thehelmet Posted December 30, 2010 Report Share Posted December 30, 2010 Did anyone else feel like Moyes might have made one of his biggest mistakes in charge of Everton in our last match against West Ham? How do you reason benching three struggling strikers in a game against this season's most apparent punching bag, when they are all sorely needing of playing time and any eventual goals? How did Arteta earn a place having missed several games due to a silly ban, and having played out of form for the better part of this season? I agree that Rodders and Fellaini deserved to continue in midfield after their City performance, but wouldn't this have been the perfect game for Beckford to get a run in from the start, and Cahill in his preferred (and best) role as playing off the man up top? Yak gave a really poor showing of himself, which is sad 'cause he had been looking a bit more interested but does anyone else feel like he plays his worst and most lazy when he's put under pressure and doesn't get an automatic starting berth? Bleh. I just wish Moyes would play any one of our strikers, even Saha at this point, before playing Tiny Tim up front with Arty in support as that combination just does nothing for our fighting spirit-reliant midfield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted December 30, 2010 Report Share Posted December 30, 2010 Did anyone else feel like Moyes might have made one of his biggest mistakes in charge of Everton in our last match against West Ham? How do you reason benching three struggling strikers in a game against this season's most apparent punching bag, when they are all sorely needing of playing time and any eventual goals? How did Arteta earn a place having missed several games due to a silly ban, and having played out of form for the better part of this season? I agree that Rodders and Fellaini deserved to continue in midfield after their City performance, but wouldn't this have been the perfect game for Beckford to get a run in from the start, and Cahill in his preferred (and best) role as playing off the man up top? Yak gave a really poor showing of himself, which is sad 'cause he had been looking a bit more interested but does anyone else feel like he plays his worst and most lazy when he's put under pressure and doesn't get an automatic starting berth? Bleh. I just wish Moyes would play any one of our strikers, even Saha at this point, before playing Tiny Tim up front with Arty in support as that combination just does nothing for our fighting spirit-reliant midfield. The only explanation I can imagine is Moyes is selling JV, Yak and Saha and didn't want to risk injury, with Anichebe suspended that leaves Beckford who he obviously doesn't rate at this level! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted December 30, 2010 Report Share Posted December 30, 2010 Moyes' handling of our strikers this season has been baffling to say the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted December 30, 2010 Report Share Posted December 30, 2010 (edited) Idiot, the man is a stubborn surly idiot. Sorry, woke up in a bad mood. The penny just hasn't dropped with him that negative tactics and poor substitutions have cost us big over his time. Wonder if he gets his stategy from football manager 2011 forums, expect Billy sharp and freddy adu in January... Edited December 30, 2010 by Hafnia2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted December 30, 2010 Report Share Posted December 30, 2010 Idiot, the man is a stubborn surly idiot. Sorry, woke up in a bad mood. That's not a nice way to speak about Mark ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted December 30, 2010 Report Share Posted December 30, 2010 That's not a nice way to speak about Mark ! I'm in tears here . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted December 30, 2010 Report Share Posted December 30, 2010 That's not a nice way to speak about Mark ! Ha ha just edited, yes been doing a bit of research on results, formations, stand out decisions and I'm afraid it ain't good reading. It would be ok if the bad decisions were early in his time so you could least plot a learning curve where the baffling poor choices were a rarity later on, sadly it seems he has regressed big time. If my source is correct and we get adebuyor, it could seriously give us the type of player we need in the 4-5-1 formation he is so determined to stick to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted December 30, 2010 Report Share Posted December 30, 2010 The only explanation I can imagine is Moyes is selling JV, Yak and Saha and didn't want to risk injury, with Anichebe suspended that leaves Beckford who he obviously doesn't rate at this level! Lets face it none of our strikers have played well enough to expect a place, neither has Arteta. I think there might be some truth in what The Beard has suggested (if Osman doesnt play we are shit). I would select him ahead of Arteta and Rodwell at the moment, and he would play a more advanced role than Arteta and give more assistance to Cahill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted December 30, 2010 Report Share Posted December 30, 2010 Blimey, osman could be our Kevin Richardson, steve nichol, makelele, deschamps, Roy keane. A man who despite appearing to do very little in the way of the spectacular, his inclusion is appreciated by those around him and those tactically aware enough to appreciate his finer points. I'm off out to buy one of those machines that Andy gray has... Maybe it may tell us what Billy does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted December 30, 2010 Report Share Posted December 30, 2010 Did anyone else feel like Moyes might have made one of his biggest mistakes in charge of Everton in our last match against West Ham? How do you reason