Sideliner

I actually think Tony Pulis is playing more progressive football than we are at the moment.

He has zero footballing intelligence then. Well that is just a brilliant quality for a midfielder. You could say phenomenal.
 
Desire to get back behind the ball and into position? Christ, that's funny. Ross shows an extreme lack of desire to do either of those things 99% of the time. Martinez gave him zero instructions at a time when it was crucial for him to learn. And by learning I don't even mean the defensive side, I mean footballing knowledge in general. He's never going to get that time again so I do genuinely fear he won't even come close to what he was capable of.
 
He's a big problem for us and probably always will be until we sell him or he retires. He's not clever enough to be a creative player and he's too weak in the mind to play at the top it seems. He needs psychological help because he has the tools, just not the mind.
 
If we do get rid of him I'll be one of the gutted ones because I've always wanted and backed him to succeed.

I would like to see Deulefeu starting in at least 5 matches in a row -
He needs match practice/fitness - to show his true ability -
I still believe he has the potential to be a much better player than he is at the moment -
Same but to a lesser extent applies for Mirallas

I don't know why people think him having more instructions would help as he looks like he has trouble tying his laces.
 
The problems with Barkley are all between his ears. He needs help with his defensive positioning but a lot of that is about his desire to get back behind the ball and into position more than anything. Martinez let him get away with not putting in the effort to defend but he did the right thing in not trying to force him into rigid instructions.

I know it's not, but to say others need to bring him into the game is just mad! It's not like he doesn't have the ability to do it, he's got it in bucketloads but he just doesn't look like he's got the mentality for it. So he either sorts it out or we see him as a lost cause. The position he plays for us is an important one and if he isn't doing the business, blue or not, then we can't afford to keep giving him a go.

Barkley is supposed to be the one creating, bringing other people into the game. It's not anyone else's job to bring him into the game ffs!
 
If someone else needs to bring him into the game then that's a huge problem and says a lot about Barkley, not anyone or anything else.
 
If he can't do it then we need to bring in someone that can.

He should be bringing himself into the game. That's what he's there to do.

Steve, as always, bringing some sanity!
 
No Davies (or Deuolofeu, I would add) in favor of a bench that for the most part lacked creativity and the ability to hold onto the ball. As a result, when McCarthy came off, it was either going to be Cleverley (light-weight but useful enough with the ball) or Barry (strong, but too slow to keep up with the pace of the derby). And, taking Valencia (already a square peg in a round hole) off for another striker (whose use of the ball and ability to retain possession aren't exactly his strong suits) forced to play the wing and defend was another poor decision that could've been averted. Mirallas made the most sense, considering the bench we had and what was needed. But, again, a player like Davies (who can do the dirty work and move the ball) or Deulofeu (who doesn't do much dirty work, but uses the ball well, stretches play and requires attention) would've been great options. Instead, we had two backup right backs.

Keep him for what mate? Just being Johnny on the spot? A supposed £60m player needs to be able to do the basics and he can't. He worked hard last night but his quality is shite.  
Forget his size and everything else that you see, watch him as a football player. He's a liability. Time after time the ball comes back at us when all we ask him to do is control it and lay it off. Our midfield and defence had no respite last night. He is the out ball and can't look after it.
 
A new number ten behind rom isn't going to alleviate the issue of Rom not being able to bring the number 10 into play. The better the number 10 the more likely they will be to expect sharper passing and ability to control their snappy interplay.
 
The longer we keep him the quicker his valuation will fall.
 
I seen Coleman despair at him last night. Not for the first time either. The team is not strong enough to carry a player who is effectively a poacher playing in a target man role.
 
His passing accuracy was 45% again last night. Gana was 85%.... it's unacceptable.

We need 2 forwards and a number 10 like coutinho, technical, sharp in mind with the ability to run the lines and interchange effectively.
 
January can't come quick enough.
 
 
Players to sell:-
 
Lukaku - £50m, just get the sale done. Tremendous finisher when that's all he's asked to do. His overall game exposes the team far too often. It's not all about him but for a player to have such a value yet leaves us vulnerable to counter attack after counter attack can't be mitigated.
 
