Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Gwlad all over

F1 Chat

Recommended Posts

does the start of the season show that ferrari are at a total loss without Brawn running the show?

everyone seems to be backing BrawnGP, i dont want them to cover the car with sponsors though, it looks great as it is.

 

 

Brawn wasn't there last season I don't think and they did fine then.

 

I'm backing Brawn though, it's a good story.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Im backing Brawn this year, like mark said its a good story, would be great to see Button win the title. Im a fan of Hamilton but Mclaren are pissing me off more and more with the way they are going about their business.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I turned the race on just as they had stopped. Jenson was sitting in 1st place and I was wondering what the hell was going on. It wasn't long before the camera's went round the circuit showing how much rain was being put down. I'm supporting Button this season because he's British and down the the fact that he's on that Brawn and making history.

 

Never really liked Hamilton and have got even more pissed of with him and his team for what they've done this season. Once one team starts to challenge them they go down the path of cheating...pathetic? I guess not much of it is down to Hamilton but I guess he gets the bad press all the same as McLaren do.

 

Did anyone see the supporters during the race being abandoned? There was a hill on the side of the Sepang circuit where four lads were sliding down on their backs. Our camera's caught it all, great to watch. :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

McLaren have sacked Dave Ryan (spot the scapegoat) and have been summoned to appear before the FIA on 29th April.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport...one/7988471.stm

 

How they can sack Ryan after 35 years but do nothing to Hamilton when they both stood before the stewards in Australia and backed each other up is beyond me. It's bullshit, we're supposed to believe Hamilton is the little boy just going along with it!? Stinks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
McLaren have sacked Dave Ryan (spot the scapegoat) and have been summoned to appear before the FIA on 29th April.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport...one/7988471.stm

 

How they can sack Ryan after 35 years but do nothing to Hamilton when they both stood before the stewards in Australia and backed each other up is beyond me. It's bullshit, we're supposed to believe Hamilton is the little boy just going along with it!? Stinks.

 

 

He won't be a little boy lost when the FIA get hold of him Mike, his lying arse won't touch the ground :angry:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The limit on funds allowed to the teams to develope their cars levels the playing field a bit and it shows now that Ferrari and McClaren are not as talented as we were all led to believe.

 

Good for the "smaller" teams I say. I will be happpy as Larry if Brawn win the title.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Speculation that Anthony Hamilton has...

 

..struck some sort of ’plea bargain’ (with Max Mosley) which would see Hamilton granted amnesty against further action in exchange for ’coming clean’.

He's also said to be furious that Lewis' integrity has been called into question.

 

So if he didn't lie and his integrity is intact what does he have to come clean about :huh: ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ross Brawn not looking a happy man after coming out of the diffuser hearing today....

 

Reporter "Did you get a fair hearing?"

 

Brawn (stoney faced) "No comment I'm afraid."

 

Hmmm....can understand him not commenting on what he thinks the verdict will be but to refuse to acknowledge that it had been fair is mighty worrying :( .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Flavio Briatore is like a poor batch of wine, full of sour grapes. This man is the major shareholder in QPR, enough said he is becoming an expert loser and sounds like it as well :P

Mate of mine's a big QPR fan, apparently Briatore is playing the "I pick the team" card, even phoned from Malaysia at half time a couple of weeks back to instruct the manager on substitutions :rolleyes: .

 

Brawn would have won a dry race yesterday, but I like Vettel a lot so good for him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

how can he critisise the other teams for winning?

the reason ferarri, mclaren & renault aren't at the top of the tables is because they have simply not been good enough! buck your ideas up and catch them up, or take your loses with dignity!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
how can he critisise the other teams for winning?

the reason ferarri, mclaren & renault aren't at the top of the tables is because they have simply not been good enough! buck your ideas up and catch them up, or take your loses with dignity!

 

SteveO, I don't think you understand just how much this technology affects a car's performance. The implementations FIA made this year were in order to level the playing field, so that all teams would be more on equal grounds than previously, where the big names like williams, renault, mclaren and ferrari dominated.

 

The limitations that were imposed were designed to facilitate overtaking, because the cars would be less aerodynamic, but this dissipator pretty much circumvents that, allowing for a faster air dissipation and a smaller succion effect behind them, meaning faster turns and the overtaking effect is essencially negated.

