The Peoples Group

[pax]

Take a look at this article which breaks down most of the issues of Bill - http://www.toffeeweb...le.php?ID=10219

 

Its pretty comprehensive. So unless you are waiting for Bill to say he is a poor chairman and is misleading the fans, well then I hope you never sit on a jury.

 

I think Bill does want Everton to do well. But he has proven to be inept at best as a chairman. Other than hitting the lottery with Moyes to manage the team on a budget he has not helped the team. Does he need to go, as chairman yes. As a partial owner, I don't care. But the board members do not seem to want a share issue to raise funds and just to get a cash infusion while staying in power. That is what needs to change.

 

I did state no speculative media reports ! So there are no facts, just speculation. I don't deal in speculation, i deal in cold hard facts and if they are not there, i reserve judgement till they are.

Are you suggesting that a jury should convict someone based on flimsy evidence, suggestions and speculation? What a legal system that would be. I'm not sure if you know this, but a jury can't convict someone if they are 99.9% sure someone did it. 99.9% sure someone did it is innocent.

 

You know one thing that does astound me about the anti Kenwright brigade is the constant suggestion that his decision to hire Moyes was by way of a 'lottery'. It really lowers your credibility when someone can't give praise where it's due.

 

You all miss one vital aspect of all of this. David Moyes, consistently tells the supporters and the media that Bill Kenwright is a fantastic chairman to work with and for. He couldn't wish for a better chairman and that other clubs should look upon Everton with envy for having such a Chairman.

 

This is a man who works with Bill 24/7. Who knows the truth about everything that goes on at Everton. Who could quite easily walk out on Everton and find himself a job at other clubs who the anti Kenwright mob deem to be in a far better position that Everton. It seems David Moyes doesn't agree with the anti Kenwright sentiments at all, he doesn't agree with anything you lot have been saying.

 

The only response to this you can have is to make up fables about the mindset and intentions of David Moyes. Which, as we all know, is not even worth writing down is such rubbish.

 

So, i'm inclined to side with our Manager and a man i trust when it comes to Kenwright and the Board.

Edited July 11, 2011 by pax

[pax]

Top post, did you often watch tranmere on a Friday night with a cup of bovril?

 

No, never. Good attempt at humor but lacking in anything credible.

 

Now where have i heard that before

[marcopaulo]

I did state no speculative media reports ! So there are no facts, just speculation. I don't deal in speculation, i deal in cold hard facts and if they are not there, i reserve judgement till they are.

Are you suggesting that a jury should convict someone based on flimsy evidence, suggestions and speculation? What a legal system that would be. I'm not sure if you know this, but a jury can't convict someone if they are 99.9% sure someone did it. 99.9% sure someone did it is innocent.

 

You know one thing that does astound me about the anti Kenwright brigade is the constant suggestion that his decision to hire Moyes was by way of a 'lottery'. It really lowers your credibility when someone can't give praise where it's due.

 

You all miss one vital aspect of all of this. David Moyes, consistently tells the supporters and the media that Bill Kenwright is a fantastic chairman to work with and for. He couldn't wish for a better chairman and that other clubs should look upon Everton with envy for having such a Chairman.

 

This is a man who works with Bill 24/7. Who knows the truth about everything that goes on at Everton. Who could quite easily walk out on Everton and find himself a job at other clubs who the anti Kenwright mob deem to be in a far better position that Everton. It seems David Moyes does agree with the anti Kenwright sentiments at all, he doesn't agree with anything you lot have been saying.

 

The only response to this you can have is to make up fables about the mindset and intentions of David Moyes. Which, as we all know, is not even worth writing down is such rubbish.

 

So, i'm inclined to side with our Manager and a man i trust when it comes to Kenwright and the Board.

 

must say mate you have breathed some new life into this board in last week or so

[Lowensda]

must say mate you have breathed some new life into this board in last week or so

 

Seconded dude!

[Hafnia]

I did state no speculative media reports ! So there are no facts, just speculation. I don't deal in speculation, i deal in cold hard facts and if they are not there, i reserve judgement till they are.

Are you suggesting that a jury should convict someone based on flimsy evidence, suggestions and speculation? What a legal system that would be. I'm not sure if you know this, but a jury can't convict someone if they are 99.9% sure someone did it. 99.9% sure someone did it is innocent.

 

You know one thing that does astound me about the anti Kenwright brigade is the constant suggestion that his decision to hire Moyes was by way of a 'lottery'. It really lowers your credibility when someone can't give praise where it's due.

 

You all miss one vital aspect of all of this. David Moyes, consistently tells the supporters and the media that Bill Kenwright is a fantastic chairman to work with and for. He couldn't wish for a better chairman and that other clubs should look upon Everton with envy for having such a Chairman.

