Bailey Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 I dont think we have many that could be actual captains... Cahill shouldnt really be starting, Arteta has been really poor, Jags is slipping as well. Maybe Osman, as he really stepped up end of last year when we needed him and while he does have the odd stinker, he still gives 100% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 Think exactly the same thing mate, as much as i hate him Gerrard is the perfect example of a captain. For me the closest we have is Cahill HB, how can you say Nev is not a good captain because of performances, and name Cahill, who had a terrible season year before last, and then pissed off to Australia leaving us in the shit last season? Just asking like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 HB, how can you say Nev is not a good captain because of performances, and name Cahill, who had a terrible season year before last, and then pissed off to Australia leaving us in the shit last season? Just asking like? That's why I wouldn't have Cahill, captain needs to be key first team player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 One bad game the weekend after watching the team he's been brought up by and people are questing his ability to be captain. Fickle much? He was the best club captain in the prem the last few years so much so that spurs tried to buy him in January. Everyone 8 months ago would have agreed he was the best captain in the prem and I can not think of one that comes close. I seen Gerrards name mentioned above which puzzled me, he's just a loud mouth and they do better with out him for a reason. The only captain I can think of who come close is Kevin Davies. Vidic is also worth a mention, but the arm band gets passed round that much I don't even know if he's there 1st choice or if he's got it because of injuries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 One bad game the weekend after watching the team he's been brought up by and people are questing his ability to be captain. Fickle much? He was the best club captain in the prem the last few years so much so that spurs tried to buy him in January. Everyone 8 months ago would have agreed he was the best captain in the prem and I can not think of one that comes close. I seen Gerrards name mentioned above which puzzled me, he's just a loud mouth and they do better with out him for a reason. The only captain I can think of who come close is Kevin Davies. Vidic is also worth a mention, but the arm band gets passed round that much I don't even know if he's there 1st choice or if he's got it because of injuries. I think Neville's off the field captaincy is unquestionable in the standards him and Moyes have set and I wouldnt want anyone else in that role. However, I dont think he is always the best leader on the pitch, and for what it is worth, I have thought that for a couple of seasons now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 Gerrard is a bad diver. He's also been out as much as he's been in lately. His career ended sometime ago, so not sure why he didn't retire while he was at the top. Again, we only see what we see regarding players. Nev plays, not because he is a better player than Hibbert, but because he is decent, and, has leadership skills. That combined make him every bit as useful on the pitch as Glen Johnson, for example. If Moyes had a better option, he would use it, wouldn't he? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 never seen the hype with the gerrard captaincy...scores a late goal every now an then but that's about it..crackin footballer but sets a shit example on and off the pitch for young players and such.. several times on this forum he has been mentioned as a player we missed in such a game cos we had no leadership on the pitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalewoodBlue Posted August 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 HB, how can you say Nev is not a good captain because of performances, and name Cahill, who had a terrible season year before last, and then pissed off to Australia leaving us in the shit last season? Just asking like? Our top scorer for the last god knows how many seasons you mean? Jt top scorer last year when according to you he had a terrible season and pissed off to Aus. The guy who has got us out of the shit more times than i care to mention since he joined for a cut price figure. The guy who shows more passion for the club is his little finger than the majority of the squad? Yeh shit him mate, i would hate a capt like that above Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalewoodBlue Posted August 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 One bad game the weekend after watching the team he's been brought up by and people are questing his ability to be captain. Fickle much? He was the best club captain in the prem the last few years so much so that spurs tried to buy him in January. Everyone 8 months ago would have agreed he was the best captain in the prem and I can not think of one that comes close. I seen Gerrards name mentioned above which puzzled me, he's just a loud mouth and they do better with out him for a reason. The only captain I can think of who come close is Kevin Davies. Vidic is also worth a mention, but the arm band gets passed round that much I don't even know if he's there 1st choice or if he's got it because of injuries. When you say everyone who exactly are you talking about? Certainly not me, i have never rated him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 I'm not nevillea biggest fan but I'm happy to have him in the team. But I must ask, how many other "average footballers" have that many England caps and that many winners medals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalewoodBlue Posted August 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 I'm not nevillea biggest fan but I'm happy to have him in the team. But I must ask, how many other "average footballers" have that many England caps and that many winners medals. Interesting never been given an England cap while at Everton despite some saying he has been in great form, and given a greater responsibility and the international team not being blessed in this area....go figure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 Our top scorer for the last god knows how many seasons you mean? Jt top scorer last year when according to you he had a terrible season and pissed off to Aus. The guy who has got us out of the shit more times than i care to mention since he joined for a cut price figure. The guy who shows more passion for the club is his little finger than the majority of the squad? Yeh shit him mate, i would hate a capt like that above My comments weren't guesses but factual. No personal opinion came into it. Moyes gave him the armband in an attempt to get him to buck up, and how long did it last? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 Interesting never been given an England cap while at Everton despite some saying he has been in great form, and given a greater responsibility and the international team not being blessed in this area....go figure! He chose to have an op and be ready for the start of the season for Everton rather than go the WC and miss a few matches for us. Yet people still question his loyalty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 He chose to have an op and be ready for the start of the season for Everton rather than go the WC and miss a few matches for us. Yet people still question his loyalty Don't you mean he replaced the mighty Nigel Reo Coker who withdrew from being stand by in 2006? So he was standby for a stand by, His England career was primarily at left back as the stop gap between le saux and ashley cole, other than that because he could do the defensive midfield and cover full backs he was picked often as squad player, used mosty in nothing games and appeaing as sub. Gave away that last minute pen against Romania which made me use many bad words. I have no problem with him at our club, just let's stop painting him to be something he is not. He has been a very fortunate player, made the most of what he had - I just want him to stop using his mouth so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 Don't you mean he replaced the mighty Nigel Reo Coker who withdrew from being stand by in 2006? So he was standby for a stand by, His England career was primarily at left back as the stop gap between le saux and ashley cole, other than that because he could do the defensive midfield and cover full backs he was picked often as squad player, used mosty in nothing games and appeaing as sub. Gave away that last minute pen against Romania which made me use many bad words. I have no problem with him at our club, just let's stop painting him to be something he is not. He has been a very fortunate player, made the most of what he had - I just want him to stop using his mouth so much. How many rally calls will be as a result of him being asked to give one from above? He's probably contacted to certain things, and he'll no doubt have PR agents etc telling him what to say and when to say it. He's not the sharpest tool in the box after all, but he 'is' a fantastic representative of our club, and stands for positivity and hard work. He's a very good role model, and I'd have no concerns that my kids would be wrongly influenced by the guy. How many times have you seen a guy get promoted above you that you felt wasn't as good as the job as you were? Sometimes it's because the manager can programme and mould certain folk as opposed to others. It's not all about performance. Can you imagine Baines getting the captains role? They'd be checking each others nails and discussing magazine articles. As a player, he's actually not as bad as many say. My main gripe used to be that he would give away free kicks in dangerous areas, but to be fair he's improved on that, and is a decent tackler. He has bags of experience in which to coach our young lads, and a lot of that happens on the pitch in a match, rather than just in the training hours. I actually prefer Hibbert at RB, but Moyes must feel that Nev is the man for the job at present. Is Hibbert fully fit? There are quite a few teams who would be glad of Neville. It's not all about what he does in 90 minutes, but more than anyone, Moyes has faith in him. I have faith in Moyes, so can't grumble too much. When he's poor, I'm just as keen as anyone else to slate him, but I can't say that of him lately. One bad match doesn't make a bad player, and I even thought he played ok last match, as my comment in the motm thread will testify. I don't see too many captains at the moment. Moyes might be well advised to start training someone up to take over from Nev. I figure maybe Rodwell has the necessary attitude, but he's far too young. Osman is the only other guy I've seen giving a player a bollocking, so for me it would have to be Osman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 (edited) <p><p> </p></p><p><p> </p></p> <p><p> </p></p> <p><p>Don't you mean he replaced the mighty Nigel Reo Coker who withdrew from being stand by in 2006? So he was standby for a stand by,</p></p> <p><p> </p></p> <p><p>His England career was primarily at left back as the stop gap between le saux and ashley cole, other than that because he could do the defensive midfield and cover full backs he was picked often as squad player, used mosty in nothing games and appeaing as sub. Gave away that last minute pen against Romania which made me use many bad words.</p></p> <p><p> </p></p> <p><p>I have no problem with him at our club, just let's stop painting him to be something he is not. He has been a very fortunate player, made the most of what he had - I just want him to stop using his mouth so much.</p></p> <p><p> Am on about the 2010 WC. Am surprised you want him to keep shut, but want Everton to wash there dirty laundry in public. When he was on the OS every week saying the same old stuff everyone moaned it was tiresome-which i agree. However if the club captain weren't vocal i'd be very worried, obviously not everything will be to everyones liking. If everyone was scared of upsetting a few people no one would voice there opinion and life would be speechless and uninspiring. I don't believe he has been that fortunate. He was stuck on the bench or playing out of position for the best team in the world because of his older brother being the best rb in the world at the time and if Gary had gone to another club it Phil would probably still be there. I don't understand the moaning about him going to a utd game, not one person moaned about how Unsworth should have had more respect for his employers when he sat in the Gladys for the derby. Edited August 24, 2011 by pete0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse_Wray Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 (edited) Halewood Blue: You can't seriously think leading by example on the pitch is the only mark of a good captain. The job of a leader goes faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar beyond the skills and performance shown on the pitch. To think otherwise suggests a real lack of football knowledge and experience. Edited August 24, 2011 by Jesse_Wray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalewoodBlue Posted August 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 Halewood Blue: You can't seriously think leading by example on the pitch is the only mark of a good captain. The job of a leader goes faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar beyond the skills and performance shown on the pitch. To think otherwise suggests a real lack of football knowledge and experience. Its the only place the matters Jesse, he is a captain of a football team. How can a leader 'lead' and inspire the rest if its the very same player who is responsible for messing up in the 1st place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 <p><p> Am on about the 2010 WC. Am surprised you want him to keep shut, but want Everton to wash there dirty laundry in public. When he was on the OS every week saying the same old stuff everyone moaned it was tiresome-which i agree. However if the club captain weren't vocal i'd be very worried, obviously not everything will be to everyones liking. If everyone was scared of upsetting a few people no one would voice there opinion and life would be speechless and uninspiring. I don't believe he has been that fortunate. He was stuck on the bench or playing out of position for the best team in the world because of his older brother being the best rb in the world at the time and if Gary had gone to another club it Phil would probably still be there. I don't understand the moaning about him going to a utd game, not one person moaned about how Unsworth should have had more respect for his employers when he sat in the Gladys for the derby. He needs to be mindful of what the fans are seeing and feeling. These players are so far removed from reality it's untrue. We had an appalling pre season, the only glimmer of optimism was Barkley. The squad needs freshening up majorly but we have no money. He comes out with the irritating soundbites that all is ok, don't worry, good squad etc. We play terrible against a team that shipped 4 goals, he had a stinker. After signing a two year deal which I do not see any point in at all, he comes out and differentiates between real fans and non fans based on whether they are negative about the current regime? Sorry but for me he's completely and utterly got it wrong, the players barring Barkley and cahill should donate a weeks wages to the circus upstairs to put towards the £1.3m interest payment that will line mr earls pockets. As for this "watching with the fans, whilst playing for another rival" - I don't get it. Unsworth, Rooney whoever. It's mardy attention seeking and unnneccesary. Go in the main stand and at least look like you are scouting. Not trying to win favour with your ex fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 its not the only place that matters, he has to be theit leader on and off the pitch. on the pitch is only half of his job. and if the leader messes up (which can happen in any team) they must hold their hands up. did Dave Watson never put a foot wrong? how could Duncan lead when he was in an early bath or the physios room? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalewoodBlue Posted August 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 its not the only place that matters, he has to be theit leader on and off the pitch. on the pitch is only half of his job. and if the leader messes up (which can happen in any team) they must hold their hands up. did Dave Watson never put a foot wrong? how could Duncan lead when he was in an early bath or the physios room? Never said they cant make mistakes, but phil is responsible for a lot more than any capt should Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 doesnt make sense to me. i just dont see where the mistakes come into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 Never said they cant make mistakes, but phil is responsible for a lot more than any capt should I think phils main problem is like his brother, he enjoys the sound of his own voice too much. Pair of militants. Leave politics to the fans to discuss, I still couldn't believe Gary wanted to strike because rio was dropped for missing his drug test by England. Got far too much to say. Followed him on twitter and some stuff you just do not come out with. "beat the mrs up, feel better now" - imagine mr barton getting away with that? add onto that some ott comments to Coleman, who fair play gave as good as he got, only for then Neville to throw toys out the pram a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalewoodBlue Posted August 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 doesnt make sense to me. i just dont see where the mistakes come into it. Forget football for a min and think of leaders from around the world. They are not the weak link of the organisation like Phil is, i fail to see how a player who shouldnt be a automatic starter in the 1st 11 can be considered capt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 dont agree with you haf about players watchin other teams..they're fans just like us and as long as they have their own free time to do it why should it matter what they do? it's not exactly like they're crowd surfin with everyone is it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 Forget football for a min and think of leaders from around the world. They are not the weak link of the organisation like Phil is, i fail to see how a player who shouldnt be a automatic starter in the 1st 11 can be considered capt do you fail to see that he is an automatic starter? i noticed that by the fact the moyes picks him every week! he is our best right back. he is our most experienced player and has been around successful teams for about ten years. im pretty sure this is why moyes has him as his captain. last year he publicly stated he would step down as captain if moyes wanted to give the arm band to jags, but he got told no by moyes. davey knows enough about football and about leaders to make this decision, i think its a good one. hes not the best player in the world but he has done more than most and that experience can only help the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 Old vid, but the irony made me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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