 

What these 3 teams did was, by a now clearly visible flaw in the lettering of the law, circumvented it altogether.

 

But don't worry, teams like ferrari, mclaren and renault will pretty soon have their own copied dissipators, smaller teams won't, because they don't have the proper funds for a fast introduction, but by then it'll probably be too late.

 

I like Button, a lot more than I like Hamilton, that's for sure, but the fact is, that simple piece of technology allows pilots to go 0,5 to 1 second faster, and the laws FIA introduced were to level the playing field.

 

Of course, the big guns that are complaining, I don't doubt for a second they'd have used it as well, if they'd come up with the idea and had it legaly tested to the limits, like these did, so yeah, in that regard, it's hipocrisy on their part, but the effect it has on the sport is not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SteveO, I don't think you understand just how much this technology affects a car's performance. The implementations FIA made this year were in order to level the playing field, so that all teams would be more on equal grounds than previously, where the big names like williams, renault, mclaren and ferrari dominated.

 

The limitations that were imposed were designed to facilitate overtaking, because the cars would be less aerodynamic, but this dissipator pretty much circumvents that, allowing for a faster air dissipation and a smaller succion effect behind them, meaning faster turns and the overtaking effect is essencially negated.

 

What these 3 teams did was, by a now clearly visible flaw in the lettering of the law, circumvented it altogether.

 

But don't worry, teams like ferrari, mclaren and renault will pretty soon have their own copied dissipators, smaller teams won't, because they don't have the proper funds for a fast introduction, but by then it'll probably be too late.

 

I like Button, a lot more than I like Hamilton, that's for sure, but the fact is, that simple piece of technology allows pilots to go 0,5 to 1 second faster, and the laws FIA introduced were to level the playing field.

 

Of course, the big guns that are complaining, I don't doubt for a second they'd have used it as well, if they'd come up with the idea and had it legaly tested to the limits, like these did, so yeah, in that regard, it's hipocrisy on their part, but the effect it has on the sport is not.

 

What you say is of course correct S4E but that technology has proven to be legal. Briatore is actually showing his poor sportsmanship with the comments he has made....................why moan when they have done nothing wrong, the answer lies with the man rather than the technology

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

exactly - no rules were broken. not button, barrichello or brawns fault that other teams didnt work this one out as well as they did. hes making out they should say sorry for winning races!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What you say is of course correct S4E but that technology has proven to be legal. Briatore is actually showing his poor sportsmanship with the comments he has made....................why moan when they have done nothing wrong, the answer lies with the man rather than the technology

 

exactly - no rules were broken. not button, barrichello or brawns fault that other teams didnt work this one out as well as they did. hes making out they should say sorry for winning races!

 

Well, yes and no. The tech is indeed legal, but it's a loophole, so to speak. They used the letter of the law, not the spirit. I'm not saying they were wrong, it's FIA's fault, for not seeing what might come out, especially when the teams started to really make sure they weren't breaking the law, just bending it as far as it would go.

 

As for Briatore's remarks, I agree. If his team had come up with the tech, he'd use it in a heartbeat, like ferrari and all the others, and they know it too, which is why they aren't bitching like this.

 

But that doesn't change the fact that, when the other teams like mclaren, renault and ferrari get their dissipators in working condition, the championship will probably be settled, and FIA's plans to level the race track, as it were, were completely ruined by this. It's not the team's fault, it's FIA, for leaving enough room for this to happen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a much more level playing field this year than last as it stands, so in that respect the new rules have worked perfectly. Red Bull don't have the split level diffuser and they seem to be coping :) .

 

Also, Ross Brawn attempted to point out the loophole at a constructors meeting months ago and no-one was interested, said they wanted the rules left as they were.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It's a much more level playing field this year than last as it stands, so in that respect the new rules have worked perfectly. Red Bull don't have the split level diffuser and they seem to be coping :) .

 

Also, Ross Brawn attempted to point out the loophole at a constructors meeting months ago and no-one was interested, said they wanted the rules left as they were.

 

Rain races are always a coin toss ;)

 

Didn't know about that meeting...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Rain races are always a coin toss ;)

 

Didn't know about that meeting...

