Memmaclub Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 OK - so window opens and we need atleast some players to freshen it up. We lose our second to top midfielder (last years player of the year)We let arguably our best striker go on loan. (After not giving him a chance this season) we don't look like bringing in anyone of great value yet there seems to be no massive outburst about this situation on here or atleast calling for the money from piernar to replace him. Maybe I have missed it but I am astounded the club have let it get to this without planning a fall back position. No piernar replacement eventhough they must have known he was going. No young player blooded (Gueye) to take his place. let yak go leaving saha as our only recognised prem CF. players constantly linked with leaving but no real substance of anyone coming in. If I was our top players baines felli etc I would be looking for a move come the summer. Leaving a sinking ship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 not much gets achieved on a forum..we all know the situation and have all aired our annoyance about it before..no point going in circles every few months Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FellainisHair Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Im sure If I rant on about the lack of money then Kenwright will immediatly give Moyes £30m to spend on players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 within the last 2 weeks alone: http://www.toffeetalk.com/index.php?/topic/22228-why-is-nobody-going-mad-at-bill-kenwright/ http://www.toffeetalk.com/index.php?/topic/22194-when-is-enough-enough/ fact is for Pienaar, he was offered a handsome contract but got a better offer else where. We have still made a profit on him, even with less than 6 months of his contract remaining. Thats damn good business, especially since his performances this year havent been as good as last season. Yak has had 1 good season in 3, thats fact too, injuries or not. If he's been shipped off and we have him off the wage bill then good, we dont need him sulking on the bench. We have a few strikers in his place, mostly unproven I grant you. We're skint again, whats the solution? Sell up to the next Yankee company that comes along, or maybe Gold and Sullivan when theyve finished destroying West Ham? I cant be arsed having this argument again, frankly im bored of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smeghead1 Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Im as fcuked off as anyone but just hope it doesnt get to DM coz if it did and he jacked in we'd be screwed! Wasnt he on ssn today biggin the board and BK up, take it the hypnosis is still working on him then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 within the last 2 weeks alone: http://www.toffeetalk.com/index.php?/topic/22228-why-is-nobody-going-mad-at-bill-kenwright/ http://www.toffeetalk.com/index.php?/topic/22194-when-is-enough-enough/ fact is for Pienaar, he was offered a handsome contract but got a better offer else where. We have still made a profit on him, even with less than 6 months of his contract remaining. Thats damn good business, especially since his performances this year havent been as good as last season. Yak has had 1 good season in 3, thats fact too, injuries or not. If he's been shipped off and we have him off the wage bill then good, we dont need him sulking on the bench. We have a few strikers in his place, mostly unproven I grant you. We're skint again, whats the solution? Sell up to the next Yankee company that comes along, or maybe Gold and Sullivan when theyve finished destroying West Ham? I cant be arsed having this argument again, frankly im bored of it. Matt, I can't see how Pienaar leaving for £3m a £500k profit is "good business". Does that mean if we sold Coleman for £560K then it would represent good business? No, because in real market value terms Coleman is already IMO nudging the £6m mark with add ons. Pienaar in terms of real market value (at May 2009 when negotiations started) would have likely have been in the £12m-£15m region - he was flying, lobbed goal against Arsenal etc. As it happened everyone knew that he was biding his time to secure the best financial deal, and it wasn't going to be us to offer it was it? So to financially appraise what you see is good business the bottom line figure is that by keeping Pienaar till now rather than sell in 2009 has cost us approx £143,000 per week for his services. Good business would have been to resolve the contract issue one way or another rather than to lose him to a team who will have the luxury of using one of our key players as a squad player - we slip further down the pecking order. Yak - was he sulking? I don't know if he was, but if I was in his shoes watching saha jog through the game like it was some form of knock about with his mates I would have been livid. One good season in three is about as much as a striker has achieved at most under Moyes 4-5-1 system. Do not be surprised to see him net 15 plus goals for Leicester as part of a two man strike partnership. The "we are skint, but lets be thankful Bill Kenwright and co aren't gold and sullivan, yankee company etc etc" is just pure and utter apologist rubbish, it is a short cut to thinking and quite frankly if you think that the future of our club is safe in their "short arms long