Hafnia

I'm only guessing but any agent worth his salt would make sure that there were caveats within the deal that meant any progress made by Rodwell would be rewarded. £25k a week would be just the start, an England call up etc would probably see him in the Arteta, Cahill, Yak bracket. The lad seems to be level headed and at this moment I would imagine his main goal is getting more first team games, developing and becoming the player we know he can be. Van der meyde was put on mega bucks because he was a dutch international who had played for Ajax and Inter. In terms of pay structure at the club things do need to improve, that all comes from increasing our revenue = stadium improvements and champs league footy. These are the players that can make that happen.

They should not be considered for sale unless an amazing to good to be true offer is made (£50m Rodwell, £20m Pienaar - seriously), the reason being in usual circumstances we do not yet possess the ability to attract players of their quality when pursued by other top 4 clubs, so why would that change if we were to sell them. To look at this you properly we need to look at who is in their class. Pienaar for me is up there with the best attacking widemen in the business from an all round point of view. He is not up there with Riberry, Ronaldo, Di Maria from an all out attack point of view, but he more than makes up for this with his work rate for the team, let's just say I wouldn't swap him for Valencia and he went for £16m - nor would we have got Valencia when Utd's interest became apparent. So in effect it is unlikely we could replace him. Rodwell is almost without comparison, put bluntly he is going to be a mainstay in the England midfield for year to come, Gerrard, Lampard - if a club had the opportunity to go back in time and buy them at 19 years old, how mnuch would they pay? £60m would be a snip given the return over the years. The two aforementioned names will be on the decline fromk now on in, the likes of Rodwell and Milner will be the main men in the middle for their country. We should not even contemplate selling them, the money we would get in would be likely spent on lesser quality players, which means we will still be plodding along trying to get in the sky 4. Imagine if we still had a certain Man United player mixing it with Arteta, Pienaar, Rodwell, Fellaini, Jags, alongside the Yak or Louis - you would be looking at league contenders - alas we needed to sell him. We do not need to sell Rodwell or Pienaar so therefore we shouldn't.

Speaking to none other than John Ebbrell week before last and he said he sees a revolution of smaller midfielders coming back into the reckoning after the days of patrick viera type players ruling the roost for years. There is some credit to this, look at Barca, yes they have a big man in toure to break up play, but ultimately the team needs clever and quick feet to make things happen. It is no surprise that with Pienaar and Arteta back in the team together, Ossie is looking more at home if anything looking like he is about to play some of the best football of his career. To answer the thread, the player/s that should come in would be a pure pace outlet either on the flanks or up front as an option - plus maybe a right wing back - someone with 2 years left to allow coleman to mature mentor him. Players to leave.... none, there is a good unit and togetherness in that team and if we had the squad size we need we would be higher up the table. We have a good blend of youth and experience. p.s Senderos can finish his loan.

Against a physical team like Bolton he came on and jinked his way in box and layed up for Pienaar - saleable asset? depends on how much other teams value our unfashionable Ossie - He is to us what Benayoun is to Liverpool but Ossie is better IMO. Would they class Benayoun as a saleable asset? No, he is someone who gives them another option, lack of options is shortsighted, well worth keeping as a one club player. Tremendous blue - keep proving them wrong Ossie Sorry folks, clicked into tab 2 not realising this episode was over!!!!

1. Arteta (by a country mile)in terms of cost, talent, worth to team)- better player than Rooney was for us, would have been great to see them together. 2. Pienaar 3. Jagielka 4. Lescott 5. Cahill

Looks to have all the attributes physically which is a great start, there have been many players who have had these attributes who just never made what they should have done, with players up to and including the likes of adriano. We have Anichebe who let's face it is a tremendous athlete, as is Joseph Yobo. I'm sure if you looked at Nyarko you would say the same. Beckford at Leeds is a strong pacey player, but by all accounts needs a few chances to score. The biggest test is mentality, to be a Drogba you need to be a winner, someone with ice in their veins who can finish when only getting one or two chances a game - or when the pressure is high. This I think is when they reach the 'will they, won't they' stage - to spend £15m before then is a gamble. Drogba was a very late developer in terms of reaching his potential - Chelsea spent £25m plus on a proven european goalscorer. Got to say though, seeing someone of this type of promise is what keeps the game great, I hope we can get some sort of deal arranged where payments are based on achievements, certainly having an iconic Belgian playing for us will mean that he knows who we are. The only way we are going to have a true world class under 25 striker playing for us is if we bring them through the ranks or we take a gamble on someone like him.

Moyes has been a great manager in the fact he has given us stability without being majorly funded. How many managers would achieve what he has done with the funding he has. He is praised readily and criticised readily, which I don't subscribe to. One day he will be a top class manager, and yes that means that he does make mistakes and will continue to do so, he is a defensive manager which many seem to be frustrated with, I think he is learning all the time. Has Moyes taken us as far as we can go? You need to look higher up the chain.

He isn't worth £3m. If he had a brain he would be worth £20m. All the attributes are there physically, mentally i'm afraid not. That's the art of defending, reading the game.