 

The Red Bull's were very close to Brawn in qualfying though, which was dry. They're good cars with good drivers (Vettel in particular).

 

The meeting was actually more than a year ago (http://www.patronisef1.com/index.php/f1-ne...-about-loophole) and Mike Gascoyne, who was working for the BBC on Sunday in the absence of Eddie Jordan, was there and confirmed what Brawn had said.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Red Bull's were very close to Brawn in qualfying though, which was dry. They're good cars with good drivers (Vettel in particular).

 

The meeting was actually more than a year ago (http://www.patronisef1.com/index.php/f1-ne...-about-loophole) and Mike Gascoyne, who was working for the BBC on Sunday in the absence of Eddie Jordan, was there and confirmed what Brawn had said.

 

Just read it. In all fairness he didn't say there was a loophole, he said that the rules could be made simpler, and that would have cleaned up a lot of issues. ;)

 

but I get his point, he made his pitch regarding the problem with the law, and they didn't listen, so it's not his fault.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Amazing that only 1.4 seconds cover the whole field in second practice for Bahrain. Also amazing that the five slowest are..

 

16. Ferrari

17. Sauber

18. Ferrari

19. McLaren

20. Sauber

 

What a change in fortune!

 

Race (and grid) still likely to be between Brawn and Red Bull though :) .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Toyota front row, then Vettel, Button & Hamilton.

 

Toyota and Vettel will be light on fuel I'd have thought, Hamilton could get a flyer with KERS on board but I still think Jenson's the favourite. Hamilton could be in with a shout though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Toyota front row, then Vettel, Button & Hamilton.

 

Toyota and Vettel will be light on fuel I'd have thought, Hamilton could get a flyer with KERS on board but I still think Jenson's the favourite. Hamilton could be in with a shout though.

 

Hamilton will win only to have his points taken away on Thursday :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hamilton will win only to have his points taken away on Thursday :rolleyes:

Unlikely I don't think....he's not personally charged with anything....but possible.

 

Toyota's are light, particularly Glock....got four laps less fuel than Button & Hamilton (who both have the same amount).

Trulli a couple of laps less than the Brits but Vettel is carrying more! Got probably three extra laps on them.

He's beginning to look like a hugely impressive driver!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Faultless drive from Jenson, very impressive.

 

Agreed Mike but in a perverse sort of way so was Hamilton's effort in a much slower car.................he is proving he can drive as well. Why Ferrari haven't got it right yet is baffling me

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ferrari spitting their dummy out big time.

guess they arent so confident in a level playing field.

 

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12433_5317968,00.html

 

How is it that creating 2 different sets of rules is considered a level playing field?

 

What the new regulation intends is, the teams that keep operating as before have the same regulations has before, but teams that limit their budget to £40 million will have diferent rules, technological advantages over the others. Is this a level playing field?

 

And by the way, even though only Ferrari has made this bold statement, they're not alone. Toyota, BMW-Sauber and Red Bull are also against this new regulation, not to mention that EVERYONE is against the new rule of only awarding points to the race winners.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
capping the budget is making more of a level playing field than they currently have.

 

They're not capping the budgets. They're giving tech boosts to the teams that stay under 40 million. That's creating w sets of regulations. And Renault have gone public also saying that they will not join next year if the new regulations go into effect.

 

If Bernie pushes, and those teams don't back down, how interesting is gonna be to have an F1 without BMW, Renault of Ferrari?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are several potential new teams who'd come in if the cap is put in place.

 

Renault are really only notable for introducing turbo cars in the seventies and then a very short history as Benneton in the last decade....BMW were nothing more than engine suppliers until 2006. Neither would be a great loss.

Ferrari would be sad, but it would harm them more than F1 imo. There's nowhere else for them to go unless they set up a rival formula.

 

Going back people would have said that Alfa Romeo, Ligier, Tyrrell, Lotus & Brabham were irreplacable F1 marques but the sport goes on happily without them :) .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
so F1 cant be exciting without big names?

its bigger than ferarri and renault. its about the teams who do turn up, not the teams that dont.

 

There are several potential new teams who'd come in if the cap is put in place.

 

Renault are really only notable for introducing turbo cars in the seventies and then a very short history as Benneton in the last decade....BMW were nothing more than engine suppliers until 2006. Neither would be a great loss.