 

This is a man who works with Bill 24/7. Who knows the truth about everything that goes on at Everton. Who could quite easily walk out on Everton and find himself a job at other clubs who the anti Kenwright mob deem to be in a far better position that Everton. It seems David Moyes does agree with the anti Kenwright sentiments at all, he doesn't agree with anything you lot have been saying.

 

The only response to this you can have is to make up fables about the mindset and intentions of David Moyes. Which, as we all know, is not even worth writing down is such rubbish.

 

So, i'm inclined to side with our Manager and a man i trust when it comes to Kenwright and the Board.

 

You deal in facts and truth? Yet you support a chairman who is referred to as Billy liar? See fortress fund, £30m ring fenced for kings dock etc.

 

Moyes is hardly going to criticise a man who handed him a contract making him one of the highest paid managers is he?

[pax]

You deal in facts and truth? Yet you support a chairman who is referred to as Billy liar? See fortress fund, £30m ring fenced for kings dock etc.

 

Moyes is hardly going to criticise a man who handed him a contract making him one of the highest paid managers is he?

 

Who refers to him is Billy Liar? Our manager David Moyes? No. Any of the players? No. Anyone connected with the running of the football club? No. I've never heard that name used once, but maybe that's because this is my first foray onto an Everton forum and those who like to call him that type of name can't get into the pubs around Goodison Park due to licensing laws.

 

So just the anti Kenwright brigade who form their opinions and 'facts' on media speculation and propaganda. Wow, well that has shown me hasn't it.

 

You don't think Moyes could get a better contract with a club that isn't broke and that would hand him a transfer kitty? A consistently successful, young premiership manager with experience that has over achieved wouldn't be in demand and wouldn't get a better contract somewhere else? Do you live in cloud cuckoo land?

 

Oh and can you point out where i said i 'support' Bill Kenwright, that would be great. Just so everyone knows you don't make things up to suit your own argument and all.

Edited July 11, 2011 by pax

[pax]

See fortress fund, £30m ring fenced for kings dock etc.

 

 

Why don't you just tell me about it? What don't you give me every single detail about it? Details and facts that haven't come from a speculative media article.

 

Looking forward to it.

[inertia8]

Well you've certainly picked what I consider to be the most level headed, respectable forum to be your first.

 

NSNO and GOT offer the occasional good read but there's a hell of a lot of Anti-Board/Kenwright sentiment on those sights, with a good dash of aggressive replies to anyone who has a differing opinion about any aspect of the game, club, players etc.

 

I normally look out for posts from LCAB and Shorty and largely ignore the rest, though the new supply of Honey Badger pics/quotes is amusing

[Romey 1878]

I normally look out for posts from LCAB

 

 

I wish he'd talk in English so I could understand wtf he's talking about though.

[pax]

We don't need someone to come in and spend £500m we don't need a new stadium. We need someone to come in and pay off the debts and let the club run on it's own profits and give it maybe five years of solid debt free running, then consider the stadium issue. Goodison is not falling down!

 

In the mean time I'd just be happy if bill stepped down as chairman, stay on the board as a director, and maybe let carter sit as chairman until a possible buyer comes along. It would at least reduce a bit of the strain coming bills way.

 

1) If we want to compete for a Champions League place consistently, then take a look at what the likes of Liverpool, Man City, Cheslea, Arsenal, Tottenham, Man Utd are spending and then tell me we don't need a new stadium for increased revenue and we don't need a large cash injection for players.

 

2) What are Everton's profits without debt? Then tell me how we would consistently qualify for Europe on those profits when the teams around us are spending vast sums in comparison.

 

3) Goodison Park is not falling down (yet), but it doesn't make much money and the whole point of a new stadium is to increase the match day revenue. See The Emirates Stadium for a perfect blueprint of how this works.

 

4) You want our club to not have a Chairman? You want our Chairman who has an incredibly good relationship with the best manager this club has had in years and our best assest to step down and be replaced by no one. Jesus f'ing Christ

[Lowensda]

I wish he'd talk in English so I could understand wtf he's talking about though.

 

I'm glad that i'm not the only one. It's like reading riddles!?

[Romey 1878]

I'm glad that i'm not the only one. It's like reading riddles!?

 

 

It's like he's on crack. And he talks like he's American. It seriously makes my brain ache reading anything from him.

[Hafnia]

Who refers to him is Billy Liar? Our manager David Moyes? No. Any of the players? No. Anyone connected with the running of the football club? No. I've never heard that name used once, but maybe that's because this is my first foray onto an Everton forum and those who like to call him that type of name can't get into the pubs around Goodison Park due to licensing laws.