benching three struggling strikers in a game against this season's most apparent punching bag, when they are all sorely needing of playing time and any eventual goals? How did Arteta earn a place having missed several games due to a silly ban, and having played out of form for the better part of this season? I agree that Rodders and Fellaini deserved to continue in midfield after their City performance, but wouldn't this have been the perfect game for Beckford to get a run in from the start, and Cahill in his preferred (and best) role as playing off the man up top? Yak gave a really poor showing of himself, which is sad 'cause he had been looking a bit more interested but does anyone else feel like he plays his worst and most lazy when he's put under pressure and doesn't get an automatic starting berth? Bleh. I just wish Moyes would play any one of our strikers, even Saha at this point, before playing Tiny Tim up front with Arty in support as that combination just does nothing for our fighting spirit-reliant midfield. They have all had plenty of playing time and none of them are up to the job I could understand why everybody seems to be so upset about Moyes leaving out the strikers if we had a couple of hungry 20 goals a season forwards just chomping at the bit waitng in the wings but we havent. They have all been given plenty of opportunities this season to stake a claim and make the position thier own but all have failed spectacularly. Moyes has done a fantastic job for this club and for fickle fans to turn on him so quickly as soon as we hit a rough patch is ridiculous. Fair enough nobody is beyond critisicm but calling for his head is a joke. Who do you people think would do a better job?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted December 30, 2010 Report Share Posted December 30, 2010 You mean he's given saha a chance too many, he gets yak fit and playing well against Liverpool and Birmingham only to drop him when he was starting to look sharp. Beckford has had few opportunities and due to the few opportunities the pressure is greater, and he is one striker that seems to have got into the positions to miss. I feel sorry for the lad. Moyes record with strikers is poor, tell me one striker thst has got better over time under moyes reign? Beattie, Saha, Johnson, yak even jo lost effectiveness over time under moyes, why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted December 30, 2010 Report Share Posted December 30, 2010 Moyes' handling of our strikers this season has been baffling to say the least. Couldnt agree more. Surely none of them are going to be particularly well motivated. It was noticeable how great the spirit was between the rest of them against City but I wonder how happy the likes of Yak, Becks and to an extent Saha were? They have all had plenty of playing time and none of them are up to the job I could understand why everybody seems to be so upset about Moyes leaving out the strikers if we had a couple of hungry 20 goals a season forwards just chomping at the bit waitng in the wings but we havent. They have all been given plenty of opportunities this season to stake a claim and make the position thier own but all have failed spectacularly. Moyes has done a fantastic job for this club and for fickle fans to turn on him so quickly as soon as we hit a rough patch is ridiculous. Fair enough nobody is beyond critisicm but calling for his head is a joke. Who do you people think would do a better job?? Only Saha has had a consistent run though, Beckford should really have been thrown in at the deep end and of the games Yakubu has started he has looked more than good in at least half of them. People are pissed because our main goal scoring threat is Cahill yet he moves him out of position to accomodate Arteta/Rodwell. The strikers may not be firing but surely if one of them plays only to make Cahill much more of a threat then its worth it? Its as if he is pressing the panic button. Trying things in games isnt the answer, that desperation. He has set us up to play well, attack and win games in the past but for someone reason he doesnt seem to want to go back to that. Its not the first rough patch though is it? These problems have been evident ever since we started crafting a good squad. We have seen him do well before and get the team playing good football and defending well and I am confident that at somepoint he will again, but I am also confident we will go through another barron patch like this playing silly tactics, playing the wrong players and making joke subs. You would think he would learn from the first time he made them mistakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted January 1, 2011 Report Share Posted January 1, 2011 You mean he's given saha a chance too many, he gets yak fit and playing well against Liverpool and Birmingham only to drop him when he was starting to look sharp. Beckford has had few opportunities and due to the few opportunities the pressure is greater, and he is one striker that seems to have got into the positions to miss. I feel sorry for the lad. Moyes record with strikers is poor, tell me one striker thst has got better over time under moyes reign? Beattie, Saha, Johnson, yak even jo lost effectiveness over time under moyes, why? marcus bent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 1, 2011 Report Share Posted January 1, 2011 marcus bent He got better? Really? For me he stayed the same, a typical moyes workmanlike player at the time. Void of any creativity and sharpness, we relied on him to run his legs off, which he did very well. Improve as a striker - not a chance. With Marcus bent you got what was on the tin, hard work and the odd finish. Happy new year all by the way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev627 Posted January 1, 2011 Report