Peter H Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 You guys are going to shoot me down for this but ive been thinking........ Alot lately. Since the BU interview. And im thinking that we are being greedy. Whats happening to our beloved club? Let me give you some background. Yes, im swedish, im not there every week, feeling your pain. But im still feeling the pain, ive supported Everton for 30-32 years now. However, being in Sweden and being swedish i also support a swedish team faller djurgården. And they have been up and down in the swedish league system like a yoyo. The last time they were sent down was in the end of the last decade. At the time they started to sort their economy out. Got rid of dept and players. Cleaned out, so to speak. They were straight up that season and went on to win the swedish league 4 times in the beginning of this decade. (now they are on the slip again). What i am getting at is that its not always a bad thing to let go of the past and look forward. Are our eyes to big for our bellies? Are players like Baines, Arteta, Jagielka and Felli an unneccecary (spelling?) luxury that we cant afford? Should we clear dept and look forward? The club is not going to find a buyer if it is run the way it is at the moment. Who in their right mind would buy a company thats bleeding out, unless they want to chop it up and sell it off in pieces. If we sold off some of our priced assets, who would replace them? My answer is the youth. Give them à full season in the top flight. Let barkley take the Arteta role. Let Rodwell take the Felli role. We have cover for Jagielka aswell in players like Duffy. Are they ready and up for it. Perhaps not. Do i feel we Will go down if we did this? Perhaps, but as i stated in the beginning, its not always a bad thing. However, i still feel that we could make it without going down. Worst case - we go down, we have cleared dept and are able to start building for the future. The youth gets much needed experience in the top flight. Best case - we stay up, youth gets experience, we clear dept. We get sold. New owners start investing. I love Everton. This situation pains me. Go ahead and shoot me down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 Bang Bang. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wall Writer Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 It would be a very very sad day if we ever went down, and something I'm not prepared to even contemplate. Things definitely need shaking up, we are stale and stagnating at the moment I feel, and at the same time stuck between a rock and a hard place. We have to sell to buy, but we don't want to get rid of any of our players, or people don't want to pay what we feel is a reasonable price. I feel we just have to suck it up and accept our lot, this is where we are and that isn't going to change any time soon. Maybe our eyes are a little to big for our bellies, but then our motto is nil satis nisi optimum, so there's a contradiction in there somewhere. We've a right to expect the best, the players, manager, club are always talking about trying your best, giving it your all, but yesterday's effort was (at least for me) nowhere near what we've come to expect or accept from this team. We all know they can do much better than that. We must remember though that we are only game into the season. Yeah, it was a major disappointment, and we are all hoping that things will start to turn themselves around quickly, and not at the turn of the year. In all honesty, I can't see us winning any cups or getting into Europe without some new faces in the squad, but we will be playing in the Premier League next season, and we will finish in the top 10 (personally, I think 7-8th). Yeah we would all like better, but that's what I realistically think we can expect (without eyes outsizing belly). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 I had similar thought to you about two years ago. We could sell players to bring down wage expense, this would have four main effects: Ticket sales will reduce The board will become unpopular because we are letting our better players leave. The manager is more likely to leave The playing quality of the team could mean a relegation fight It's an entertainment business and I don't think many people could care less about financial background of the club as long as there is a strong team playing football. It sounds very similar to what Mike Ashley is now doing at Newcastle, despite putting over £100m into the club he is unpopular and cutting back on wages (selling Jose Enrique and all but axing Joey Barton) is making him more so. I don't think prudence pays in football, because people are paying to be entertained and are attracted to the big names. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willo Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 We could sell players to bring down wage expense, this would have four main effects: Ticket sales will reduce The board will become unpopular because we are letting our better players leave. The manager is more likely to leave The playing quality of the team could mean a relegation fight There is a 5th effect mate , it will make us an even bigger laughing stock than we already are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 Why's that? (Ideally that'd be a new thread - Are Everton now a laughing stock? ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willo Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 Why's that? (Ideally that'd be a new thread - Are Everton now a laughing stock? ) Judging by the absolute ribbing i'am getting from my red shite mates and red shite family about this awful situation we're well on our way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 I've been getting much worse than laughed at, I've been getting sympathy!