Ferrari would be sad, but it would harm them more than F1 imo. There's nowhere else for them to go unless they set up a rival formula.

 

Going back people would have said that Alfa Romeo, Ligier, Tyrrell, Lotus & Brabham were irreplacable F1 marques but the sport goes on happily without them :) .

 

It's not a question of excitement or not. If Ferrari, Renault and Toyota bail out, that leaves BMW and Mercedes as engine manufacturers. IF they go, what engines are they gonna use?

 

Besides, right now, half the teams are poised to force the issue, Ferrari is already considering joining the Le Mans circuit.

 

And if those teams, or the entire FOTA (formula 1 Teams Association) desides to create a championship of their own, or join another, even if teams take over for the ones that left, you're gonna have a lot less engines, plus it's gonna make a lot less money, both in advertising and TV rights, not to mention the new competition arrising from whereever those teams go to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ok, a long standing formula will suddenly die because the teams decide to just start their own. so after the FIA get involved in the new formula, how long until these ideas come back again.

if its that simple i guess the only problem in formula 1 is bernie eccleston?

its a fucking joke.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2009/05/14/...-piero-ferrari/

 

I think this article reflects Ferrari's ideas regarding this new regulation...

 

I don't think it's Bernie or Max's fault, but doing things without consulting with the teams, and without their approval, is wrong. And, since the teams have the ability to decide whether they'll participate or not, and that their presence is important, it stands to reason that they should be a part of the process.

 

As things are now, half the teams have come out against this new regulation, and if Ferrari and Renault do indeed go through, I don't see the others backing down either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are Ferrari not being a little hypocritical here..

 

"...if we are on the starting line of a Grand Prix, we have to stay within the same regulations, the same technical specifications."

They're quite happy to run KERS as an optional system (giving themselves a technical advantage) while other teams that don't have the resources to have developed it go without.

There was a "two tier" championship of a sort in the seventies when Renault (then others) ran with 1.5l V6 turbo engines against the 3l normally aspirated ones, they all ended up at pretty much the same pace.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Are Ferrari not being a little hypocritical here..

 

"...if we are on the starting line of a Grand Prix, we have to stay within the same regulations, the same technical specifications."

They're quite happy to run KERS as an optional system (giving themselves a technical advantage) while other teams that don't have the resources to have developed it go without.

There was a "two tier" championship of a sort in the seventies when Renault (then others) ran with 1.5l V6 turbo engines against the 3l normally aspirated ones, they all ended up at pretty much the same pace.

 

That's not the point. The point is, if they want to create a budget cap, make it a limit for everyone. If they want to create a tech limit, (like nascar and others) do it for everyone. This 2 rule system is not only much more contrevertial, it's nigh impossible to enforce properly.

 

So if FIA allow for these loopholes to exist, they should try and fix them, not create the possibilities for more loopholes to form and be exploited.

 

You mentioned optional systems, and then there's the tech lingo that allowed this dissipator crisis, so to, it's quite simple, create regulations that limit what they want to limit, because more gaps and divisions won't help.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ferrari have had that appeal thrown out by the French courts, quite rightly IMO. The capping idea has to be a good one in the present financial climate as too many team would be left without hope due to the vast wealth of a few.................now where else could this apply???????? :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ferrari have had that appeal thrown out by the French courts, quite rightly IMO. The capping idea has to be a good one in the present financial climate as too many team would be left without hope due to the vast wealth of a few.................now where else could this apply???????? :D

 

A limit on spending IS a good idea, but properly implemented, not creating 2 set of rules for those that can and those that can't. And in football, how would you apply it?? Teams under the cap would play with 12, or start with a goal in the net already?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
A limit on spending IS a good idea, but properly implemented, not creating 2 set of rules for those that can and those that can't. And in football, how would you apply it?? Teams under the cap would play with 12, or start with a goal in the net already?

 

 

What would Ferrari prefer SL, a total cap for all teams or this. The basic rule of thumb here is that if they are so good then surely work within the cap at which point they would be on an equal footing with everyone else but it seems that they rely on a financial advantage which they wish to maintain via the courts, tough shit IMO.

