MikeO Posted July 2, 2018 Report Share Posted July 2, 2018 11 minutes ago, holystove said: Mike, after all cycling went through it became common practice to, as a team decision, bench your rider when he gets caught. Sky didnt do that and created a lot of ill will towards them and Froome both amongst fans as in the peloton. If Froome was that obviously innocent as the UCI is making out now, he was just as innocent 9 months ago. What do cycling fans make of this sudden conclusion in such suspicious circumstances.. With the levels of Salbutamol of Froome he must be some asthma patient, its a joke and completely unbelievable that he needs this as a professional cyclist. Other riders banned for using Salbutamol were Pettachi, Trentin, Ulissi.. big names riding for big teams. I think by clearing Froome the UCI is trying to get past the issue of doping in cycling and they are scared of having to scratch his name from a lot of results, but they are going about it all wrong. Zero tolerance is the only way, otherwise some cyclists will always be looking for that edge. Your first assumption that he got "caught" is disproved by the fact that he's been cleared (innocent until proven guilty). He plainly was just as innocent nine months ago but the authorities needed time to investigate it before coming to that conclusion. His Salbutamol level was high for sure, which he's acknowledged; on one day out out probably several hundred that he's been tested on but those that know are satisfied that it was due to hydration levels, direction of the sun, whether there was an "r" in the month or whatever. Get over it Holy, you made the last eight in the football tonight so celebrate, one day you may even have a decent cyclist again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted July 3, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2018 9 hours ago, MikeO said: Your first assumption that he got "caught" is disproved by the fact that he's been cleared (innocent until proven guilty). He plainly was just as innocent nine months ago but the authorities needed time to investigate it before coming to that conclusion. His Salbutamol level was high for sure, which he's acknowledged; on one day out out probably several hundred that he's been tested on but those that know are satisfied that it was due to hydration levels, direction of the sun, whether there was an "r" in the month or whatever. Get over it Holy, you made the last eight in the football tonight so celebrate, one day you may even have a decent cyclist again. Innocent until proven guilty is not applicable in cycling; ever since the major doping scandals of Armstrong, Ulrich, Riis, etc etc. it is common practice to put a rider on non-active if his blood or urine show traces of a banned substance. He's innocent in so far as the UCI and WADA believe his excuses for using a banned substance. Every rider in history has had an explanation when caught, few have been believed. Remember Contador with his 0.0000000005 gram of Glenbulterol? He blamed it on steak, but was banned nonetheless. To be clear, I'm not angry with Froome or Sky for looking for an edge, I'm just extremely annoyed with UCI for not being consistent. The fight against doping is never over, and with Froome, instead of coming down hard on doping, they are sending a totally wrong signal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted July 6, 2018 Report Share Posted July 6, 2018 On 02/07/2018 at 20:08, MikeO said: Because the teams those riders rode for didn't have financial clout to employ the right people to get to the truth? @holystove like I said, UCI president... "Froome had more financial support to find good experts to explain the situation," Lappartient told BBC Sport. He said it was "a reality of life unfortunately" that the outcome of cases could be affected by the resources the rider involved is able to call on, with poorer teams less able to secure justice. "Maybe situations like this happened in the past," added the Frenchman. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/44739022 Surely someone in your line of work should be pleased that this possibility, for which very probably riders have been sanctioned wrongly in the past, has now been proved. Sky may have gone against previous protocol in not standing Froome down but they've been vindicated and set a precedent for future reference have they not? I think all cyclists, fans and teams should be applauding them for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted July 7, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2018 I am sorry, Mike, I don't think we'll agree on this. I can't imagine someone like Pettachi not having the same resources as Froome/Sky, so my initial reaction to Lappartient was why don't they just release the facts that vindicated Froome rather than say 'wow Froome had a really good legal team' (so did OJ). I know under a zero tolerance policy sometimes a penalty can be too harsh, but cyclists have yet to re-earn the right to be believed. The fact half the peloton suffer from asthma (including Froome) and therefor are allowed to use products like Salbutamol, is just one indication we aren't there yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted July 7, 2018 Report Share Posted July 7, 2018 3 hours ago, holystove said: The fact half the peloton suffer from asthma (including Froome) and therefor are allowed to use products like Salbutamol, is just one indication we aren't there yet. Explained here. It's not just