Cleverley:- £7m.... ideal player for a Burnley. Not a top half team.
 
Mccarthy:- if these injuries keep happening then he has to go. He's been great of late too. Get Schneiderlin in. Made of glass nowadays.
 
Barkley:- if a team offers £40m then it may be time for a fresh start. I believe he has it to become a great player but maybe that will be away from the frustrations of those expecting so much. He lacks the mental strength to be the local great hope.

we either need to play with two up top or get rid of Rom. He's just not a hold-up player because of his poor touch, not because of his size, considering his size he should be able to hold the ball well. He's great running into space with a head of steam but can't play with his back to goal. And he doesn't play for the team. He was a bit better tonight pressing but still not that great, watch a guy like Costa and see the difference. Good goal scoring record for sure but a bit flattering considering the overall package and what was paid for him.
 
I thought the ref was unfair, they were flopping a bit and exagerating and aggressive towards Dean. Lovren was already on a yellow and he did everything Coleman did but wasn't booked for shoving precisely because he was already cautioned. The only argument was perhaps that Coleman came from a long way away.
 
disappointing but expected, hate to say it.

Very poor sub, the game was crying out for Mirallas. Their cbs are rubbish, and given far too easy of a day. Non of our players got close enough to Lukaku to cause problems.

Is anyone surprised. Soon as I saw the 8 minutes go up I fucking knew they'd score in it the fucking horrible jammy twats.
 
I fucking despise the horrible cunts. I'm not even angry or shocked I just knew it was going to happen.
 
We're not good enough, they're a much better side than us and they are much fitter which is a double whammy. We had a bit of bad luck but Barkley should have walked. Lukaku is isolated we have zero creativity, Barkley was utterly dreadful. We're fucking clueless.
 
Another Derby defeat, it's taking the piss now.

If he plays, he should be deeper, when mcarthy went off he should have dropped back and Kev should have come on, i don't think he has the brain to be a decent no 10, he can only drive at players and that won't work around the box it's to crowded!

How was the goal Robles fault?
 
McCarthy getting injured was massive. We pretty much all said it and Barry was never involved. It's mad, if he comes on we have to change the way we play, have to, but we kept the same thing.
 
I am really surprised that we used Ross that high up the pitch. He should have been deeper like he was again Arsenal not almost playing the Cahill role in a 442.
 
The sub of Barry was an odd one in that we didn't change anything and the DCL sub was stranger. Mirallas will be spitting ffeathers and so will Gerry. DCL isn't a winger, he almost cost us the game against Arsenal when he was nervy. He did what he could when he came on but he was never getting us up the pitch.

This Liverpool is a fit side - they are lasting much better and deserves to win - we have been piss poor in 2nd half

Ross Barkley has a 50% pass rate so far with no chances created - not good enough for our creative midfielder

What's with this Martinez defence? We have to work our socks off to get to Liverpool's penalty area, yet we give them a free pass to get to ours. When they get possession we just drop off and let them play. They were always first to the second balls all game, including the goal. Mori had our best chance in the first-half, free header from the edge of the six yard box, should have scored.

Our team hasn't got the stamina to play 98 minutes. This goal was absolutely logical. We were poor most of the second half. Barkley was a disgrace to watch. Subbing Valencia and keeping Lennon and Barkley was a very stupid decision.

Far fitter than us. Better ball retention up front which means they sustain attacks.
 
If people want to query my assertion that strikers need to retain the ball up front then this is why. You have seen what that ability has done to us.

Not sure DCL was the man for this occasion. Looks a bit out of position to me and we have no possession to help him

It worries me how tired as a team we have been this 2nd half. Lazy touches, shit passing, poor control, giving away daft free kicks...all signs of tiredness to me.

That mane is a player....
 
Young Calvert-lewin ain't ready for this.

I don't get it. Mirallas was the pick for me.

Fuck all wrong with him fucking cunt