 

In this country rugby league is governed by capping and works well, how would Benitez, SAF et a go on if they had the same money as say Tony Pullis at Stoke.......................would they be the same lauded managers, I doubt it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What would Ferrari prefer SL, a total cap for all teams or this. The basic rule of thumb here is that if they are so good then surely work within the cap at which point they would be on an equal footing with everyone else but it seems that they rely on a financial advantage which they wish to maintain via the courts, tough shit IMO.

 

In this country rugby league is governed by capping and works well, how would Benitez, SAF et a go on if they had the same money as say Tony Pullis at Stoke.......................would they be the same lauded managers, I doubt it.

 

 

Don't know if you read the link I posted earlier, but it says basically that. They're not opposed to a budget cap, they're opposed to 2 different sets of rules beeing applied. It's not the cap, it's the fact that it's optional, and that teams that go for it have a different set of rules to go by, and tech advantages the other teams don't.

 

So, like I said, imagine the same beeing applied to football. If your budget is bellow X, you can play with 12 players. Doesn't seem so fair now, does it?

 

Of course, without knowing exactly what the tech advantages would be a direct comparison like this is impossible, but it does give you the general idea.

 

And don't forget, a lot of people see this as a temper tantrum from ferrari, but they forget that toyota, red bull, toro rosso and renault are also against this rule, and renault have already said that they won't be in the next season. That leaves 2 engine manufacturers, bmw and mercedes, which is probably not enough for the whole teams.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Don't know if you read the link I posted earlier, but it says basically that. They're not opposed to a budget cap, they're opposed to 2 different sets of rules beeing applied. It's not the cap, it's the fact that it's optional, and that teams that go for it have a different set of rules to go by, and tech advantages the other teams don't.

 

So, like I said, imagine the same beeing applied to football. If your budget is bellow X, you can play with 12 players. Doesn't seem so fair now, does it?

 

Of course, without knowing exactly what the tech advantages would be a direct comparison like this is impossible, but it does give you the general idea.

 

And don't forget, a lot of people see this as a temper tantrum from ferrari, but they forget that toyota, red bull, toro rosso and renault are also against this rule, and renault have already said that they won't be in the next season. That leaves 2 engine manufacturers, bmw and mercedes, which is probably not enough for the whole teams.

 

 

At no point do the laws say they have to spend over the cap, if they do it is their choice.................for that reason the civil law action would always fail. I support what the FIA have done

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
At no point do the laws say they have to spend over the cap, if they do it is their choice.................for that reason the civil law action would always fail. I support what the FIA have done

 

Any regulation that says that there's a budget cap, but only if you want it, leads to 2 sets of rules. If they want to limit spending, this is not the way to do it.

 

I agree with regards to the civil suit, it would always fail, but that's just a propaganda thing by ferrari, I think. Likewise, I also agree with limited spending, but not like this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Going to be an interesting qualifying in Monaco (in about 45 mins).

 

Final practice the big boys were fighting back, only two tenths of a second covering the first seven drivers...

 

Alonso

Button

Kovalainen

Barrichello

Massa

Raikkonen

Hamilton

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Button on the most important pole of the season, nice one Jenson, Hammo back in 16th

Chances are that Raikkonen will take the lead at the start though because he's next to Jenson with KERS at his disposal :) .

 

Fuel load will then decide it, all things being equal.....if Jenson can run longer that Raikkonen he should take it. Barrichello also may get another flyer from third. Hugely impressive from Button though.....again....pulled that lap seemingly out of nowhere.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Chances are that Raikkonen will take the lead at the start though because he's next to Jenson with KERS at his disposal :) .

 

Fuel load will then decide it, all things being equal.....if Jenson can run longer that Raikkonen he should take it. Barrichello also may get another flyer from third. Hugely impressive from Button though.....again....pulled that lap seemingly out of nowhere.

 

 

That lap astonished everyone, including Button himself Mike :D

 

Years ago we were involved in a crash on the Monoco course.......................I kid you not, the bus we were in (well you didn't think I had a race car surely :lol: )had a mercedes go right up its arse. The police wanted to drag the bus driver off to nick and it wasn't his fault. They even tried to arrest me because I had taken my top off, it was sweltering and I flashed my man tits everywhere (they weren't so big then :lol::lol::lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×