular one, but perhaps he's doing his job.... securing Everton. BK is the problem. It's not money... Everton have good revenue and great stature. Somehow, and for some reason, a proportionate amount of money isn't staying at the club (let alone the squad). For this reason, one can ONLY blame the board. Nice chaps they may be. Lovers of Everton they may be. The right guys at the helm they are evidently not. The bottom line is the financial bottom line. That's all you need to read, and it condemns BK and Co.

You know, I have to confess this. I never liked Gary Neville, esp as a City fan but... Since leaving United, and heard from friends who know him quite well, he's a decent chap. He's certainly not been bigging up United on the telly. I have to tip my hat to him for managing to change my view of him.

I think it's related to his Man Utd connection

yeah, clubs NEED us.... although only about 30% of club revenue comes from the gate and merchandise! (so with zero fans they could still survive, in theory) Just like Asda NEED us.... (they'd go under with no customers)

The real tragedy is... of all the interested parties in a club, above the board, the players, the sponsors, the regulators..... it's the fans who pay the most, and suffer the most and love the most. In that sense, ONLY the fans truly own the club in their hearts. That's the biggest tragedy of all. Those to whom it literally matters the most are the ones who have the least power.

When you get down to brass tacks.... this. BUT.... It's understandable why fans want to know. And fans aren't typical consumers because of the emotional attachment. Even with your very favourite band, you can still switch sides.... but with your club? it's virtually impossible. Fans think they are investing in the club, not paying for 90 mins entertainment, but in truth, you're spot on. That's all they are paying for. Actually, awful analogy really, but we are more like drug addicts and the club are our dealer. ONLY one dealer has the 'stuff' we need though. No other shit will do!

lol @ question 7

Fair comments I'd say - although you DID say it was "our club and not his". It's just frustrating with protest groups. I understand their plight, I just don't think it ever gets anything done (certainly not protest groups of that nature). Alas, I'm not an Everton fan. I'm a City fan (don't say a word) - I just think this is a fine forum for football banter in general, and I take an interest in Everton simply because their literally a Grand Old Team (or club). To my mind Everton should be one of the markers we measure football by. If it's raining at Everton, or Arsenal etc, something's not right in football....

haha @ and the runaways. Comedy gold. Never knew he was a recording artist though! He's done it all has Bill!

The reason Everton fans bicker (as any other fan would do in the same situation) is because they are powerless. Their club is clearly being managed badly. I don't like to use the term 'badly', but what other word is there? Everton are one of the handful of greatest clubs in British history, still has a huge fan base, and still playing top flight football, gets fantastic TV money and spends next to sod all.... So the money's going / gone somewhere. It doesn't have some of the super duper fancy modern stadiums that some rivals have, but not all their rivals have them either. It doesn't have the best of locations IF you were to start a football club today, but then neither do many of their rivals. There is NO reason why Everton shouldn't be in a comparable position to Spurs, or Liverpool say. The implication being that the management of the club has been inferior. Fans bickering is simply frustration at seeing all this happen and being unable to do much about it. If they kept it in, they'd be a wreck. Some will show hopeless optimism, and others will be prophets of doom, some will laugh at the mess and some will cry. I'm not even emotionally attached to Everton, but it's a symptom of the mess footballs in (underneath the facade of Premier League being 'all that'). When Everton are in trouble, football is in trouble.

Erm let me explain. 1) Nowhere in life do you shout out your questions to someone, unannounced and uninvited and expect a positive response 2) They weren't legitimate questions, they were taunts in the guise of questions "who next bill?" "what's the price bill?". I understand the frustrations, but this was simply goading to get him to react, or say something. 3) It's not the fans club. You THINK it is. All fans like to believe it, but it's a myth. YOU are a captive punter (I don't mean Everton fans alone, I mean ALL fans of all clubs). You're caught up in a delusion that your passion and love for the club is reciprocated. It's not. They want your money, and they'll charge as much as they think you can sustain. 4) It IS BK's business. He's paid for his shares. 5) I agree entirely that the fans are incredibly important to a club, but y'ain't calling the shots. The only way the fans COULD change something is en masse, and typically only by hurting the club in the process (boycotting matches / merchandise etc). That's not going to happen is it? Which is why the board have the upper hand. I don't think the BU were particularly aggressive today, or particularly rude or anything - simply incapable of grasping that the exercise was entirely futile. They'd be better served raising money and making a legal agreement that the 'gift' be used to buy players or similar - not gonna happen though. All they've done with that video is just emphasize the unflattering situation that some of the fans are 'demanding change' (without any genuine strategy for what that change is going to be other than more money!) and a board that appears powerless to carry out their wishes because they believe the 'market is wrong and Everton are worth something they aren't'. The market is the market, Everton are worth what someone will pay.

Isn't it a shame when you get serious morons representing your club on other forums. Thank God most Everton fans are like the one on that forum. Every club's got them though, more the pity.

Suspect he means a 'thread'. It's only technobabble!