nogs

Absolutely. Martinez ruins good players.

Absolutely. Martinez ruins good players.

I don't think it works like that...
 
What do you suggest? Make him sign a contract in which he promises not to pass sideways, prioritise players' fitness, introduce the high press, look to be much more direct on the counter and stop blatantly lying about the quality of performances in interviews?
 
Surely it would be easier just to hire someone else?

Neither Howe nor Dyche have taken unfancied teams to the knock-out stages of the Champions League.

The 'Martinez talks a good game' line is bullshit - saying what you want people to believe in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary is idiocy.
 
1-1 'a strong result' at Watford?? Sure, if you are a club that accepts not being relegated as a 'good' season. Far from being his strength, his chat is what has alienated fans and now apparently the players too.
 
Just be honest, Roberto - just come out and say we're playing toss and you'll bleed through your eyes to put it right! You'd have half a chance at this football club then.

The 'Martinez talks a good game' line is bullshit - saying what you want people to believe in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary is idiocy.
 
1-1 'a strong result' at Watford?? Sure, if you are a club that accepts not being relegated as a 'good' season. Far from being his strength, his chat is what has alienated fans and now apparently the players too.
 
Just be honest, Roberto - just come out and say we're playing toss and you'll bleed through your eyes to put it right! You'd have half a chance at this football club then.

Mike - for your own sanity, give up. We heard you four months ago, and in January you had a point. Not any more. 
Between 2 January and 7 April 1984, we lost just once in the league. Admittedly there were too many draws in that time, and we then lost the next two league games after winning the FA Cup semi against Southampton. But the point is, the signs of recovery were there. We should have beaten Liverpool, the best team in Europe, at Wembley in the League Cup final, after holding them 1-1 at Goodison a couple of weeks earlier. They'd smashed us 3-0 at Anfield the previous November. In his autobiography, Big Nev says those games against Liverpool were the turn around - we believed we could mix it with the best. Winning the FA Cup completed the catharsis, and we all know what that team went on to achieve.
 
Do you seriously think we are on the verge of a similar turn around under Martinez? How many league games have we lost since January? Instead of mixing it with the best, we've just rolled over and let Arsenal and Man Utd tickle our tummies. Kendall was a people's man who was loved by his players; Martinez is falling out with senior squad members in public over them making honest assessments of where we're falling short. Kendall took what was probably his final chance because he got his young side grinding out results and built momentum. Martinez is doing the exact opposite because he doesn't seem to think winning is the priority.
 
Need I go on? Kendall proved himself a very good manager in adversity. Martinez is in danger of sinking without a trace.

Mike - for your own sanity, give up. We heard you four months ago, and in January you had a point. Not any more. 
Between 2 January and 7 April 1984, we lost just once in the league. Admittedly there were too many draws in that time, and we then lost the next two league games after winning the FA Cup semi against Southampton. But the point is, the signs of recovery were there. We should have beaten Liverpool, the best team in Europe, at Wembley in the League Cup final, after holding them 1-1 at Goodison a couple of weeks earlier. They'd smashed us 3-0 at Anfield the previous November. In his autobiography, Big Nev says those games against Liverpool were the turn around - we believed we could mix it with the best. Winning the FA Cup completed the catharsis, and we all know what that team went on to achieve.
 
Do you seriously think we are on the verge of a similar turn around under Martinez? How many league games have we lost since January? Instead of mixing it with the best, we've just rolled over and let Arsenal and Man Utd tickle our tummies. Kendall was a people's man who was loved by his players; Martinez is falling out with senior squad members in public over them making honest assessments of where we're falling short. Kendall took what was probably his final chance because he got his young side grinding out results and built momentum. Martinez is doing the exact opposite because he doesn't seem to think winning is the priority.
 
Need I go on? Kendall proved himself a very good manager in adversity. Martinez is in danger of sinking without a trace.

Thank him for what, two consecutive years of underachieving mediocrity? This is not the best squad we have had in 30 years because they do not know how to win, it is nonsense to suggest this lot are better than, say, the team of Cahill, Arteta, Osman, Pienaar et al. Which team do you honestly think would win between this lot and the Moyes side of 5/6 years ago? I know who my money would be on. And come next season two, three, four of those 'phenomenal talents' will have jumped ship anyway.
 