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 ha red shites givin sympathy..they paid 35m for andy carroll..nuff said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 I think you are right in that we should sell off some dead wood, but the nucleus of the team would have to stay the same, and imo we have a bloody good nucleus. If we were looking at todays squad, I wouldnt be overly dissapointed if we got rid of Jags, Distin, Bily, Arteta, Cahill, Vic, Osman, Hibbert, Saha, Yakubu, Yobo (already gone I think?), Mucha, Beckford. However I realise there would be little value in moving the likes of Osman & Hibbert on so I would keep them unless Man City were ready to splash the cash! That would leaves us with Howard, Neville, Heitinga, Duffy, Baines, Felli, Rodwell, Barkley, Coleman, Vellios, Baxter, Mcaleney, Gueye which might not be ready to start winning the league yet, but I bet they wouldnt have done much worse than we did yesterday. Say you could sell the first lot on for £50mil (fairly realistic) which would be a huge whack off the wage bill (£300k a week?) and bring in some decent youngsters and a decent striker, and probably still have £10mil to go on the debts. Its certainly one way of looking at it, and I think we probably should do it to a certain degree, although Im not sure how long the likes of Felli & Heitinga would want to stick around if this happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 You guys are going to shoot me down for this but ive been thinking........ Alot lately. Since the BU interview. And im thinking that we are being greedy. Whats happening to our beloved club? Let me give you some background. Yes, im swedish, im not there every week, feeling your pain. But im still feeling the pain, ive supported Everton for 30-32 years now. However, being in Sweden and being swedish i also support a swedish team faller djurgården. And they have been up and down in the swedish league system like a yoyo. The last time they were sent down was in the end of the last decade. At the time they started to sort their economy out. Got rid of dept and players. Cleaned out, so to speak. They were straight up that season and went on to win the swedish league 4 times in the beginning of this decade. (now they are on the slip again). What i am getting at is that its not always a bad thing to let go of the past and look forward. Are our eyes to big for our bellies? Are players like Baines, Arteta, Jagielka and Felli an unneccecary (spelling?) luxury that we cant afford? Should we clear dept and look forward? The club is not going to find a buyer if it is run the way it is at the moment. Who in their right mind would buy a company thats bleeding out, unless they want to chop it up and sell it off in pieces. If we sold off some of our priced assets, who would replace them? My answer is the youth. Give them à full season in the top flight. Let barkley take the Arteta role. Let Rodwell take the Felli role. We have cover for Jagielka aswell in players like Duffy. Are they ready and up for it. Perhaps not. Do i feel we Will go down if we did this? Perhaps, but as i stated in the beginning, its not always a bad thing. However, i still feel that we could make it without going down. Worst case - we go down, we have cleared dept and are able to start building for the future. The youth gets much needed experience in the top flight. Best case - we stay up, youth gets experience, we clear dept. We get sold. New owners start investing. I love Everton. This situation pains me. Go ahead and shoot me down. People forget it's just a game at the end of the day. Our club doesn't deserve the pressure it's under. Our fans are starting to sound like Liverpool fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted August 21, 2011 Report Share Posted August 21, 2011 It really doesn't deserve pressure? That I can't comprehend, not when we are losing money hand over fist! When we are past sell to buy and are closer to sell to survive. From a fan who has been around and seen the great teams you have in your time I am shocked! Were sounding like Liverpool fans? I forget we're meant to be the strong silent types who don't like to cause a fuss! Give me a break, the Liverpool fans managed to get rid of the people who put them in financial danger. United fans have protested that the Glazers put them in financial danger, there is nothing wrong with the fans not accepting the financial situation we find ourselves in. There is more wrong with doing nothing about it and letting the worst happen. We are in a worse financial position than Johnson left us in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flaminfox Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 I honestly think we can afford to sell some of our "big" players and still manage to do well and, with the money we earn, we might be able to get a couple good players and bargains. We could be stable financially and maybe challenge for something. The only problem is I might be a little too optimistic about our youth :/ and some of the players such a Bidwell, Garbutt, Hope, and Lundstrum might not make it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markza Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 We need to know how to make the club sustainable. We have no expensive stadium that we have mortgage payments on, we have no expensive superstar wages and we get 38,000 through the turnstiles every game so how come the books are not balanced. Look at clubs like Fulham and Stoke. They seem to be going ok and are much smaller than us so why does our business model not work. All I can say is that BK and the board are not short of a hot dinner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted August 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 