England vs Spain

[Bailey]

Did anyone else watch this game and think it was a very Everton-esque performance from a couple of seasons back? The way that England team was set up is pretty much what I have been screaming for, for the last two years from Moyes. It might not be pretty but its effective, and Jagielka & Lescott were immense together along with Parker in front of them. The back 4 and the midfield worked so well as a unit and suffocated Spain brilliantly, with good marking & pressing. While the back line did drop a little deep at times, as soon as they got the opportunity they tried to get as high up the pitch as possible, which something we really lack at Everton.

 

I will fully admit that it doesnt always produce the greatest attacking displays and that is mainly where a strong striker who can hold the ball up well comes into play, especially if he has enough pace to get in behind. For England, Bent was pretty useless at doing those things, and pretty much everyone that has seen him play will know thats not where his strengths lie, and it really hindered us getting on the ball and keeping any meaningful possession. When Welbeck came on, he offered better link up play, and while I think he should have worked a lot harder at times to win the ball back, we built better counter attacks with him on the pitch.

 

Phil Jones also didnt help too much in keeping possession because he isnt a natural midfielder. When he got on the ball, he didnt use it well enough, and consistently made the wrong decision, whereas Lampard more often than not, did keep hold of the ball well and had his best game for England for a long time. It was nice to see Rodwell get some minutes and he did quite well. It was impressive to see him try and burst forward to support Welbeck, as he was the only midfielder in the game to do so.

 

To sum up the point of this post, it reminded me of the things we used to do so well and made every team in the Premiership wary of playing us. It was the same type of performance that helped us beat the likes of Man Utd, Chelsea & Man City as well as get us into Europe and into a Cup Final. They were the type of dogged, determined performances that made me proud to be an Evertonian and proud to sing Moyes' name. However, it has also reminded me of how far we have fallen below them standards, and leaves me wondering how a team of heroes now seem to be defeated before a ball is even kicked.

[Avinalaff]

The last 10 minutes showed what happens when teams sit back and defend against quality.

 

England were undone far too many times, and fortunate not to concede. 'Never' sit back and let your opponent hit you.

[FanchesterCity]

Good performance, people on TalkSport going over the top with 'Amazing England'.

 

Rodwell wasn't on long enough to really get a good look, but was on long enough to suggest he deserves more appearances.

 

People ranting and rating over Parker - who I thought had a decent game.

 

Jags looked ok too.

 

 

All in all I'd say it was the sort of performance we desire from England. I just don't get why he's going to revert to the half the old guard again against Sweden.

 

Let's give these lads (and a few more) a good run, and if that means not doing so well in the Euros so be it. The sooner we bed them in, the sooner they'll come to fruition.

[Avinalaff]

I think the fact that there have been 57 views and only 2 replies shows International football isn't the subject on everybody's lips lol. I thought with 2 of our players on the pitch that this thread would have been quite lively.

[FanchesterCity]

Must admit, it bores me these days. Come major competitions I'm right behind them, but feel so let down so often it's untrue.

 

Plus, it does feel very 'cliquey'. If you're in the England club, you're in, or if you're in a top team you stand a chance - everybody else has no hope.

 

A lot of players make it into that team because of the teams they are in. If 'Fergie' thinks they are good, they must be. Or if they are top of the league, must be our best. It's a shocking myth.

[Matt]

bored stiff the whole game by both teams. Spain did theyre usual flapping around at a gust of wind, whining and moaning and boring everyone with the passing. Jags has obviously taken his distribution skills and shown the England team how to hoof and lose possession. Awful game and amazed that Lampard had to be reminded that the ball was going to spin in before he went to steal the headlines and that Bent deserved the credit.

 

Oh, and how Glen Johnson and Cole are allowed in the white shirt is beyond me, they were utterly useless yesterday.

[FanchesterCity]

He clearly has an issue with Richards and so Johnson gets the nod time and again. I don't care if he doesn't like Richards - pick someone else, but Johnson's done nothing to warrant a place.

 

I don't feel quite so badly about Cole, but he's another of the 'guaranteed' lot. Let's try Baines for 4 games (whether he plays well or not) then decide if Baines deserves a longer try out.

 

We need to be merciless - Bye to Lamps, Bye to Gerrard, bye to Ferdinand, bye to Terry, I feel a bit sorry for Bent, how probably should have been given a chance earlier, but he's getting on now too. So (even though I don't like him) it's time to get Sturridge in, and any other young English striker.

[Avinalaff]

Johnson has been out injured. He has only played 3 games plus a 10 minute appearance against Stoke. It's a perfect example of players apparently having England squad guarantees as opposed to playing the guys who are in form. He's good in attack, but not so great at defending.

 

I would be picking Richards based on form, or perish the thought even Hibbert, who has been great, especially when you consider if he was to play Jags and Lescott, you would have 3 players from that great Everton defence of a few years back. Drop Cole and add Baines, and you have the complete set, who are all used to playing together.

[FanchesterCity]

Yep, it's the 'England Club'.

 

Richards isn't perfect, he dives too much, but he's at least as good as Johnson. I expect at least half the league right backs are as good!, besides, there's not always a need for them to be going forwards when we have decent wingers.

