Blue 250

Well, let's hope there's some shit on here Saturday !
 
Even three points from the whole lot playing crap, won't be nice.....but it's needed.
 
My point was, that if only it were as simple as one man being out as to why we have been so poor, McCarthy can have a positive effect, but we need improvement from everyone before we turn this season around, (Martinez included).
 
I think a good team can carry a player or two performing below par, but when the majority have underperformed (not helpd by inept tactics) you don't have a chance.
 
I'm just hoping people don't go expecting too much fom McCarthy, he's maybe being hyped as a kind of saviour of the season, not easy to live up to, he just needs to fit back into the jigsaw, whilst all the other pieces do their bit.
 
Great if he's back, and may he have 'happy hamstrings' and 3 points on Saturday.

Too true, even the improvement in the last couple of games ( minus the WBA game) hasn't been anything like us at our best last season.
 
What's changed, well he (Martinez) did have a stronger squad last season, ie less injuries, he probably didn't get pre-season right and we had a crazy couple of games against Liecester and Arsenal where confidence took an early knock.Thing is though, the team/squad from last season should have been able to ride those blows and at least been able to give a better account of themselves than they have.At times our football has been terrible, that's what hurts the most.
 
Bill will stand by him I think we all know that.Martinez would have to have major problems with the players/squad before his job comes under threat.
 
I miss the little bit's of magic from Osman and Pienaar.Without Pienaar Baines is only 2/3 the player he was.
 
Another worry is Barkley, he's taken some terrible stick from fans, the lads between a rock and a hard place, where the hell is the manager and coaching staff to help him, you have to wonder if it isn't us, letting him down!
 
Have we got coaches at Everton capable of getting the best from him.
 
We've got a brilliant young spine, Stones, McCarthy, Barkley, Lukaku all just into their 20's, potentially the best two full backs in the Prem, assorted other better than average players, why the awfull football.

I wouldn't sell either for that price but a lot would depend on the variables, such as do either actually want to leave and length of contract left
 
 
However if you were to push me into a corner I would sell McCarthy simply because he is even more injury prone than Mirallas and we have a ready made replacement in Besic. Roberto also sees Barkley's future as dropping deeper into that role and if you factor in the emerging talent of Ryan Ledson then we would not feel the loss as much as we would Mirallas
 
Sell Miralllas and we have no width what so ever, we have nobody else at the club who can do what he does and he would be more expensive to replace

We need replacements for Osman and Pienaar two players able to break down tight defences.
 
We also need Mirallas wanting to play fo Everton, just a couple of challanges facing Martinez.

We need replacements for Osman and Pienaar two players able to break down tight defences.
 
We also need Mirallas wanting to play fo Everton, just a couple of challanges facing Martinez.

What is the very end? We are in relegation form at the moment. I would take top 7 over relegation scraps.

This is a real 6 pointer, anything less than 3 points would be a disaster. Don't want to even think about losing !
 
By the end of February we could be the first team in history to be bottom of the league and still not be in a relegation battle

Return to some of that shocking football we've played this season and lose at home to WBA.......then we'll see who's happy clapping.
 
Return to some of the exciting football from last season and beat WBA 3-0 ......and we'll be looking at things through totaly different eyes.
 
That's how crazy this game is.

When does it become a relegation battle?
 
We are 3 points off the drop zone with some very tough fixture on the horizon. Our mini revival has so far seen us dumped out of the FA Cup at the first hurdle, apparently this is the first time since the 1959/60 season that Everton have failed to win a domestic Cup , and move closer to the bottom 3
 
We have the least clean sheets in the division, have conceded the most goals by mistakes and look vulnerable every time we concede a corner. For those saying we are too good to go down I bet the likes of Notts Forrest and Leeds thought the same
 
Hopefully we can fight our way out of this mess but to just stick your head in the sand and ignore it wont make it go away

Disagree there. You can have the best attitude in the world, but if you're not supported or being asked to work in a manner you're not comfortable with, the results are going to suffer.
 
We have mixed up our style of play, we are playing (as a team) much faster if nothing else. I'm not saying dropping him hasn't had an impact, I'm saying a combination of factors have led to him playing better and scoring goals. 2 goals from balls played into the box, where he was able to react and put them in. Before Christmas, we had one of the lowest figures for balls into the box in Europe, didn't we?