Share Posted January 1, 2011 Has anybody else had enough of Moyse saying "we deserved better"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 1, 2011 Report Share Posted January 1, 2011 Has anybody else had enough of Moyse saying "we deserved better"? Me, many posts ago. Plus that drama queen teary eyed, boys pen, tommy Steele, elvis in London cannon ball kid charlatan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted January 1, 2011 Report Share Posted January 1, 2011 marcus bent He got better? Really? For me he stayed the same, a typical moyes workmanlike player at the time. Void of any creativity and sharpness, we relied on him to run his legs off, which he did very well. Improve as a striker - not a chance. With Marcus bent you got what was on the tin, hard work and the odd finish. Happy new year all by the way... The one player that we have in the team with similar qualities but more skill is Vaughan but he wont get a look in. He is guarenteed to run everywhere if you ask him to. Maybe thats what we need right now?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy the blue Posted January 1, 2011 Report Share Posted January 1, 2011 The one player that we have in the team with similar qualities but more skill is Vaughan but he wont get a look in. He is guarenteed to run everywhere if you ask him to. Maybe thats what we need right now?! This Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blueboy122 Posted January 1, 2011 Report Share Posted January 1, 2011 Agreed, James Vaughan looks like a great striker to me, hes quick got a little bit of skill he can take on people win headers and run all day long, I cant understand why we would ever want to sell him or move him out on loan, i would have him up front over any of our other forwards all day long, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcrawfor Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 JV will run everywhere you ask him to for about 20 mins, at which point his knee will fall off. Should have been sold some time ago when his worth was closer to 4 million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 You mean he's given saha a chance too many, he gets yak fit and playing well against Liverpool and Birmingham only to drop him when he was starting to look sharp. Beckford has had few opportunities and due to the few opportunities the pressure is greater, and he is one striker that seems to have got into the positions to miss. I feel sorry for the lad. Moyes record with strikers is poor, tell me one striker thst has got better over time under moyes reign? Beattie, Saha, Johnson, yak even jo lost effectiveness over time under moyes, why? Andy Johnson played the best football of his career under Moyes which got him into the England team, Marcus Bent hasnt played as well for any manager as he did under Moyse. The Yaks best ever season in English football was under Moyse. Jo had his mos effective period in English football playing for Moyse. Wayne Rooney developed perfectly well under Moyse. I would even go as far as to say that Big Vics game has improved greatly over the past couple of years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy the blue Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 (edited) Andy Johnson played the best football of his career under Moyes which got him into the England team, Marcus Bent hasnt played as well for any manager as he did under Moyse. The Yaks best ever season in English football was under Moyse. Jo had his mos effective period in English football playing for Moyse. Wayne Rooney developed perfectly well under Moyse. I would even go as far as to say that Big Vics game has improved greatly over the past couple of years Wow Dunc's you really are stuck on Moyes lad. Try these few for size, Bily lost all confidence and faith under Moyes, the Yak has played his worst football under Moyes, Garbut..............career has stopped under Moyes, Beckford enough said about him, Saha lost his scoring touch under Moyes, an entire team low on confidence under Moyes and I'm sure many more can be added to that list. He did inspire on arrival more so than most but to continue to credit him with giving confidence to a shellshocked outfit representing us at present is laughable mate. As a measure of confidence he has given this season we have won just four games out of twenty, relagation form. Incredibly the shite have been at their lowest point in 57 years and we managed to go lower........................no wonder so many are pissed off with him Just for the record Wolves have won more games than we have this season and Mick McCarthy is favourite to get the sack! Edited January 2, 2011 by Jimmy the blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 Wow Dunc's you really are stuck on Moyes lad. Try these few for size, Bily lost all confidence and faith under Moyes, the Yak has played his worst football under Moyes, Garbut..............career has stopped under Moyes, Beckford enough said about him, Saha lost his scoring touch under Moyes, an entire team low on confidence under Moyes and I'm sure many more can be added to that list. He did inspire on arrival more so than most but to continue to credit him with giving confidence to a shellshocked outfit representing us at present is laughable mate. As a measure of confidence he has given this season we have won just four games out of twenty, relagation form. Incredibly the shite have been at their lowest point in 57 years and we managed to go lower........................no wonder so many are pissed off with him Just for the record Wolves have won more games than we have this season and Mick McCarthy is favourite to get the sack! How exactly has Garbutts career stopped under Moyes? He has played regularly for the reserves and has won European U17 Championship with