Bailey Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 Moyes is making us have passengers all over the place. Personally, I'd rather have a player who is in form but with less ability than someone with more ability but is horribly out of form. Yesterday, because we had Arteta and Saha playing we effectively had 9 players. That's without taking into account that Jags and Neville had poor games too. Yep completely agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 Moyes record with strikers is abysmal, he turned Andy Johnson into a right bloody winger, let teams sit deep and wack the ball into the corners. For the way he employed his strikers post Marcus bent you would have thought bent was still playing. His reluctance to allow an out and out strike partnership time go develop is an outrage, all because Tim is an effective goal threat. Do chelsea play lampard as striker? Nope, he is a midfielder with a license to get forward who supplements the trio of malouda, drogba and anelka. Any striker will question the logic in moving to everton with the service that the strikers receive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 Not getting involved in all this, but AJ scored 13 pens out of the 19 goals he scored for palace in the prem so he was never a great goal scorer. The rest is boring now. Accept that we can't afford to give him transfer money, we can't afford to pay him off if he's fired and we can't afford a more high profile manager. We have notes and that's not Gunna change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 Not getting involved in all this, but AJ scored 13 pens out of the 19 goals he scored for palace in the prem so he was never a great goal scorer. The rest is boring now. Accept that we can't afford to give him transfer money, we can't afford to pay him off if he's fired and we can't afford a more high profile manager. We have notes and that's not Gunna change. Moyes needs to change, he needs to assess his attacking coaches, maybe shift round out and get a more attack minded assistant who will test his mindset. Look at the way Blackpool are set up, they have a right good go at teams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyleM Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 This quote from Jags sums things up for me.. "We are in a difficult position now and yes, that tends to bring out the best in this side, but the truth is we’re getting sick and tired of us having to do that." From a good article written a month ago and we are in the same, if not a worse situation. The scary thing is I can't see us turning things around at the minute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy the blue Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 Not getting involved in all this, but AJ scored 13 pens out of the 19 goals he scored for palace in the prem so he was never a great goal scorer. The rest is boring now. Accept that we can't afford to give him transfer money, we can't afford to pay him off if he's fired and we can't afford a more high profile manager. We have notes and that's not Gunna change. Wise as always Steve He's got more money than Hollaway at Blackpool in fact he's paid money pa than the entire Blackpool team cost mate. We must give him until the end of term but I'm sick of the no alternative crap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 Nice one Jim! There are alternatives, we just can't afford to get one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 Nice one Jim! There are alternatives, we just can't afford to get one. You back regularly now mate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 Trying mate, working two jobs has too a lot of my time. Downloaded an ipboard iPhone app and TT runs great on it so much more time on here now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 Glad to hear it, you do tend to talk sense so you're very welcome on here . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 Everyone on TT talks sense! Haha I almost meant that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 Just tell me this Dunc's why doesn't Garbut get a seat on the bench? Again why does he choose to let kids sit there week in week out...........how does that instill confidence, sorry mate. Incidentally Moyes knew what the Yak was like and he hasn't managed to change him either instead he weighed more than I do and that's saying something. Gus Hiddinck recommended Bily to us, he is a far better manager that DM so was he wrong as well or has Moyes missed something. How can Bily's confidence improve week in and week out when he sees the greedy selfish prick Saha ruining chance after chance...............great confidence boosting message that one. I think you will find Garbutt has been on the bench this season Sorry but you are way off the mark with Garbutt. The lad signed as a 16 year old and in the past 12 months he has broken into the reserve side on a regular basis, won the European U17 Championships with England. Captained the England U18's and signed his first professional contract. The lad is 17 ffs just how much more do u want him to achieve at that age? It is complete lunacy to accuse Moyse of halting his career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 I think you will find Garbutt has been on the bench this season Which game was that? I'm not being funny by asking, I just can't recall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 Which game was that? I'm not being funny by asking, I just can't recall. I have just checked and I got that one wrong it was actually last season when he made the bench. But the point remains the lad has had a great 12 months and is a million miles from being finished at 17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 I have just checked and I got that one wrong it was actually last season when he made the bench. But the point remains the lad has had a great 12 months and is a million miles from being finished at 17 I agree tbh, Garbutt hasn't even been at the club all that long as well, I wouldn't expect him to be getting first team games yet. But the likes of Gueye were heavily involved in pre-season and probably should have been thrown in at some point this season with how shite we've been