And no, it is not pack mentality. I'd say it's a pretty rational response to watching a team play without passion, hunger and the nouse to win games the way, say, Leicester do. I would swap our entire squad of underachieving lazy arseholes for 21 players with the heart they have and a manager who knows how to utilise it. So no, I won't thank Martinez for fuck all, because he has given us fuck all.

Thank him for what, two consecutive years of underachieving mediocrity? This is not the best squad we have had in 30 years because they do not know how to win, it is nonsense to suggest this lot are better than, say, the team of Cahill, Arteta, Osman, Pienaar et al. Which team do you honestly think would win between this lot and the Moyes side of 5/6 years ago? I know who my money would be on. And come next season two, three, four of those 'phenomenal talents' will have jumped ship anyway.
 
And no, it is not pack mentality. I'd say it's a pretty rational response to watching a team play without passion, hunger and the nouse to win games the way, say, Leicester do. I would swap our entire squad of underachieving lazy arseholes for 21 players with the heart they have and a manager who knows how to utilise it. So no, I won't thank Martinez for fuck all, because he has given us fuck all.

Well that is a half that confirms why Martinez needs to fuck off. When you saw how we played against Chelsea, why should fans put up with this shit? You can't pick and choose when to get up for a game, it has to be the minimum expected, week in, week out. It's like we think we can win games in second gear. Just. Fuck. Off.

That's not the point. As I said above, 100% effort and the right mentality should be a given, but you have to prepare for it. If it is not there, the manager is doing something wrong. Mentality is a crucial part of preparation in professional sport.

Too easy. Why are both centre halves up past half way?
 
Utterly, utterly lame.

League game at home - zero intensity. It just isn't acceptable to fly at Chelsea a week ago and look so disinterested this week.

There was also that shockingly negative CL semi final against Barca... and the way he played at Porto...
 
But more to the point, we talk about Everton having a very special identity as a club, we like to see ourselves doing things different to every other club. Mourinho wouldn't give a fuck about that, he's an egomaniac who would spend two, three seasons max with us, turn us into the sort of team that piles 10 men around the ref when decisions went against us, and if we did win anything, take all the accolades himself.
 
Yes I want to win. But I want Everton FC to win, year in, year out. Mourinho is all about Jose Mourinho. No thank you.

Mourinho...? I'm sure I've heard most of this board saying Martinez's big redeeming feature is the style of football he has us playing. Mourinho is the exact polar opposite, screw the spectacle, just win. Bit of a u-turn wouldn't you say?
 
Won't happen anyway, he's the ultimate big time Charlie, won't look twice at a club not in the CL. Plus he's a prick.

Mourinho...? I'm sure I've heard most of this board saying Martinez's big redeeming feature is the style of football he has us playing. Mourinho is the exact polar opposite, screw the spectacle, just win. Bit of a u-turn wouldn't you say?
 
Won't happen anyway, he's the ultimate big time Charlie, won't look twice at a club not in the CL. Plus he's a prick.

Martinez claiming we don't have a problem defending crosses shows he cares more about his precious 'philosophy' than results, and Everton FC

Martinez claiming we don't have a problem defending crosses shows he cares more about his precious 'philosophy' than results, and Everton FC

With Arsenal, Man Utd, Leicester and Liverpool still to play... and a manager who has finished top half once in 6 seasons as a Premiership manager... and a wretched habit of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory... 
Shall we call it a tenner?

I don't think he's capable of any of that. All I see happening if he stays is our most promising players leave and we watch a wonderful opportunity slip away.

Despite the recent run of clean sheets our defending is generally shambolic. We know it isn't the players because the majority of our back four were part of a very good defence under Moyes. It is how we set up. The fact that we play two shielding midfielders and still look so porous is a complete joke. Does anyone see any of that changing?

Well that was largely toss... but I'm much, much happier playing poorly and winning than battering teams and somehow conspiring not to win

Hmmm 3 at the back... no thank you Roberto

Well that was largely toss... but I'm much, much happier playing poorly and winning than battering teams and somehow conspiring not to win