pockets" hands you are misguided. I am at the stage with those clowns that I try not to let it bother me as much as it has done, as quite honestly their neglect of a grand club and the propaganda spewed out is outrageous. You often find the apologists mention the Glazers, Hicks and Gillets, Golds and O'Sullivans but never the Lerners, Niall Quinns, Peter Coates, Daniel Levy, Abramovich, Sheikh Mansours. Quite frankly that isn't boring, that's just blinkered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Good business would have been to resolve the contract issue one way or another rather than to lose him to a team who will have the luxury of using one of our key players as a squad player.... There's no proof one way or the other (available to us mere mortals) but it's my view that the only way that the club could have possibly resolved the Pienaar issue would have been to transfer list him. How would that have gone down? He'd made his mind up (I think). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Matt, I can't see how Pienaar leaving for £3m a £500k profit is "good business". Does that mean if we sold Coleman for £560K then it would represent good business? No, because in real market value terms Coleman is already IMO nudging the £6m mark with add ons. Pienaar in terms of real market value (at May 2009 when negotiations started) would have likely have been in the £12m-£15m region - he was flying, lobbed goal against Arsenal etc. As it happened everyone knew that he was biding his time to secure the best financial deal, and it wasn't going to be us to offer it was it? So to financially appraise what you see is good business the bottom line figure is that by keeping Pienaar till now rather than sell in 2009 has cost us approx £143,000 per week for his services. Good business would have been to resolve the contract issue one way or another rather than to lose him to a team who will have the luxury of using one of our key players as a squad player - we slip further down the pecking order. Yak - was he sulking? I don't know if he was, but if I was in his shoes watching saha jog through the game like it was some form of knock about with his mates I would have been livid. One good season in three is about as much as a striker has achieved at most under Moyes 4-5-1 system. Do not be surprised to see him net 15 plus goals for Leicester as part of a two man strike partnership. The "we are skint, but lets be thankful Bill Kenwright and co aren't gold and sullivan, yankee company etc etc" is just pure and utter apologist rubbish, it is a short cut to thinking and quite frankly if you think that the future of our club is safe in their "short arms long pockets" hands you are misguided. I am at the stage with those clowns that I try not to let it bother me as much as it has done, as quite honestly their neglect of a grand club and the propaganda spewed out is outrageous. You often find the apologists mention the Glazers, Hicks and Gillets, Golds and O'Sullivans but never the Lerners, Niall Quinns, Peter Coates, Daniel Levy, Abramovich, Sheikh Mansours. Quite frankly that isn't boring, that's just blinkered. like i said, i cant be arsed going into this argument again. Youre using the same arguements again, im not playing despite a couple of holes in your response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Over 2m is good business for a player who wants to leave with only six months left on his contract IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 de ja vu hits a lot round here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 de ja vu hits a lot round here Sure I've heard that before somewhere.....spooky . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 (edited) de ja vu hits a lot round here Hopefully not for much longer, an unresolved concern that splits opinion. An issue that is at the heart of many forum topics, facebook groups etc. We could reopen the man love for johnny heitinga thread and pretend that we are actually in the Market for new faces. Does this add any further justification.... http://m.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/jan/22/everton-david-moyes-buy-players?cat=football&type=article Edited January 22, 2011 by Hafnia2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 im not sayin people shouldnt complain just the same roundabouts on different threads seems pointless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 I've made a few posts in the past six months about the club's financial position. It's not ideal but we have to be cautious. The club know that there is no money, we know that there is no money. What is it people are complaining about; that there are no new faces or that the club is in a poor financial position? