MikeO

I'm sorry Iggy but someone had to do it :| .

Won't do any good, counter-productive if anything by bringing more attention to it....and there's no doubt he does it.

Gladly swap seat with you Iggy mate. My sofa is very comfortable....I'll even throw in the beers for free !

But then again appearances can be deceptive....thankfully . http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport...one/7996698.stm

Completely respect your point of view JD, and if every religious person had the same doubt, tolerance and humility you show I'd have no problem with religion and neither would the world. Sadly that's a million miles from being the case.

Ross Brawn not looking a happy man after coming out of the diffuser hearing today.... Reporter "Did you get a fair hearing?" Brawn (stoney faced) "No comment I'm afraid." Hmmm....can understand him not commenting on what he thinks the verdict will be but to refuse to acknowledge that it had been fair is mighty worrying .

Thanks all. I have decided this will be my last birthday for several years. I "stuck" for a long time at 29 and 49 seems to me to be another good point at which to take an extended moratorium. Bring on the dancing girls .

So anyway. You decide you believe in God, maybe it comes to you in a dream or you're brought up with it or whatever, doesn't really matter. First pick your religion, many to choose from but we'll take Christianity because it's nominally the religion of the UK. Next what church? Again many to choose from but for the sake of this I'm going for the Baptists (because they're the only ones I have any direct experience with...another story). Now what sort of Baptist would you like to be? Anywhere from happy clappy hippy to those lovely Westboro people in Kansas. You make your decision based on what your faith tells you (as JD says and I've no reason to doubt him) and you immediately find yourself in a minority, but your faith tells you you're right, and so everyone else must be wrong. That I find arrogant....an exaggerated view of your own importance...it may not be a conscious thing but to believe so totally (faithfully) that you are right and everyone else (the vast majority) is wrong is for me is an arrogant view. Is Brad Friedel a Christian? If so did God make a snap decision when the ball left Pienaar's foot who was currently the most devout? Maybe I'm misinterpreting what Pienaar's trying to say, and Lewis Hamilton when he claims God's in the car with him (which he's actually stopped saying for some reason), it's very possible but the impression I get is that people are thanking God for helping them win/score....you don't hear them thank Him when they lose do you? So I find it embarrassing, can't help it, just do. Another thought, if you have absolute faith in your own beliefs is it not a bit patronising to be tolerant of alternative views? You know they're wrong, shouldn't you be true to yourself and tell them rather than humouring them? Perversly in that respect extremists like Westboro are more honest aren't they? "....you don't agree with me, you're wrong and you're going to hell." I like to think I live a good and decent life because I believe it's the right way to be. If I get to the gates and St Peter says, "OK Mike you've been a real good guy but you didn't say 'God is great' twice a day so you're going to burn" then so be it. I don't really think I want anything to do with a God who works that way anyway. I want my kids to love me but I don't need them to shout about it constantly to prove it. Think describing myself as an athiest was a bit wide of the mark...I don't think the existence of God to be impossible, just hugely improbable....as to the superstition thing I've always had it (never claimed to be sane). Raced cars to lamp-posts as a kid, had to be in another room in the house before the toilet stopped flushing....not at all sure of what would have happeed if I failed. That's where I am at the moment. Please consider any questions I've asked in this as rhetorical, don't expect anyone to agree with me...I'd be amazed if they did. Anyway I'm done with this thread, it hurts my brain . As long as you're content in your own skin and your beliefs don't hurt anyone else good for you. And I'll take as much embarrassment as Steven wants to heap on me next Sunday and for the rest of the season with a huge smile on my face!

...you believe. I don't. No problem (not "pulling you up," just having my own opinion ). No falling out here Jim. You're completely entitled to that viewpoint (see how reasonable we athiests can be )....I'll clarify why I use the word later, but no time now because I have to go to Bath to watch my kid brother get shackled to his better half .

1. Because that's what we were talking about. 2. Don't I? I didn't say that anywhere. 3. Yes. 4. I haven't. 5. Didn't say that either. I've only offered my opinion. I've not suggested anyone's wrong (or uneducated) for what they believe, no-one needs to go and look at themselves in the mirror. I'm sorry if my views offend you, yours don't offend me....and nor do anyone elses (that have been stated on here)...I thought Christians were supposed to be tolerant . And point taken JD, you can't argue with faith and I gave up trying many years ago.

I'd have a lot of respect for him if he had a, "Well God made a right pigs-ear of that one!" layer on underneath for when he misses . Or maybe the keeper could have a, "My God's bigger than your God!" one for when he makes a stunning save in the top corner. The possibilities are endless.. "God should have made me play it square for TC because Jo was unmarked at the near post." "Sorry for the miss, God's carrying a slight hamstring strain." Sorry .

Luton out of the football league today only seventeen years after dropping out of the top flight. A fine example for Newcastle to follow .

Fully appreciate your position on the matter JD and your research is proven time and again to be second to none. My "research" was a quick glance because I felt Jim was being a bit dimissive of Maghull's point. But, in the true spirit of one man's ceiling is another man's floor, "theological writings of dubious accuracy" and "'facts' based on sketchy or non-existent evidence" pretty succinctly sums up the Bible in my opinion , so to use it as a basis of fact to disprove another theory is fairly meaningless for me. Incidentally, "people taking claims that are totally unsubstantiated and accepting them as if they were undisputed facts" nicely sums up religion for me. But there we are. Maybe I'm missing something, maybe not....I'll find out soon enough. And I don't find anyone elses beliefs embarrassing, just occasionally the way they express them....the same could as easily go for other's sexuality, gay people are fine with me but I'd find excessive public displays of affection embarrassing, just as I would heterosexual ones come to that.