Get rodwell on in place of billy. He can mark moutinho. Osman on right donovan on left. I would take jags on in place of senderos just to organise.

Does anyone really think that Jack would want to go at the moment??? Everything is right for him to stay for at least 4 years - by then who knows where we will be - champs league regulars? Why leave when: 1. He has seen what has happened to Rooney's status among fans for wanting to go when the fans are clearly intent on him staying a blue. 2. He has a better chance of regular first team action. 3. We are in a better position than we were when Rooney was here. I would be very very suspect if by some reason Jack is sold, he has made it clear he is happy - the only way a sale will happen is if the board see fit to sell for the money that would be offered. Then we will have to hope we can develop another potential England Captain - cos we sure as well ain't gonna be in the financial position to buy or lure one! Everything the lad does at the moment is under the microscope and magnified, his bad pass against sporting, his goal against utd. Just gotta take the rough with the smooth, not get disheartened when a mistake is made and not too carried away when something great is done. He is coming along at the rate everyone had hoped for from when he was playing above his years in the academy, therefore there is no reason he can't reach his touted potential of the new Steven Gerrard - so therefore I ask - what price would make you sell? - if Liverpool sold Gerrard for todays equivalent of £30m when he was 18 would you say that was good business given what he has done for them? You need to keep the best players if you want your team to do well, simple as that.

Yep seen that pass lat night, get rid I thought he was meant to be a future great. Up for £6m, in fact first one in can get Pienaar for £6m too. That's £12m to spend on hhhhmmmm let's see...... John O'shea? Well we got them both for a combined cost of £2.5m so it's good business. OK just being arsey. Strange title to a thread IMO - he's 18 and looked the most mature early season, let him learn. I want to see him make a few more mistakes, you don't become great without learning from mistakes. Personally I see him as a ball winning/playing centre mid, we can buy a centre half who can win ball, pass to Jack to build up play from the back. Less we talk about him the better, just let him develop and hope we keep him, a two footed classy midfielder, English, aged 18, other clubs would go mad for him if we were looking to sell.

Problem is he is in his last year, I thought we were in the business of not letting our better players get within 2 years of their contracts? Regardless, any talk of him being worth £6m due to no end product is outrageous, he always has an end product, whether it be a pass to a team mate, a run further up field and a give and go or on the odd occasion a goal. His value to the team is immense, compare him to Bily in terms of work rate, positional sense, showing for the ball, not even comparable. I will be gutted if we lose a player of his quality. He is worth parity with the Yak, and let's face it, he will know how much he is on.

stupid, just clear it and take the clean sheet!!!!

I'm prepared to go with the expert opinion of him. 14 out of 20 premier league managers identified him as the young player set to take the league by storm. Before being over played and injured he was certainly playing better than most in an under performing team. Speaking to an ex professional player, he saw Jack play when he was 13 and knew straight away he was going to be class, the reason being he is more two footed than any player he had seen at that age, his athleticism and brain combined make a very very good player. What we see at the moment is not what he is going to be, he still has time to fill out and he will get better and better. Having a player who can switch play using either foot from a central position is an awesome weapon, lampard and gerrard don't have the ability to do that in a natural way, albeit their right pegss are very strong. I will be gutted to see another homegrown player of unknown potential leave the club.

Speaking to a city fan, I explained that we could effectively turn bog standard centre halves into multi million pound players just by playing them with Jags - which is why they ended up going for Joleon. It's kind of like the Gravesen / Carsley scenario. The one with the goals gets the plaudits, the organiser is the one who makes them look good. My guess is that when fit and they play Johnny next to Jags, teams will start looking at Johnny (hope not cos I like him). Jags will cover, Johnny will attack. Anyhow, neither Moyes nor Bill turned Joleon into a £24m player - City's ridiculous money did that. If we were to be offered the £15m I think he was realistically valued at, no one would have thought it represented great value till they seen his performances for city. Just really hoping that Jags gets back to his old ways would we have conceded goals like the ones against Liverpool, Arsenal etc? Very unlikely. It will be interesting to see what happens to players values when the market sorts itself out. My guess is that there will only be players in the bracket of Kaka, Ronaldo, Rooney, Messi, Aguero that will go for mega money and that leaves Barca, City and Real in the running, even Man U willl have to re calibrate their spending along with Chelsea unless Roman is in it for anther 10 years. Talks are that we are quoting £30m for Jack, i'm hoping this is not true, surely after selling over £60m worth of talent over the past years we are in no need to sell, time to use the potential of a great team rather than selling it.

correct to an extent, the point i am making is that as soon as it is clear we are able to make good cash on a player we sell them. Saha was practically out of contract and able to call the shots, the sell on for saha was next to nothing. 1 million would have been a push. Saha is a class act, yet we shouldn't class our selves as a none selling club because we retained a 31 year old.

We are a selling club, because every time we have a player that another team wants, we end up selling them. The reason being is that our transfer budget is created by the sale of players. Liverpool historically have a good record of keeping their best players as they do not look at player sales as an important revenue stream, they look at qualifying for champs league. Alonso left because they tried to sell him the year before. Players usually want to leave when the current club can not match their ambitions financially or professionally, till we can do that, we will be a selling club. Sad but true. The sale of Rodwell will be another step to us being viewed in the same way that West Ham are. Imagine where they would be if they kept the ferdinands, carricks, coles, defoes, lampards....champs league every year with an ability to stand up against the top 4 financially.