We need to know how to make the club sustainable. We have no expensive stadium that we have mortgage payments on, we have no expensive superstar wages and we get 38,000 through the turnstiles every game so how come the books are not balanced. Look at clubs like Fulham and Stoke. They seem to be going ok and are much smaller than us so why does our business model not work. All I can say is that BK and the board are not short of a hot dinner However, if the BU interview is correct, BK is not on a wage. We cannot demand that he ploughs more of his personal money into the club. I think he should be on a wage. But we must be able to afford it. I honestly think we can afford to sell some of our "big" players and still manage to do well and, with the money we earn, we might be able to get a couple good players and bargains. We could be stable financially and maybe challenge for something. The only problem is I might be a little too optimistic about our youth :/ and some of the players such a Bidwell, Garbutt, Hope, and Lundstrum might not make it I also think that we can make it without some of our big names, but we must get good pay for them. I still think that great replacements should not be the first priority. First priority should be to clear dept. WE MUST STOP PAYING INTEREST! We must keep our head over water. If we got 20 mill for Baines and put 17 of those to the banks. Replaced with an ok standard LB for 3 mill. If we got 20 mill for Felli and used the full amount to pay off loans - Use Rodwell instead If we got 12-15 mill for Arteta (dreaming I know) we should pay 6 mill to the bank and use the rest to find a replacement or use Barkley Thats 43 mill to the bank. And a much smaller wage bill. I dont want to loose either of those players, but I dont want the club to bust either. We CAN manage without them and stay up in the prem. If we started to clear dept and not pay so much interest I think that we would deliver black numbers every month. Stop the bleeding. That would attract interest from potential buyers. No-one wants to throw their money away. I also believe that the fans would like to see the youngsters make it in the prem. We are all very excited about Barkley. Hell Barkley alone might justify buying a ticket every week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 Pete, they're going to start calling you and I 'Bill and Dave' lol. I don't think folk realise the importance of clearing the debt. Without clearing it, we can't move forward. I'm fond of all our players, but I don't think we would be much worse off if we let a few go in order to ease the pressure. I believe in Moyes' ability to rebuild. If we leave it too long though, the opportunity will diminish. I actually think we would be a better team without certain players as crazy as it sounds. I would gladly sell Arteta, Jagielka, Cahill, Saha, Yakubu, even Howard, and I don't think we would be relegation fodder by any means. Moyes could get a few lads in to make the numbers up, and we'd still be pushing top 8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoroBlue Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 Completely agree with what has been said, at the moment unless we can finish top 4 our situation is not going to improve, and at the moment we just aren't good enough. What we do have though is a very strong academy and youth set up and I think we need to take advantage of that. I don't feel we would be weakening ourselves significantly if we sell some of our fringe players like Heitinga, Bilyaletdinov, Anichebe, Yakubu and Yobo and use our young players to fill the gaps. Conservative estimate that lot would bring in 15-20mil and get 150k a week (Or 8mil per year) off the wage bill. Personally I would rather see Barkley playing centre mid than Heitinga (I know he is a centre back but we only ever seem to play him centre mid) I would rather see Gueye given a chance on the left instead of Anichebe (I know he is a centre forward but Moyes seems to fancy him as a winger) or even Bily, I would rather see Duffy given a chance at Centre back than bring Yobo back in the team, and I would rather see Vellios given ago than bring back the Yak. One other worry to me at the moment is the increasing age of our squad, because we have no money I think we need to be selling players while we can still get something for them and replaceing them with younger players, if we don't do that in a few years when they are worth nothing we will have no money to replace them. For example as much as I like Jags and Arteta if we could get the reported 25-30m for the 2 of them and replace them with say Gary Cahill and Pedro Leon for the same price we would have 2 players approaching there peak years rather than 2 coming to the end of there peak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 Alternatively... it can be argued that club has outgrown the current owners and it's they who cut their losses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus jones Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 Pete, they're going to start calling you and I 'Bill and Dave' lol. I don't think folk realise the importance of clearing the debt. Without clearing it, we can't move forward. I'm fond of all our players, but I don't think we would be much worse off if we let a few go in order to ease the pressure. I believe in Moyes' ability to rebuild. If we leave it too long though, the opportunity will diminish. I actually think we would be a better team without certain players as crazy as it sounds. I would gladly sell Arteta, Jagielka, Cahill, Saha, Yakubu, even Howard, and I don't think we would be relegation fodder by any means. Moyes could get a few lads in to make the numbers up, and we'd still be pushing top 8. Took the words right out of my mouth, but will David Moyes stick around if we have to do that? I don't think he will, surely he must be looking at teams like Stoke,Villa,Sunderland etc and think we must be the laughing stock of the league? Imagine a brain surgeon having to operate using whatever is in his wife's handbag? Because I liken that to the situation DM is in. Building a team again from nearly sctatch would make him walk, not that I would blame him.