doing, even if it's just from the bench as a last roll of the dice in games or whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehelmet Posted January 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 As for this whole subject I wasn't calling for Moyes to be sacked, but I do think again that he, and the board, needs to hear the critiscism of what they're trying to accomplish and what is accomplishing at the moment. Everyone knows he is on a shoe-string budget, everyone knows there has been no new investment in players. But the squad we have has managed a lot better, and we're used to and we expect them to perform a lot better. I am more than pleased with his track record with our academy players so far (both Rodwell and Coleman are excellent examples of what can be done), I am more concerned with his stubborness to force his way through more than actually taking a step back and seeing that the team is not working. There is a lot of both potential and ability to do more than what is being shown at the moment, and a lot of it seems to do with his team selections for this season.. at least it's my take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 As for this whole subject I wasn't calling for Moyes to be sacked, but I do think again that he, and the board, needs to hear the critiscism of what they're trying to accomplish and what is accomplishing at the moment. Everyone knows he is on a shoe-string budget, everyone knows there has been no new investment in players. But the squad we have has managed a lot better, and we're used to and we expect them to perform a lot better. I am more than pleased with his track record with our academy players so far (both Rodwell and Coleman are excellent examples of what can be done), I am more concerned with his stubborness to force his way through more than actually taking a step back and seeing that the team is not working. There is a lot of both potential and ability to do more than what is being shown at the moment, and a lot of it seems to do with his team selections for this season.. at least it's my take. Coleman was bought in, albeit for peanuts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy the blue Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 I have just checked and I got that one wrong it was actually last season when he made the bench. But the point remains the lad has had a great 12 months and is a million miles from being finished at 17 At no point have I said Garbuts career is over, where you got that from is mystery, I said going nowhere which as he hasn't made the bench once this years is a fact. The point remains, as you have said yourself, the lad is doing this that and the other for England but he can't make the bench with us................do you think he may consider doing a Gosling or a Vic, what confidence does that give him. If he is good enough then he is old enough and we have many players producing nought but crap at the present time yet he can't get a look in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 (edited) I will be happy to see Cahill go to the Asia cup, a great player for us in terms of what he gives in effort etc, however I will be interested to see how the balance is affected. I have thought for a while the team is structured around his inclusion, which may be detrimental to the play of others. When we had that tedious thread around him being world class, many of the posts made were constructive against him being world class and that was down to his overall abilities as a midfielder or striker. It is by no means a criticism of Cahill, but highlighting an over reliance on certain attributes a player has by Moyes. Cahill needs to supplement the team, not the other way round, Edited January 3, 2011 by Hafnia2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 I will be happy to see Cahill go to the Asia cup, a great player for us in terms of what he gives in effort etc, however I will be interested to see how the balance is affected. I have thought for a while the team is structured around his inclusion, which may be detrimental to the play of others. When we had that tedious thread around him being world class, many of the posts made were constructive against him being world class and that was down to his overall abilities as a midfielder or striker. It is by no means a criticism of Cahill, but highlighting an over reliance on certain attributes a player has for moyes. Yeh I have thought this for a while. Cahill is brilliant at what he does but is limited in other areas. Iv thought a couple of times this season there have been chances for us to try 4-4-2 against weaker teams to see what we will do in his absense. The only issue I have would be the balance in midfield. Fellaini's best position is cleary as a central DM sitting just in front of the 2 CB's, yet in a 4-4-2 he will be asked to play alongside another CM (probably Arteta), meaning he isnt going to be fully utilised and we would probably look incredibly vulnerable through the centre like we have several times this season. We could go for a diamond in the middle but I dont really see it working as it makes us too narrow (another failing recently) and we would probably then be beaten down the flanks (especially against Spurs). The formation we could play is the one we started with against City (and Hull last season) with a single striker and the 2 CM's supporting the striker (which Cahill was playing brilliantly at Eastlands until he got switched all over the place). IMO this also suits Arteta, Osman, Pienaar, Rodwell and possibly even Bily or Gueye. Add two attacking & hard working wingers (which we already have in Coleman & Pienaar) then we have a formation that more or less plays to our teams strengths and surprisingly its already a set up that Moyes has played and been successful with. For some reason he just doesnt want to use it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 At no point have I said Garbuts career is over, where you got that from is mystery, I said going nowhere which as he hasn't made the bench once this years is a fact. The point remains, as you have said yourself, the lad is doing this that and the other for England but he can't make the bench with us................do