 

So just the anti Kenwright brigade who form their opinions and 'facts' on media speculation and propaganda. Wow, well that has shown me hasn't it.

 

You don't think Moyes could get a better contract with a club that isn't broke and that would hand him a transfer kitty? A consistently successful, young premiership manager with experience that has over achieved wouldn't be in demand and wouldn't get a better contract somewhere else? Do you live in cloud cuckoo land?

 

Oh and can you point out where i said i 'support' Bill Kenwright, that would be great. Just so everyone knows you don't make things up to suit your own argument and all.

 

ooohh get the new boy, couple of complements and he's giving it cloud cuckoo land shouts. You'll be doing Phil Neville step overs next.

 

So you are saying that he never stated that £30m for kings dock was ring fenced? and that he didn't lie???

 

Have you read any minutes from the AGM's?

 

The fortress fund, chris samuelson, NTL, Kirby (goodison will lose it's safety certificate?) - you want facts so go and google.

 

http://www.kenwright.com/index.php?id=936

 

Moyes has been the highest paid manager in the premier league outside the top 4. Tell me, where could he go and earn more money if that is the case?

 

It's not about supporting the chairman, it is appraising his ability to run a football club.

[StevO]

Jesus fuckin Christ yourself pax!

I'm looking at it from the angle that there is no one out there willing to throw half a billion at us and we could continue to progress in a more stable mannor with someone who just came in with £100m.

If you want to know evertons profits without debt take a look at the clubs accounts they have been published online. I've not seen my shareholder copy yet, they go to my fathers business address and as of June I don't live local anymore.

Also, calm down a little mate. I'm worried you might hurt yourself if you carry on and I'm not sure louis has got the health and safety file up to date.

[pax]

ooohh get the new boy, couple of complements and he's giving it cloud cuckoo land shouts. You'll be doing Phil Neville step overs next.

 

So you are saying that he never stated that £30m for kings dock was ring fenced? and that he didn't lie???

 

Have you read any minutes from the AGM's?

 

The fortress fund, chris samuelson, NTL, Kirby (goodison will lose it's safety certificate?) - you want facts so go and google.

 

http://www.kenwright.com/index.php?id=936

 

Moyes has been the highest paid manager in the premier league outside the top 4. Tell me, where could he go and earn more money if that is the case?

 

It's not about supporting the chairman, it is appraising his ability to run a football club.

 

Save the 'new boy crap' for someone who cares and is childish to think it's clever, there's a good lad

 

This really has become like spoon feeding blended food to a baby. You have no clue, no clue at all about the Kings Dock deal and what did or didn't happen. It wouldn't surprise me if the £30 million would have been available, from an outside investor interested in invested in this type of project. You haven't got a clue why that didn't happen? So why pretend you do?

 

Yes, i do read all the information from the AGM's. What is your point or what specific part of it do you need help with?

 

Stop spouting media speculation and anti Kenwright propaganda as fact. I do hope i won't have to tell you this again, but i fear i will, many times.

 

I think Spurs, Newcastle, Sunderland, Celtic, Rangers, Liverpool, Villa, Man City and some European sides would all have been clubs interested in paying Moyes a large wage and appointing him manager. Anyway, it's a slight stupid argument as far as i am concerned as i don't believe Moyes is a football manager purely for money.

 

You clearly think the sole reason David Moyes is manager of Everton is his wage? Yes? I personally think that sort of opinion is tragic.

 

You are not in a position to appraise anything, let alone what sort of job Kenwright is doing at Everton. Absolutely amazes me how ill-informed people can truly believe they have a valid and credible opinion.

[pax]

Jesus fuckin Christ yourself pax!

I'm looking at it from the angle that there is no one out there willing to throw half a billion at us and we could continue to progress in a more stable mannor with someone who just came in with £100m.

If you want to know evertons profits without debt take a look at the clubs accounts they have been published online. I've not seen my shareholder copy yet, they go to my fathers business address and as of June I don't live local anymore.

Also, calm down a little mate. I'm worried you might hurt yourself if you carry on and I'm not sure louis has got the health and safety file up to date.

 

Who on earth suggested i was even remotely excited? You must be the first the person alive to able to accurately sense tone and manner from the written word

 

Oh, we just need a person to give us £100 million without any chance of a return. Dear me, why didn't you say so. Now that's easy, there will literally be hundres of people forming a line outside Goodison willing to hand over the measly sum of £100 million.

 

Everton is saved, StevO has saved us all with his cunning plan and well thought out financial strategy.