England . He is a regular international for his age group and has gone on to captain his country. He is only 17 so I would say his career is looking just fine The question was to name one striker that has imroved under Moyse and I was just pointing out a few who had. Bily just hasnt worked out the English game is clearly too fast and too physical for him so its nothing to do with Moyes ruining his confidence I would beg to differ that the Yak has played his worst football under Moyes because I know plenty of Borro and Pompey fans who will tell you that he did exactly the same thing at thier clubs I agree the side is low on confidence but we will bounce back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy the blue Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 How exactly has Garbutts career stopped under Moyes? He has played regularly for the reserves and has won European U17 Championship with England . He is a regular international for his age group and has gone on to captain his country. He is only 17 so I would say his career is looking just fine The question was to name one striker that has imroved under Moyse and I was just pointing out a few who had. Bily just hasnt worked out the English game is clearly too fast and too physical for him so its nothing to do with Moyes ruining his confidence I would beg to differ that the Yak has played his worst football under Moyes because I know plenty of Borro and Pompey fans who will tell you that he did exactly the same thing at thier clubs I agree the side is low on confidence but we will bounce back. Just tell me this Dunc's why doesn't Garbut get a seat on the bench? Again why does he choose to let kids sit there week in week out...........how does that instill confidence, sorry mate. Incidentally Moyes knew what the Yak was like and he hasn't managed to change him either instead he weighed more than I do and that's saying something. Gus Hiddinck recommended Bily to us, he is a far better manager that DM so was he wrong as well or has Moyes missed something. How can Bily's confidence improve week in and week out when he sees the greedy selfish prick Saha ruining chance after chance...............great confidence boosting message that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 I just don't think Moyes is a particularly good man manager tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 I just don't think Moyes is a particularly good man manager tbh. Unless your one of his favourites! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 Unless your one of his favourites! That's all a part of his shite man management though tbh. Surely to keep playing Arteta is destroying Mikky's confidence? He can't have no noticed how shit he's been, the groans of the crowd when he gives the ball away 10+ times a game must have got to him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 That's all a part of his shite man management though tbh. Surely to keep playing Arteta is destroying Mikky's confidence? He can't have no noticed how shit he's been, the groans of the crowd when he gives the ball away 10+ times a game must have got to him? It certainly seems so, he looks a bit like a sheep in the headlights at times in the last couple of times. I thought it was brilliant when Osman came on, you could see him barking at players, you could tell he was up for the fight and he put in a crunching challenge within about 30secs in to send a message. These are all traits that Arteta would have shown last season, but have gone amiss this season. On yesterdays performance only Distin, Baines, Pienaar, Felli, Coleman and Cahill looked like they wanted to win and get stuck in. The others looked lost, distracted and werent at the races. To win games in the Premiership you cant afford to have passengers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 Moyes is making us have passengers all over the place. Personally, I'd rather have a player who is in form but with less ability than someone with more ability but is horribly out of form. Yesterday, because we had Arteta and Saha playing we effectively had 9 players. That's without taking into account that Jags and Neville had poor games too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 Andy Johnson played the best football of his career under Moyes which got him into the England team, Marcus Bent hasnt played as well for any manager as he did under Moyse. The Yaks best ever season in English football was under Moyse. Jo had his mos effective period in English football playing for Moyse. Wayne Rooney developed perfectly well under Moyse. I would even go as far as to say that Big Vics game has improved greatly over the past couple of years I think AJ probably had his best times for Palace and before he started getting injured all the time he looked good for Fulham. Like Yakubu he did well in his first season but after that, my nan had a better chance of scoring. These two are players that were already firing before they came here having great seasonf for their respective clubs. Moyes did well to keep them going but the goal return from the following season once he had really got his claws into them is poor. Marcus Bent is probably the one stand out performer and in truth he probably had the worst skill level. Not sure we can say too much about Jo, he has already scored 3 goals this season for City, when he only scored 5 for us in a whole season playing more games. He also scored 3 for city before he came here in less appearances so thats a bit of a straw clutch for me! Yeh Big Vic has done alright and I think JV would have done well had he been fit. I think there are more failures that successes, especially when it comes to the strikers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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