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 I'm complaining that the club is not for sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonButtle Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 I've made a few posts in the past six months about the club's financial position. It's not ideal but we have to be cautious. The club know that there is no money, we know that there is no money. What is it people are complaining about; that there are no new faces or that the club is in a poor financial position? yeah, but football is big business these days. and you can't run a business with no capitol, which is what we are doing, and it shows. Kenwright and the board should do the right thing and step aside, but the problem is that Kenwright wants to stay involved no matter what, even though he has nothing to offer the club, thats what has stopped potential investors in the past, because Bill still wants full control over everything, the fans need to force BK out, there is no other way tbh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 Kenwright and the board should do the right thing and step aside Who would take over ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonButtle Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 Who would take over ? no idea Mike, but tell me you think he can stay for much longer? especially if that thing about the Arabs and City is true, he is mad to even show his face in Liverpool again if thats accurate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 no idea Mike, but tell me you think he can stay for much longer? especially if that thing about the Arabs and City is true, he is mad to even show his face in Liverpool again if thats accurate There's zero credible evidence that it's true. It's a self-fuelling internet rumour. City have a new ground and were instant gratification for the puppetmasters....no way they'd have invested in us ahead of City. My point is that it's completely pointless to say that they should stand down unless there's someone willing and able to step up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonButtle Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 yeah i agree with you from the point that we need someone to come in, but we can't have a chairman and board with no money, it just does'nt work, this is whats happened in spain, and the are threatened with about 4 or 5 of the clubs down the bottom just dissapearing at the moment, he NEEDS to find some money from somewhere and soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 Maybe not step down, but instead of looking for investment look for a buyer. He has said time and time again he wants someone to come in and invest. If you had 100m spare would you give it to someone who admits to not being a businessman and leave them to run your business? Or would you want to run it yourself? And the fact that the Kirkby exclusivity agreement stated that no board members were planning to sell up proves he doesn't want to give up his toy even more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 Maybe not step down, but instead of looking for investment look for a buyer. He has said time and time again he wants someone to come in and invest. "Whether it is a Sheikh, whether it is a Russian, an American, whether it is any one of the 14 or 15 people I have met in the last 12 months. I want to give you that. I want you to give that billionaire to every single one of you. I would sell tomorrow." You choose to believe him or you choose not to, but don't pretend he's never said it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 But mike it was written into the exclusivity agreement and published for all to see as part of the documents issued. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Partington Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 Get yourself on Bluekipper if you want to see a forum outburst, jesus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smeghead1 Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 Can anyone explain to me why the fcuk we cannot afford to buy a striker and i mean buy not loan! Weve just signed up with Chang again, sold Bellfield, got 1 million up front for Yaks loan and 2+ million for Pienaar, why cant we BUY one out of that? Ffs Bill sign a bloody cheque before its too late! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 This may clear it up. Wages at an all time high Net debt at the highest it's been for five years For each £1 the club has in assets (I don't think academy graduates are included), £1.42 is owed out to creditors (banks, other clubs for transfer fees, staff wages etc.). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 But mike it was written into the exclusivity agreement and published for all to see as part of the documents issued. That was actually written in the (revised) planning application to Knowsley council in April 2008 by Tescos. Do you not think it's possible that they would spin a little to make their application more likely to be accepted? Anyway, the point stands. You can choose to believe what Tesco said in April 2008 or you can choose to believe what BK said at the EGM five months later. I could put forward the same reasons that I always do as to why I believe Bill but I've done it lots of times and I'm bored with it now . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 Fair point mike, I'll always respect your opinion mate it's the TT way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 Unfortunately I don't trust bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 Unfortunately I don't trust bill. So (my usual follow up question and you may have answered it before), if Bill's got a hidden agenda then DM is either complicit with the deceit (and goes along with it for his pay packet) or he's being taken in along with the rest of us (which makes him pretty dense). Which do you think it is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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