 

By the way, if you don't know what Everton's profits would be after debts have been cleared, why did you state all we need is someone to clear the debts and run the club off the profits?

[StevO]

Just had a little read back, you started off defending but you've jumped at me for trying to be a little cautious financially and you are saying we need to spend champs league money on players. For the record, when man u, man c, Liverpool, arsenal, Chelsea, spurs, villa, Blackburn have all got quite a bit of cash, throw us into the pot with the imaginary billionaire, who will be in Europe?

[Hafnia]

Jesus fuckin Christ yourself pax!

I'm looking at it from the angle that there is no one out there willing to throw half a billion at us and we could continue to progress in a more stable mannor with someone who just came in with £100m.

If you want to know evertons profits without debt take a look at the clubs accounts they have been published online. I've not seen my shareholder copy yet, they go to my fathers business address and as of June I don't live local anymore.

Also, calm down a little mate. I'm worried you might hurt yourself if you carry on and I'm not sure louis has got the health and safety file up to date.

 

Steveo I don't know whether google works in ten feet deep of sand.

[StevO]

It's clear you have no sense of business knowledge pax or you would understand any debt free business has much more chance of turning a profit simply due to lower expenses.

 

Take a look at how Stoke with a smaller stadium and similar size corps manages to have a larger transfer kitty.

 

Bored now, this is all conversations most of us on here have had many times over

 

Some people do not want to take the time and find the facts out for themselves, just spout that the facts do not exist because they are not advertised.

 

Lots of people on here have spent the time doing the digging, going to AGMs and reading annual accounts to understand the ins and outs.

 

If you want to know facts louis has posted pretty much all of them often with links to the documents in question. Take a look through the pages and find some very useful info hidden away in TT.

 

I'm Gunna read something else for a while, I need a break.

[Hafnia]

It's clear you have no sense of business knowledge pax or you would understand any debt free business has much more chance of turning a profit simply due to lower expenses.

 

Take a look at how Stoke with a smaller stadium and similar size corps manages to have a larger transfer kitty.

 

Bored now, this is all conversations most of us on here have had many times over

 

Some people do not want to take the time and find the facts out for themselves, just spout that the facts do not exist because they are not advertised.

 

Lots of people on here have spent the time doing the digging, going to AGMs and reading annual accounts to understand the ins and outs.

 

If you want to know facts louis has posted pretty much all of them often with links to the documents in question. Take a look through the pages and find some very useful info hidden away in TT.

 

I'm Gunna read something else for a while, I need a break.

 

[pax]

Just had a little read back, you started off defending but you've jumped at me for trying to be a little cautious financially and you are saying we need to spend champs league money on players. For the record, when man u, man c, Liverpool, arsenal, Chelsea, spurs, villa, Blackburn have all got quite a bit of cash, throw us into the pot with the imaginary billionaire, who will be in Europe?

 

No, i am saying to qualify consistently for the Champions league we need the type of investment that other clubs have. I also stated that unless we un-earth a Rooney type player every 3-4 fours then we will make no money at, not even money to consolidate our current position without a new stadium as there is no other way of generating income.

 

I don't understand your sentence that starts 'For the record', could you explain your point again.

[pax]

Steveo I don't know whether google works in ten feet deep of sand.

 

Does it work ten feet deep in the The Sun, The Star and Evertonian conspiracy theorists

[pax]

It's clear you have no sense of business knowledge pax or you would understand any debt free business has much more chance of turning a profit simply due to lower expenses.

 

Take a look at how Stoke with a smaller stadium and similar size corps manages to have a larger transfer kitty.

 

Bored now, this is all conversations most of us on here have had many times over

 

Some people do not want to take the time and find the facts out for themselves, just spout that the facts do not exist because they are not advertised.

 

Lots of people on here have spent the time doing the digging, going to AGMs and reading annual accounts to understand the ins and outs.

 

If you want to know facts louis has posted pretty much all of them often with links to the documents in question. Take a look through the pages and find some very useful info hidden away in TT.

 

I'm Gunna read something else for a while, I need a break.

 

Where did i state a debt free business doesn't have more of chance of turning profit? I do wish people like you would refrain from making things up and putting words in my mouth. Try to be a little bit more grown up about things and refer what i actually said to your points, not what you want me to have said but didn't.

 

Clearly you are business genius with huge amounts of knowledge and i don't need to tell you that a smaller stadium, modern stadium can generate more match day revenue than an older larger stadium. Stoke are also no operating on their profits, their owner, bet365 money subsidises their available funds.

 

I completely agree. All the anti Kenwright brigade don't actually want to know the facts, the spout utter drivel that can't be proven. You are yet to prove anything you have suggested. Which is interesting.