you think he may consider doing a Gosling or a Vic, what confidence does that give him. If he is good enough then he is old enough and we have many players producing nought but crap at the present time yet he can't get a look in Ok you said his career has stopped under Moyes either way you are still wrong. He has just completed the best 12 months of his professional life so you couldnt be more wrong if you tried Just how many players do you want to get on the bench, the lad is a 17 year old LB ffs? I can understand people having a go about him not playing Duffy, I can even understand why people are jumping on the Gueye bandwagon but please slagging him off for not putting a 17 year old LB on the bench.? Baines has been one of our best players all year would you honestly want to drag him off just to give Garbutt a go? You have just been slagging him off for having lads on the bench and not playing them so I presume you want him to play instead of Baines or did you have another option in mind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 Got to agree, Garbutt is hardly the smoking gun in Moyes hand at the moment, we have the best performing left back in the league at the moment. Duffy > Gueye > Baxter > Mustafi > Joao Silva all should be considered for the bench ahead of Baines, if he gets injured Neville or Distin would do a job there. I think at times decent threads can be made tedious by labouring on unimportant/inaccurate comments. That said, hopefully Garbutt is understudy to Baines at present, he along with Distin and Cahill asre the only players covering themselves in glory. Regardless, I still can't believe Hibbert was played at centre half! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy the blue Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 (edited) Ok you said his career has stopped under Moyes either way you are still wrong. He has just completed the best 12 months of his professional life so you couldnt be more wrong if you tried Just how many players do you want to get on the bench, the lad is a 17 year old LB ffs? I can understand people having a go about him not playing Duffy, I can even understand why people are jumping on the Gueye bandwagon but please slagging him off for not putting a 17 year old LB on the bench.? Baines has been one of our best players all year would you honestly want to drag him off just to give Garbutt a go? You have just been slagging him off for having lads on the bench and not playing them so I presume you want him to play instead of Baines or did you have another option in mind? Why do mention Baines, try mentioning Hibbo, and it seems that even when I prove you wrong you say I couldn't be more worng for doing so, strange argument that one Dunc's. Don't you think that most great players at our club made early appearances, shit Rooney, Ball, Vaughan and Royle had a few games under their belts by the time they were 17 Colin Harvey was playing for us at the San Siro, or do you forget. For the umpteenth time, just in case you missed it,,,,,,,,,,,,,,if he is good enough then he is old enough or do you disagree? Edited January 3, 2011 by Jimmy the blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 (edited) Why do mention Baines, try mentioning Hibbo, and it seems that even when I prove you wrong you say I couldn't be more worng for doing so, strange argument that one Dunc's. Don't you think that most great players at our club made early appearances, shit Rooney, Ball, Vaughan and Royle had a few games under their belts by the time they were 17 Colin Harvey was playing for us at the San Siro, or do you forget. For the umpteenth time, just in case you missed it,,,,,,,,,,,,,,if he is good enough then he is old enough or do you disagree? Jimmy, do you really want our best player (Baines) to miss out to play Garbutt? All the signs are good with Garbutt, we didn't go through that shitstorm with Leeds for nothing, but there's a proven performer in his position. I wouldn't mind seeing Baines given a rest against Scunny and Garbutt get a go though. Edited January 4, 2011 by Romey 1878 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 (edited) Jimmy, do you really want our best player (Baines) to miss out to play Garbutt? All the signs are good with Garbutt, we didn't go through that shitstorm with Leeds for nothing, but there's a proven performer in his position. I wouldn't mind seeing Baines given a rest against Scunny and Garbutt get a go though. Not Bidwell? lol I think the bit in bold is the point, we all know he wont get a go, the only player really likely to get a game against Scunthorpe is Gueye and maybe Jv at a push. I think its right to play a strong team but a couple of rotations for key players wouldnt hurt us too much and should the lads coming in should have more hunger and desire to play well and prove a point. Its not as if our 1st team who play in these Lower League encounters have covered themselves in glory in the past. Edited January 4, 2011 by Bailey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Not Bidwell? lol Not unless we're playing against a Sunday League side, that's much more his level . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlmc25 Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Moyes is driving me insane. He plays Anichebe, we beat Man City away. So what does Moyes does following Anichebe's suspension? he plays Saha, the guy who can't find the penalty area never mind the back of the net. HE IS TOTALLY USELESS, it's an absolute farce that he is playing when he hasn't scored for over 9 months and hasn't even looked like scoring in that time. I'm sort of glad that Cahill has gone, I actually think it may turn our season around as FINALLY Moyes may have to change things. IF he sticks Fellaini up front then he should be sacked, seriously. Moyes has been amazing for us but all of his best formations and ideas he seems to have fallen upon through luck (or bad luck - injury etc) rather than any tactial nous. The 451 only came about through injury and lack of players. It's worked a treat for years and I still think it suits our players best but for some reason our players just dont look interested. We seem to do best when we have loads of injuries and Moyes doesn't