cyclists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted July 7, 2018 Report Share Posted July 7, 2018 3 hours ago, holystove said: I am sorry, Mike, I don't think we'll agree on this. I can't imagine someone like Pettachi not having the same resources as Froome/Sky, so my initial reaction to Lappartient was why don't they just release the facts that vindicated Froome rather than say 'wow Froome had a really good legal team' (so did OJ). I know under a zero tolerance policy sometimes a penalty can be too harsh, but cyclists have yet to re-earn the right to be believed. The fact half the peloton suffer from asthma (including Froome) and therefor are allowed to use products like Salbutamol, is just one indication we aren't there yet. As someone who has no interest in cycling and thinks its like watching paint dry, Holy's post has clarified something for me. If half the peloton suffer from asthma, that must be why they all ride at a leisurely pace and only race over the final few hundred yards? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted July 28, 2018 Report Share Posted July 28, 2018 @holystove so now we have a non-asthmatic Brit winning the TdF, how do you explain that? Brilliant ride Geraint, top bloke as well; as was Froome for not having a hissy fit when his Sky number one status was removed, glad he got the podium place back today. Six wins in seven years after none in the previous history of the event is pretty astounding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted July 29, 2018 Report Share Posted July 29, 2018 On 07/07/2018 at 07:22, holystove said: I am sorry, Mike, I don't think we'll agree on this. I can't imagine someone like Pettachi not having the same resources as Froome/Sky, so my initial reaction to Lappartient was why don't they just release the facts that vindicated Froome rather than say 'wow Froome had a really good legal team' (so did OJ). I know under a zero tolerance policy sometimes a penalty can be too harsh, but cyclists have yet to re-earn the right to be believed. The fact half the peloton suffer from asthma (including Froome) and therefor are allowed to use products like Salbutamol, is just one indication we aren't there yet. If we went down the route you are suggesting you would be eliminating a lot of people from professionally taking part in a lot of sports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted July 30, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2018 On 28/07/2018 at 18:12, MikeO said: @holystove so now we have a non-asthmatic Brit winning the TdF, how do you explain that? Brilliant ride Geraint, top bloke as well; as was Froome for not having a hissy fit when his Sky number one status was removed, glad he got the podium place back today. Six wins in seven years after none in the previous history of the event is pretty astounding. He did very well; it was impressive how in the last kilometre of each mountain stage he managed to escape the group of favourites and gain another couple of seconds. I enjoyed this years' TdF, especially the short but incredibly tough mountain stage in the last week was a good idea I hope they bring back every year. To show the doubts around Sky and cycling, this op-ed ran in Flanders biggests newspaper last weekend: "32 year old Sky rider who previously had never finished better than 15th in Tour de France, Giro or Vuelta dominates this years' Tour de France." I agree with the author that it is somewhat odd but I assume if he isn'tt riding clean, Sky would give the same "stuff" to Froome and he didn't do that well this year so whatever it possibly is, it's not that great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted September 3, 2018 Report Share Posted September 3, 2018 Tour of Britain came through my village again today, they can't keep away; thinks it's about the sixth or seventh time in the last twelve years. I missed it because I had to take the wife to the dentist (right coward she is, insists on me holding her hand when she's getting an injection and does more damage than when she was giving birth) but Josh filmed it. Going to watch a bit of tomorrows stage myself because it's coming up through Cheddar Gorge which isn'tt a million miles away and should be entertaining; love to see a Grand Tour stage one day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted September 15, 2018 Report Share Posted September 15, 2018 https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/45535153 No doubt the odd Belgian will cast aspersions but a grand tour winner with no drug fuelled Sky association? Won't happen, except it did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted September 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2018 On 15/09/2018 at 21:37, MikeO said: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/45535153 No doubt the odd Belgian will cast aspersions but a grand tour winner with no drug fuelled Sky association? Won't happen, except it did. You make it sound like I'm anti-UK-cycling which I'm most definitely not. I'm am merely pro-clean-cycling, so here's how I look at it: - Froome: caught using banned substance - Thomas: won TdF aged 32 after, in his previous 13 years as a pro-cyclist (including his prime years), never having finished better than 15th in any majour tour. Suspicious. - Yates: great job, well done, thoroughly deserved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted July 20, 2019 Report Share Posted July 20, 2019 On 19/09/2018 at 08:28, holystove said: - Thomas: won TdF aged 32 after, in his previous 13 years as a pro-cyclist (including his prime years), never having finished better than 15th in any majour tour. Suspicious. Guessing you have the same suspicions about Alaphilippe about now; never before finished higher than 33rd and at 27 only been deemed worthy of two other Grand Tour starts (41st & 68th) but looking very likely to win this year. That's not suspicious it's miraculous, but they've not been far from Lourdes in the past couple of days so that would maybe explain it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryj Posted July 21, 2019 Report Share Posted July 21, 2019 4 hours ago, MikeO said: Guessing you have the same suspicions about Alaphilippe about now; never before finished higher than 33rd and at 27 only been deemed worthy of two other Grand Tour starts (41st & 68th) but looking very likely to win this year. That's not suspicious it's miraculous, but they've not been far from Lourdes in the past couple of days so that would maybe explain it. Must admit I’m sceptical. He never normally Contends for the TT top places and yet won the stage yesterday. Today I was convinced that Thomas would take a huge chunk out of his lead and yet he finished second. He’s not a natural climber so I can’t understand it. Thomas though didn’t look strong today but then neither did a number of other GC riders such as Porte, Quintana, Yates and Martin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted July 21, 2019 Report Share Posted July 21, 2019 15 hours ago, barryj said: Must admit I’m sceptical. He never normally Contends for the TT top places and yet won the stage yesterday. Today I was convinced that Thomas would take a huge chunk out of his lead and yet he finished second. He’s not a natural climber so I can’t understand it. Thomas though didn’t look strong today but then neither did a number of other GC riders such as Porte, Quintana, Yates and Martin. Smart money after today has to be on Thibaut Pinot; would be the first French winner in 34 years, the country would explode. Having said that he'll be a marked man now. Good to see another Brit stage win though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryj Posted July 22, 2019 Report Share Posted July 22, 2019 13 hours ago, MikeO said: Smart money after today has to be on Thibaut Pinot; would be the first French winner in 34 years, the country would explode. Having said that he'll be a marked man now. Good to see another Brit stage win though. I think you’re right Pinot has looked very strong on the climbs. I hope I’m wrong but Thomas just seems to be little off his best. Wonder how Froome would have done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted July 22, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2019 On 20/07/2019 at 22:03, MikeO said: Guessing you have the same suspicions about Alaphilippe about now; never before finished higher than 33rd and at 27 only been deemed worthy of two other Grand Tour starts (41st & 68th) but looking very likely to win this year. That's not suspicious it's miraculous, but they've not been far from Lourdes in the past couple of days so that would maybe explain it. Well, no. Alaphilippe is much younger than Thomas. He has been very good in the classics (especially the ones with steep climbs). He doesn't dominate the TdF (see yesterday's stage) in the same way Thomas did last year, even though competition seems to be weaker. I'm not stating as fact Thomas did anything wrong last year, I'm just saying it was very surprising and met with scepticism from a lot of journalists and cycling insiders. What Alaphilippe is doing this year is much more within the range of the possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted July 26, 2019 Report Share Posted July 26, 2019 On 21/07/2019 at 16:50, MikeO said: Smart money after today has to be on Thibaut Pinot... Shows nobody should take any notice of me, didn't see that coming! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted July 26, 2019 Report Share Posted July 26, 2019 1 hour ago, MikeO said: Shows nobody should take any notice of me, didn't see that coming! Or this, stage stopped, unfortunate for Alaphilippe but I think he'd have lost it anyway, might even have saved him a podium finish actually. Bernal going to win now. holystove 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted July 26, 2019 Report Share Posted July 26, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted July 6, 2021 Report Share Posted July 6, 2021 Eddy Merckx must be feeling nervous, really thought Cavedish was finished, wasn't even going to ride the thing this year but came in when a couple of guys got injured. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/57729678 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted July 9, 2021 Report Share Posted July 9, 2021 On 06/07/2021 at 17:26, MikeO said: Eddy Merckx must be feeling nervous, really thought Cavedish was finished, wasn't even going to ride the thing this year but came in when a couple of guys got injured. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/57729678 He's equalled it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted July 9, 2021 Report Share Posted July 9, 2021 8 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said: He's equalled it now. Yeah was watching, hopefully he'll break it on the Champs-Élysées next weekend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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