Rom has had my support - I back him when he has a good game and recognise this. My problem with Rom is that he seems to have carte blanche with the majority of fans - its absolutely ridiculous.
 
Rom offside? - the player passing was too slow. Forget the fact that he is one of the most flagged players in the league per game and has been since WBA loan.
 
Rom not putting much effort in? - he isn't happy with our style of play, he had a toe injury 20 weeks ago and split up with his girlfriend.
 
Rom can't control a ball? He's only 21
 
In parts of the game last night he was anonymous, wasn't bothered, lacked any effort in his aggression or running. Then he would spark into life a bit then go quiet. In the previous 2 games he had something to prove - proved it and then all of a sudden he seemed to get all complacent again.
 
Overall he did ok last night. I was the only one who never really seen his miss at the end of a great run as a "miss" I thought he was unlucky and at that stage it was tiredness more than anything. I am fair with the lad. If he has a bad game due to poor touches etc I can handle that, its his concentration levels and attitude that I see as an issue.
 
P.S his was the best penno too IMO.

It only works one way for you though, that's to defend YOUR opinion. Hypocrisy again.
 
You can't accept other people's. That is the line in the sand. Your view or everyone else is wrong. Whereas the majority, as explained, base their opinions on what they see. Not their hope.

Haf, you have to realise. People make this assumptions based on what they've seen.
 
1st Season - Naismith was dire. Couldn't control the ball, couldn't run, couldn't do anything right. He had injuries, but when he was classed as 'fit' and played, he was terrible. People then made their conclusions that he was dog turd. Fair enough.
2nd Season - He gets a full pre-season under his belt, is played in his proper position and starts showing glimpses of a proper player. Bags a goal or two and grows in stature. He then got better. Everything about his game and attitude got better. He deserves his starting spot and is arguably one of the only lads deserving of a starting place. He proved people wrong, but their opinions were just based on the first season. He proved me wrong and I love him for it.
 
1st Season - Robles. Didn't get much of a seeing to, didn't start many games but those he did, he was also terrible. Flapped at crosses, spilled easy balls and made mistakes that lead directly to goals. I KNOW he didn't play many games but from what people saw of him, people formed the opinions that they did. Again, rightly so because that was the level of performance we based our opinions on.
2nd Season - Has he chance. People moaned and thought, "fucking hell, here we go" (based on their experiences of him also being a liability last year). Which is perfectly ok, they can have that opinion because he didn't do anything in his first season, to change people's opinions. Now, through a small blessing (Howard's injury) he's been thrust into the starting 11 and I have to say, he's started to look a capable keeper. The jury is still out on him (1 game (West Ham) shouldn't cloud everyone's opinion but it should highlight the potential)). That being said, if he keeps improving and learning, he has all the attributes (command of the area, reactions, coverings) to be a decent keeper. Let's hope it continues and he grows as a result of it. He's well deserving of the praise for yesterdays game.
 
1st Season - McGeady's first season, was none existent. Admittedly he only had 6 months to get up to speed but just didn't look capable when he did play. People formed an opinion on him.
2nd Season - Now he's had a full pre-season under his belt, played in a fair amount of games, as a starter and as a sub and to be honest, has done very little to change people's opinions. People talk about giving him time, but he's had it and has nothing to show for it. A bit of "energy" in 5/10 minute spells in a game, is NOT going to change people's opinions on him. For a winger he can't pass a man, he can't control a ball at speed, he can't tackle (when he's doing his defensive duties) and he just doesn't look 'fit'. He got sent off yesterday for being a proper tit. An attitude I can't see being changed (was at Celtic and in Russia).
 
So you can blast people for judging players too soon, which I will give, as i'm prone to it myself. But to suggest we judge a player based on whether his "face fits" is absolute bollocks. Complete and utter turd. People's opinions are based on what they see, on the pitch, in the shirt. Pure and simple. People are allowed these opinions. I fucking hate this whole "forum warriors bollocks" because the irony is, the people making that claim are writing it on a forum, with their own views (you fucking warriors you). When a player proves me, fans wrong, we love it. Naismith has done it and excelled. Robles is starting that upward battle and winning. McGeady is doing very little to change the majority of fans.
 