 

Accounts, AGM's and 'digging' will not give anyone access to the real facts. Ironically, that is a fact. I would have thought an experienced business person such as yourself would have known these things.

 

Louis has posted all the facts? Would you care to list them for me and next to each one provide the evidence that makes them a fact and no simply speculation.

 

Not surprised you need a break, still trying to prove the US government were behind 911 ?

[pax]

 

This is the level of your contribution? Putting a laughing smiley at someone else's post that is full of absolute rubbish? At least he has something to say for himself which is more than can be said for some.

[Blue 250]

This is the level of your contribution? Putting a laughing smiley at someone else's post that is full of absolute rubbish? At least he has something to say for himself which is more than can be said for some.

 

 

 

 

 

I just had to do it

[StevO]

Haha pax read what you and I have both said, if I am guilty of putting words in your mouth or making things up then you are also!

 

I also said we have over the years gone through this stuff before, and I have seen the documents here for myself so I shall not be listing them. If you wish to see you can scroll through the years of topics here to find them.

 

And come on, accounts do actually show the facts. They are a legal document! Information given at AGMs & EGMs given to share holders is also portrayed BY THE CLUB as fact.

 

And I'm still unsure how you would like me to prove my ideas for how the club could be improved without a new stadium. If it is an idea I have had, how would you like me to prove it? A brain even as genius as mine can not prove an idea. Can you prove my ideas would not benefit the club? Either way we would need £100m to prove each other wrong.

 

The way things have been done around here for a long time is when people can see they can not change another persons opinion is we agree to disagree. I will not agree with your opinions but you are entitled to them. So I agree to disagree with you, though I'm not sure what I'm actually disagreeing with as i can not see your view point after all your posts.

 

You do seem like quite a character and your obviously passionate about the blues too so I hope you do stick around. Just wait until transfer deadline day, you'll fuckin love it!

[Hafnia]

This is the level of your contribution? Putting a laughing smiley at someone else's post that is full of absolute rubbish? At least he has something to say for himself which is more than can be said for some.

 

Find your whole approach tiresome, confrontational and pedantic. You are losing whatever credibility you have with each and every post. You want hard facts and make statements such as "Essien 3 times better at everything than felliani" - sorry but expect

 

Practise what you preach.

 

For the record the majority of people on this forum disagree on many topics which is great, the manner in which you want hard facts when faced with clear issues facing the club which can be attributed to the chairman and the board is plain daft.

 

You clearly can't see that the asset stripped state of our club has happened under Bill and Co's reign. Three training grounds sold, failed investment opportunities, two failed stadium moves - one of which was voted against, the other was the biggest missed opportunity in the clubs history.

 

You talk about the need for investment? Well that search has been ongoing 24/7 for the past 11 years - bit of a failure there me thinks. Is the club for sale? certainly wouldn't do any harm to know for how much? considering the only assets we have are the playing staff the board can't be expecting a massive amount or is that the problem?

 

as steveo says, welcome to the forum and all that jazz, but yep pipe down a little - we're all friends here

Edited July 11, 2011 by Hafnia

[StevO]

Haf, I didn't know we were friends. I feel all warm inside! Haha

[Louis]

Haf - "asset stripping" is technically the wrong term. asset stripping is usually when someone comes in and buys a company, takes their best assets and sells on the company or lets it fold. The most high-profile example I can think of is when BMW bought Rover, took the "Mini" brand and letting Rover perish.

 

What's happened during the Kenwrightian era is that assets have been sold off and the money has been put into the pot for players' wages/transfer funds. The exception is Bellefield which was originally to be sold to fund the Kirkby stadium, then, when the scheme collapsed, it was used to settle a debt. The assets remaining are used as security for bank loans.

 

Pax - I'd be interest to know what you think are not facts. Everton accounts are published on Companies House website so you can see them there, as are loans, their amounts, their rates and length of term.

[Hafnia]

Haf - "asset stripping" is technically the wrong term. asset stripping is usually when someone comes in and buys a company, takes their best assets and sells on the company or lets it fold. The most high-profile example I can think of is when BMW bought Rover, took the "Mini" brand and letting Rover perish.

 

What's happened during the Kenwrightian era is that assets have been sold off and the money has been put into the pot for players' wages/transfer funds. The exception is Bellefield which was originally to be sold to fund the Kirkby stadium, then, when the scheme collapsed, it was used to settle a debt. The assets remaining are used as security for bank loans.

 

Pax - I'd be interest to know what you think are not facts. Everton accounts are published on Companies House website so you can see them there, as are loans, their amounts, their rates and length of term.

 

Meant utilisation, but cheers for putting me right.