With all the horrors in the world I find it toe curlingly embarrassing that any sportsman (American sprinters thanking god for their medals started it all off) feels it appropriate to thank god for their meaningless and pointless (in the grand scheme of things) effort. If the supreme being is wasting his time looking after his followers as they hop, skip and jump to world domination then he's a pretty piss-poor deity imo....one or two other little matters he may want to attend to first; war, famine, disease, starvation....that sort of thing. The arrogance of christians thinking he's on their shoulder giving them a hand I find embarrassing because for it to be true you'd have some horrifically laughable heavenly nepotism going on and any god involved in such behaviour should be the one taking a good look at themselves . Priorities you hugeness!

Many thanks for that mate. I gave him a swerve anyway because he sounded wrong from the start but it's good to have it confirmed.

Wasn't presenting it as fact. Was just pointing out that there may be reason for some to come to the conclusion that it comes from Pagan rites, I could link half a dozen sites that'd support that view but I won't bother . It matters nothing to me, each to his own God (or otherwise). But I have to say I find it toe curlingly embarrassing when Pienaar lifts his shirt to proclaim "God is Great," presumably for giving him the strength to score. The idea that, should a supreme being exist, he's going to spend his time making "his" gang score more and run faster than the others I find totally absurd.

That's lucky because there's no way he'd want to take such a big step down in class .

The festival of Pasch, or the Passover, was very early observed by many professing Christians, in commemoration of the death and resurrection of Christ, although it cannot be traced back as far as the Apostles. But Pasch was observed by Christians a full month before the festival of Ishtar was celebrated by the Pagans. In addition, the festival of Ishtar (Easter) now observed in churches is far different from the original festival of Pasch. The amalgamation of the Christian Pasch, as observed in Britain by the Christians, and the Pagan Easter enforced by Rome, occurred by violence and bloodshed. But at last, the Festival of the Anglo-Saxon or Chaldean goddess, Ishtar, came to supersede that which had been held in honor of Christ.

I've gotta go and eat with my in-laws after this....I'm gonna be a gibbering wreck .

Pienaar does his bit to keep the day Christian....

F'king hell . Great one for the neutrals...I'm hating it.

You beauty!!

Current Player of the Year standings.... Jagielka 215 Arteta 164 Fellaini 159 Baines 137 Cahill 128 Osman 102 Neville 89 Pienaar 85 Howard 62 Saha 62 Lescott 53 João Alves Jô 38 Rodwell 29 Gosling 26 Anichebe 21 Castillo 20 Baadhi 17 Hibbert 16 Yobo 12 Vaughan 11 Yakubu 10 Van der Meyde 10 Baxter 4 Jacobsen 3 Valente 2 MOTM winners.... Blackburn (H)...Mikel Arteta West Brom (A)...Leon Osman Portsmouth (H)...Leighton Baines Stoke City (A)...Tim Cahill Standard Liege (H)...Segundo Castillo Hull City (A)...Leon Osman Blackburn (A)...Louis Saha Liverpool (H)...Phil Jagielka Standard Liege (A)...Phil Jagielka Newcastle (H)...Leighton Baines Arsenal (A)...Marouane Fellaini Manchester United (H)...Marouane Fellaini Bolton (A)...Marouane Fellaini Fulham (H)...Phil Jagielka West Ham (A)...Louis Saha Middlesbrough (H)...Phil Neville Wigan (A)...Tim Howard Spurs (A)...Phil Jagielka Aston Villa (H)...Joleon Lescott Man City (A)...Tim Cahill Chelsea (H)...Leon Osman Middlesbrough (A)...Mikel Arteta Sunderland (H)...Mikel Arteta Macclesfield (A)...Leighton Baines Hull (A)...Mikel Arteta Liverpool (A-league)...Leighton Baines Liverpool (A-Cup)...Phil Jagielka Arsenal (H)...Tim Cahill Manchester United (A)...Tim Howard Liverpool (H-Cup replay)...Phil Jagielka Bolton (H)...João Alves Jô Aston Villa (H)...Mikel Arteta Newcastle (A)...Jack Rodwell West Brom (H)...Steven Pienaar Blackburn (A)...Phil Neville Middlesbrough (H)...Marouane Fellaini Stoke City (H)...Marouane Fellaini Portsmouth (A)...Leighton Baines Wigan (H)...Marouane Fellaini

Was posted while you were off Jim, have a look back to Post #4576 is this thread .

I am horribly superstitious....if we lose and I discover I've been wearing the wrong shirt I take the blame . And I've seen the film but not read the book :oneeyed01: . Surprised no-one's posted the teams... Aston Villa: Friedel, Luke Young, Davies, Knight, Shorey, Milner, Petrov, Barry, Ashley Young, Agbonlahor, Carew. Subs: Guzan, Sidwell, Delfouneso, Salifou, Reo-Coker, Gardner, Albrighton. Everton: Howard, Hibbert, Lescott, Jagielka, Baines, Osman, Neville, Cahill, Pienaar, Fellaini, Jo. Subs: Nash, Van der Meyde, Castillo, Saha, Jacobsen, Rodwell, Gosling.