have any selection headaches, as soon as he has options he makes a mess of it. The season we had Jeffers, Rooney, Campbell up front we got our lowest points total ever or something. He kept switching them around and just couldn't make his mind up, destroying everyone's confidence in the process. Tactically he is abysmal, substitutions have always been poor and any cup matches over two legs he hasn't got a clue. Moyes job must be under threat by now, this season isn't good enough, he has no excuses and the performances of some of the players (Arteta in particular) have to be questioned - is there something wrong behind the scenes? How can Arteta play so badly all season? it's insane, he's our best player yet looks like a chump. Is it Moyes fault through bad tactics or poor man management or is Arteta just not interested any more? Moyes needs to step up and grow a pair, I'd rather see us go 442 and hoof it than see us pussy foot around doing nothing. We seem to have watched Spain in the World Cup and used their borefest style as a marker of how to play, unfortunately we don't have David Villa up front and Iniesta in midfield and at least Spain did try and score occasionally. I cannot for the life of me see how Moyes can think this season is acceptable, after half of the season surely he should recognise that something is wrong and whatever he is doing isn't working. How can we beat Man City & Liverpool, draw with Utd, Chelsea, Spurs and yet we cannot beat any of the poorer teams in the league? we are so much better than most of the teams in the league yet we just aren't trying to win matches, we seem to be going out to draw games. Anyway, get Anichebe up front and get Yakubu or Beckford/Vaughan with him. Just play anyone who'll actually have a go and try and score a goal. I already wish our season was over and I went in with the highest expectation in about 20 years. Moyes needs to get it together and fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlmc25 Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 (edited) I will be happy to see Cahill go to the Asia cup, a great player for us in terms of what he gives in effort etc, however I will be interested to see how the balance is affected. I have thought for a while the team is structured around his inclusion, which may be detrimental to the play of others. When we had that tedious thread around him being world class, many of the posts made were constructive against him being world class and that was down to his overall abilities as a midfielder or striker. It is by no means a criticism of Cahill, but highlighting an over reliance on certain attributes a player has by Moyes. Cahill needs to supplement the team, not the other way round, I think this is rubbish to be honest. Cahill DOES supplement the team, wherever he plays he puts in a shift and contributes to the team. Attacking wise we're basically a two man team this season, Baines and Cahill. I think we can all see that Cahill's all round game is slightly limited, but as an attacking midfielder in a 451 he's up there with the best in the country and he is world class in that position. I wouldn't play him in a 442, but then again apart from possibly Fellaini I wouldn't play any of our midfielders in a 442. I could understand your argument in previous seasons but this year Cahill has been sensational and everyone else abysmal, even when he played up front our midfield was still inept without him. I think Everton may be over reliant on Cahill but that's through no fault of his own, it's purely due to the fact that everyone else is playing rubbish and the fact that Moyes' tactical acumen is nil. Cahill is possibly the single biggest reason we have finished in such good league positions under Moyes, our squad is suited to a 451 and that's where Cahill (and usually the rest of the team) thrives. Edited January 4, 2011 by carlmc25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy the blue Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Jimmy, do you really want our best player (Baines) to miss out to play Garbutt? All the signs are good with Garbutt, we didn't go through that shitstorm with Leeds for nothing, but there's a proven performer in his position. I wouldn't mind seeing Baines given a rest against Scunny and Garbutt get a go though. Christ sake..................what happens if Leighton gets injured, what experience does Garbut have this term, none, he has not even been on the bench, and I think we are now all agreed on that one. God forbid Baines getting injured but if he did answer me this would Grabut get a game under Moyes, no he would just play round with his back four. The thread is about building confidence, Duffy muist be thinking what else he can do to get a bloody game. What so many of you seem to miss out, reading each posting in isolation instead the thread as a whole, I want to see youngster inspired, if they get to the bench then they should be considered able to play and asked to play rather than just get very nice seats on the half way line, a piece of orange and left to wonder what they did wrong, week in and week out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Christ sake..................what happens if Leighton gets injured, what experience does Garbut have this term, none, he has not even been on the bench, and I think we are now all agreed on that one. God forbid Baines getting injured but if he did answer me this would Grabut get a game under Moyes, no he would just play round with his back four. The thread is about building confidence, Duffy muist be thinking what else he can do to get a bloody game. What so many of you seem to miss out, reading each posting in isolation instead the thread as a whole, I want to see youngster inspired, if they get to the bench then they should be considered able to play and asked to play rather than just get very nice seats on the half way line, a piece of orange and left to wonder what they did wrong, week in and week out Calm it Jimmy, I've been one of Moyes' biggest critics this season so I'm by no means sticking up for him, and I too think his treatment of youngsters is shite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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