There are examples of it happening in reverse. Atsu. If it was based on who's "face fits" then Atsu would have been a class signing for Everton. Young, dangerous, direct, has buckets of potential but has done ABSOLUTELY fuck all for us. When I've seen him, he looks a tenth of the player i've watch at the WC, Vitesse and Porto. This Atsu wouldn't be fit enough to clean their Atsu's boots. It happens. We have opinions, positive or negative towards players. If they're negative to start, it's up to the players to prove that they're worth the appreciation of the fans, that wear that shirt. Prove us wrong.
 
We can have opinions whenever we fucking like. You have yours. Keep them, express them, fight for them but can people stop blasting each other for it, it's boring. My opinions are formed on performances and so far some have disappointed (McGeady, Barkley, Coleman) and some have surprised (Joel, Besic and Mirallas).
 
I'm done.

Joel was a gent compared to Adrian, who pulled every trick he could to put off our players.

Never nice to lose a game, but that's the kind of defeat that brings a squad together.

He is frustrating but underrated. We could definitely do with his neat foot work in the final third atm. Gutting if true.
 
Looks like Pienaar could go the same way too. Another influential player that at his best we sorely miss.

Cheers for my first game at Goodison Park today! I haven't been active because I have been in London for a month, and I finally got to go the grounds today for my first match. Just got back from Liverpool.
 
Impressions on the game: Joel Robles is rocky, but his kicking accuracy is much better than Howard's
 
- Feels so good to have Stones back in the line-up, much better than Distin in every way. Big aerial threat, particularly on defending corners. Past mistakes have included leaving a man free on the far post for the extra cross or shot.
 
- Besic is a work in progress. Very talented player, but lacks confidence at times.
 
- McGeady is our weakest link. How the hell is this guy starting.
 
- Lukaku is fantastic. We need to play more direct to him. Lukaku and Naismith were the only players who showed up to play 90 mins.
 
Impressions on my first time in Liverpool:
- Being from the U.S., you hardly never see anyone with Everton kits, and it felt so great to be at Lime St and you just see everyone with their kits and scarves ready to go. You feel the energy and just being in Liverpool with my Everton jersey really energized the hell out of me. More importantly, I only saw one koppite.
 
- Goodison Park is more beautiful that I could have expected. I really understood what people mean when they say it is a more "classical" ground.
 
- The energy in the stadium was fantastic. Singing "Grand Old Team," yelling at McGeady, and shouting down Man City fans was a blast.
 
This is really a world class team.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/sport-opinion/player-power-healthy-thing-everton-8415358
 
"
Romelu Lukaku came out afterwards and said that the players had been an influence in that slight change of emphasis.
Quite how much say they had in the change we will never know.
But I don’t think it is an unhealthy thing that players are invited by a manager and his coaches to have some input into tactics.
That is a sign of a manager who is confident of his position and sure of his position within the group.
I am sure some would read negative things into it but I am willing to believe it was a positive factor.
And the net result was a much better Everton performance"

Oh so, Lukakus goals last year, the majority were balls played from the flanks !
 
These ' people ' that talk about getting the ball to Lukaku quicker, what they want is any ball ! from the flanks, from the back, infact from any friggin angle, just get the ball to the danger man.
 
It's what they did more of against West Ham, it's what they did last season.It doesn't matter if it's him or Kone/Naismith if you don't give them the right service they wont score.
 
We are fucking about with it and not hurting opponents, that is down to Martinezs' tactics.
 
We were more direct last season, you don't need your stats for that one, this year with a loss of form from quite a few players, and opponents getting wise to us, it just isn't working.So you change things.
 
Martinez/we got lucky last season, everyone was playing to their strengths, it clicked almost better than we could have hoped for.
 
This season he persisted with it even when most could see he needed to change it.
 
' Has Martinez got it wrong ', this season without doubt.Opponents can probably pick their team to play against us, they know what formation and tactics we will employ.
 
Lowest point of the season for me and there have been many, was Hull City at Goodison, out thought by Steve Bruce, who's only instruction shouted across a silent Goodison was ' PUSH UP '.
 
When you see players of the quality of Baines, Coleman, Jags, Stones, Mirallas, Lukaku and a good few others, I can't fathom how we have become so predictable.

Oh so, Lukakus goals last year, the majority were balls played from the flanks !
 
These ' people ' that talk about getting the ball to Lukaku quicker, what they want is any ball ! from the flanks, from the back, infact from any friggin angle, just get the ball to the danger man.
 