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 Took the words right out of my mouth, but will David Moyes stick around if we have to do that? I don't think he will, surely he must be looking at teams like Stoke,Villa,Sunderland etc and think we must be the laughing stock of the league? Imagine a brain surgeon having to operate using whatever is in his wife's handbag? Because I liken that to the situation DM is in. Building a team again from nearly sctatch would make him walk, not that I would blame him.. I don't think Davey would leave unless one of the top jobs in the game came up, and there are plenty of opposition for the vacancies should they occur. He knows the score, and though I'm sure he isn't happy about it, I think he would be loyal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 Took the words right out of my mouth, but will David Moyes stick around if we have to do that? I don't think he will, surely he must be looking at teams like Stoke,Villa,Sunderland etc and think we must be the laughing stock of the league? Imagine a brain surgeon having to operate using whatever is in his wife's handbag? Because I liken that to the situation DM is in. Building a team again from nearly sctatch would make him walk, not that I would blame him.. Tbh I think Moyes would prefer to rebuild with a core of players than keep doing this season after season. He looks drained by it all at the moment, and I think he would see a rebuild as a fresh new challenge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 We have no expensive stadium that we have mortgage No, we have an old stadium with 14 mortgages on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 The only problem is I might be a little too optimistic about our youth :/ and some of the players such a Bidwell, Garbutt, Hope, and Lundstrum might not make it Chances are none of them will make it. It us judged a success if one player from each age group makes it, that's looking like being Barkley. Don't get your hopes up on any other kids for a couple if years yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus jones Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 Tbh I think Moyes would prefer to rebuild with a core of players than keep doing this season after season. He looks drained by it all at the moment, and I think he would see a rebuild as a fresh new challenge. If someone could guarantee me by selling all the top players to pay off the debt we would still finish above relegation I'd bite their flamin hand off! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 (edited) If someone could guarantee me by selling all the top players to pay off the debt we would still finish above relegation I'd bite their flamin hand off! Well I recon we could certainly sell a bunch and we wouldnt be greatly effected. For example how much have Arteta, Cahill, Jags, Bily, Vic and possibly Rodwell contributed in the last 8/9 months? You would have to say not that much, they have had little spells, like Cahill before Chirstmas or Jags intermittently but I would predict that a youngster could do the same thing and not be much worse off. We finished a comfy 7th without those players not helping much, so I dont think around 10th-12th would be expecting too much. Edited August 22, 2011 by Bailey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalewoodBlue Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 Cant see the logic in selling our best players just to reduce a bit of debt. Makes no sense whatsoever, with the current squad we can still get top 7/8 and i would rather be watching that than a team full of kids struggling at the bottom and reduced debt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 ....with the current squad we can still get top 7/8 and i would rather be watching that than a team full of kids struggling at the bottom and reduced debt Even if it (potentially) secured the long term future of the club? Rather watch a bit of a dip and a rebuild than watch the club go into administration/bankrupt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus jones Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 So could we pay off 50% of the debt by selling our 5 most valuable players? I don't know how much we actually owe as a one off debt, maybe that would be a start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted August 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 So could we pay off 50% of the debt by selling our 5 most valuable players? I don't know how much we actually owe as a one off debt, maybe that would be a start. Its also about cutting the wage bill and bringing some financial stability to the club to make it more take over friendly. I think we would see a take over bid within a year if we manager to show some good figurer at the end of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalewoodBlue Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 Even if it (potentially) secured the long term future of the club? Rather watch a bit of a dip and a rebuild than watch the club go into administration/bankrupt. No guarantees of that whatsoever. What if the youngsters arent good enough and we go down? We have already secured money against our premier league status, with out that finance we wont able to repay it back and then its Leeds Mk11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.