Given the nature of the game putting Arteta on was insane. Does anyone think that the likes of carragher and gerrard were thinbking "let's take it easy on him, he's just had a bad injury", I would have moved Neville into centre mid instead of fellaini and played coleman at right back. Arteta is weeks away from being match fit. I do think fans can get a little carried away in their praises of Moyes, I think he has been a fantastic manager for us, but that is not to say he has weaknesses. With Liverpool at 10 men he should have gone with Saha, Yak and Cahill as a 3 pronged attack straight away, it's no good doing that when they were defending a 1-0 lead. I think it's time to drop Saha, maybe it's the only way we can get his attitude to change, not looked himself of recent. All in all just gutted, got to face gloating RS and I haven't got any come backs like the last game where we deserved to win. They out fought and out played us.

Well i'm sure Bill will use his brokering skills and get the best possible deal for the club. This may be conjecture, but when will we be in the position to be able to laugh at bids for our players? We are a selling club, end of. Whilst being a sellng club we may as well get used to mid table mediocrity whie the top 4 continue to fight for the best players. Investment is needed and quick, to update the stadium and create a corporate revenue stream, it may take someone who is prepared to put in a vast sum which we could self serve within a 5-6 plan which would evidently mean we would need to qualify for champions league within that time frame. Under a good manager 2-3 championms league campaigns would change the dynamics of the club, one of which would be we could retain our best talent and pay the market rate for the best players to want to remain at the club. The sale of Rodwell can never be seen as good business, whether it is for £20m, £30m. Good business is having the club in a solid position where our best players are out on the pitch competing in a blue shirt, maximising match day revenue, and marketing the club in the right way.

Nothing greedy about him. He came pay as you play. Proved himself as quality, knows his market value and got it. Simple as. Tell me a striker of similar ilk who is on less than 60k a week. I just wish his ability was matched by desire, on his day he is awesome, when he doesn't feel like it get him off the pitch. Have a feelin that arteta will get the best out of him in the way gerrard does with torres.

Agreed, one thing I don't dispute is backing the 11 out there. Get stuck in boys, Fellaini to score, i'm betting on it. Set pieces are gonna be a nightmare for them tomorrow. If Bill gets on and scores, i'll forget Kings Dock!

One by one: http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/bill-kenwright-the-son-of-the-stage-turning-goodison-into-his-very-own-theatre-of-dreams-611699.html Here is proof of Walters recommendation from Bills mouth, plus promises of the Kings dock. Thousand of fans don't have the money to be in his position, that's correct, and neither does he. Lescott is an England international who can play left back, centre half and has a good scoring record. He is worth £20m because that is what city were prepared to pay, has Vidic gone for £20m? No. Will he go for £20m? Depends whether Ferguson wants to keep him till his contract ends or at what price to sell. Regardless... kenwright brokering deals a skill? not really, he sells players who want to leave the club and gets the best price he can, if you sell your house for what someone is prepared to pay for it does that make you skilled? Not really. If it wasn't for Moyes ability to run this club on nothing Kenwright would be out by now. So let's not celebrate Bill, our success on the field has very little to do with him.

I'll start the counter views! The positive about bill is that he is very visible and passionate about the club in a way few clubs could boast from a chairman. That said, many of the thousands of fans would be just as passionate in such a position. To champion a chairman because he is a fan would be short sighted. You have to look at the value he gives. If he is to be given credit for moyes, who was actually personally recommended by walter smith then he needs to be held accountable for kings dock also. Fact is kenwright messed that one up badly. A defining moment in the clubs history gone, was it his battle with gregg, his time spent in london on theatre business? Whatever, he was on the hook for that decision. Brokering deals? Getting 20m for lescott was going rate, it's only his poor form for city that is justifying it. You can't be thankful for bill because clubs like portsmouth are worse off, do you celebrate having a cold when you see someone with the flu? When it boils down to it there isn't much to champion about kenwright, applying the same passion for the team in line with bill is just wrong. Kenwright taking credit for team performances is like getting credit for a crackin meal made by your wife just cos you went shopping with the list she gave you. especially when you are eating it in a house that you needed to move from years ago when the mansion you dreamed of was affordable.

Baros scored one more goal than rooney. Played more games and two of his goals were against a poor latvian team. Let's not even start comparing the attributes of baros to rooney it's almost like comparing kevin kilbane to pienaar. Rooney was being doubled up on in our team, which if we had players to complement him would have given us more space to exploit. It has gone full circle undoubtedly, his talent has gone to help united win a host of trophys, we never had the financial status to hold on to him, nor the players to complement him. Whatever part he played in leaving you can certainly be sure the dire finances of the club meant it had to happen. If there was ever a sure thing in terms of an 18 year old set to become a world class player it was him. Was anyone surprised when they seen his hattrick debut, goal against newcastle, double against middlesboro? No. That's why selling him with two years left made no sense.