It's what they did more of against West Ham, it's what they did last season.It doesn't matter if it's him or Kone/Naismith if you don't give them the right service they wont score.
 
We are fucking about with it and not hurting opponents, that is down to Martinezs' tactics.
 
We were more direct last season, you don't need your stats for that one, this year with a loss of form from quite a few players, and opponents getting wise to us, it just isn't working.So you change things.
 
Martinez/we got lucky last season, everyone was playing to their strengths, it clicked almost better than we could have hoped for.
 
This season he persisted with it even when most could see he needed to change it.
 
' Has Martinez got it wrong ', this season without doubt.Opponents can probably pick their team to play against us, they know what formation and tactics we will employ.
 
Lowest point of the season for me and there have been many, was Hull City at Goodison, out thought by Steve Bruce, who's only instruction shouted across a silent Goodison was ' PUSH UP '.
 
When you see players of the quality of Baines, Coleman, Jags, Stones, Mirallas, Lukaku and a good few others, I can't fathom how we have become so predictable.

Haf, you had no problem when Naismith came out after the West Ham game and had (what you perceived) as a dig at Rom in previous games, so why has this bothered you so much?
 
I don't think it shows anything in a negative light tbh, if anything it shows that the players were proactive and showed initiative, and it also showed that there's an open relationship between the management and players and there's a will to listen and compromise. Not, as you think, Rom saying he's sorted everything out just because he had a word with Roberto.
 
You've blown this out of all proportion, mate.

No, I don't want to play your bloody stupid games, I don't have time to research things and spend hours on here.
 
For me my biggest disapointment is Coleman, though the whole team including Lukaku haven't playe well, with Coleman I'm not going to spend time and effort picking holes in his play, he's just having, for me a poor season.If someone wants to tell me they think he's actually not doing that bad, and it's Evertons tactics and the players around him that's making him look bad I'll just let it go, maybe they have a point.
 
But you with Lukaku are different, you are right (your stats prove it, yawn ), everytone else is wrong (your stats prove it, yawn).
As I say I haven't gone to town on Coleman, he is to my mind amongst others having a poor run of form, he's not breaking into the area and putting in those tasty crosses for Lukaku and others or shooting for goal.
 
I could do what you do, look up stats to try and rubbish Coleman, I'd never dream of it, he'll come good.Jesus look at Barry, his form has certainly dipped, he's getting stick, but no one is going on a one man crusade the way you do.
 
It's not just Gray who's saying we've been sussed, that we're not as good as last year (pretty fucking obvious), Mirallas, Naismith and Lukaku aren't scoring or even looking as good as last season.....they wont, THE TEAMS NOT PLAYING WELL !
 
but of course, it' only really Lukakus fault isn't it.....your stats prove it (how many goals did Heskey score, yawn)
 
You seem to have endless amounts of time to spend on here and on the net doing research, yawn, so in a head to head ! you will certainly ' out stat me '...
 
Now I know your a big Martinez fan, so I'm sorry to sum with, HE and the entire Everton team this season are with a few exceptions pretty fucking poor, Lukaku included.
 
There are though people/players more at fault for this than Lukaku,....... Martinez, Barry and Coleman to name a few.
 
You continue with your Lukaku fixation............I'll not go looking to slag Coleman off, even though I might want too.
 
Head to head, no thanks.......your always right.

I agree. I have never questioned his finishing in and around the box. (His long range shooting is a bit like Bobby Zamora though!)
 
The problem has been he needs to earn the right to get in there. Drop, take the ball, lay it off/give and go and get in the danger area.
 
Too often he has just been happy to wait for the magic to happen, and it doesn't. It doesn't surprise me in the slightest that Bony is going to Man City - he is an expert at give and go's. They need that physical prescence to link up the attacking midfielders.
 
Rom dropping, giving and going last night gave Ross loads of scope when running with the ball. It stopped west ham from having a flat back 4 - they were disjointed when he did it - it was really good to see!

Yes you did praise him but you steadfastly refuse to believe that the change in the way we played had any bearing on his improved performance. Instead you get on your high horse with all this " Ive been proved right , you are all wrong" bollocks
 
You criticised Lukakus runs so I posted a video of how effective he is when he gets the ball played in after making those runs and you totally ignored it

Come on Haf. You have to admit it's gone beyond liking him as a player. You never will, it's too deep within you.
 
Saying he played well, whilst biting your tongue.