 

As for Cole, like I say, I don't think he's poor, it's just more a case of Capello and his old guard. We don't KNOW how good Baines is unless we give him a go. At least he's in the squad, but Capello (and previous managers) have a habit of just putting folks in the squad as a gesture, giving a lad 20 mins and we never see them again!

 

The case for Baines (imo) is stronger than for Rodwell. Although Rodwell is so young, there's probably more promise in him.

[Avinalaff]

Yep, it's the 'England Club'.

 

Richards isn't perfect, he dives too much, but he's at least as good as Johnson. I expect at least half the league right backs are as good!, besides, there's not always a need for them to be going forwards when we have decent wingers.

 

As for Cole, like I say, I don't think he's poor, it's just more a case of Capello and his old guard. We don't KNOW how good Baines is unless we give him a go. At least he's in the squad, but Capello (and previous managers) have a habit of just putting folks in the squad as a gesture, giving a lad 20 mins and we never see them again!

 

The case for Baines (imo) is stronger than for Rodwell. Although Rodwell is so young, there's probably more promise in him.

 

At International level, you have to be 'ready' to go.

Promise is fine for clubs, but you don't play for your country (or at least shouldn't) unless you are the best the country has.

 

The old club have the best experience, which is worth it's weight in gold, but the 'new' school must gain that experience, and the best time for this is in friendlies, or to mix them in with the old school a few at a time, which is what Capello is doing. They're all professionals after all, so the transition isn't so severe when all is considered.

[pete0]

I want to know how Jones has gone from 4th choice U21 centre back to make shift midfielder for the fulll team where we have an abundance of better players. Walcott can run but not much else, same goes for Glenn Johnson. Lampard has a good game once again when Gerrard doesnt play, but he'll be straight back in to fuck the balance up when he's fit. England team's a joke.

[Avinalaff]

I want to know how Jones has gone from 4th choice U21 centre back to make shift midfielder for the fulll team where we have an abundance of better players. Walcott can run but not much else, same goes for Glenn Johnson. Lampard has a good game once again when Gerrard doesnt play, but he'll be straight back in to fuck the balance up when he's fit. England team's a joke.

 

He is a first team United player. That means you get a free get in the England set up card.

[pete0]

 

He is a first team United player. That means you get a free get in the England set up card.

I thought that at first but surely Smalling would be chosen first.

[FanchesterCity]

Who can explain the mind of the miracle that is Capello?

Not me

[Avinalaff]

I thought that at first but surely Smalling would be chosen first.

 

Smalling is injured and out until December with a toe injury. Young is also injured which might explain why some lads got a run out.

[Avinalaff]

Who can explain the mind of the miracle that is Capello?

Not me

 

Does Capello select the squad, or just the 11 plus subs?

[FanchesterCity]

My honest opinion is that most international managers do sod all.

They choose from the leading teams and go with the star names.

 

They pick the 11 biggest stars 80% of the time, and then give a 'bit of a nod' to up and coming players by playing them for 20 mins in friendlies.

 

How else can anybody really explain Johnson? how?

 

Yesterday was possibly one of the first times Capello actually really shuffled the pack to any proper degree (but didn't go all the way) - and immediately announced that for the Sweden game, we has bringing back some of the old stalwarts.

 

Milner - he's not improved whilst at City. Either he was good enough before, or it's because he's at City that he's getting a game now.

Lescott - not improved whilst at City. He was good, took a dip and is now back to good. So it's cos it's City.

 

Let me rephrase - it's not cos it's City, it's cos they are top of the league - therefore makes it easier to pick those players. I think you understand what I mean.

 

Phil Jones would not be in the team if still at Blackburn. Shocking really.

[Avinalaff]

My honest opinion is that most international managers do sod all.

They choose from the leading teams and go with the star names.

 

They pick the 11 biggest stars 80% of the time, and then give a 'bit of a nod' to up and coming players by playing them for 20 mins in friendlies.

 

How else can anybody really explain Johnson? how?

 

Yesterday was possibly one of the first times Capello actually really shuffled the pack to any proper degree (but didn't go all the way) - and immediately announced that for the Sweden game, we has bringing back some of the old stalwarts.

 

Milner - he's not improved whilst at City. Either he was good enough before, or it's because he's at City that he's getting a game now.

Lescott - not improved whilst at City. He was good, took a dip and is now back to good. So it's cos it's City.

 

Let me rephrase - it's not cos it's City, it's cos they are top of the league - therefore makes it easier to pick those players. I think you understand what I mean.

 

Phil Jones would not be in the team if still at Blackburn. Shocking really.

 

The mind set is changing gradually.

 

Many players deserved their chance ages ago, but the team was clogged up with 'superstars'.

 

The problem in my opinion with superstars is that they work their asses off to get there, but once they've been at the top of the game for a while, they become stale, and the hard work often diminishes.

 

Getting players in the squad at the right time is the secret I think, and this means knowing who is on the up, and who is willing to give everything to get there. Experience is great, but it must be mixed with working your ass off and having the form.

[FanchesterCity]

Competition for places. Nobody can be safe. As soon as they're safe, they get cocky and complacent

[EFC-Paul]

Not sure why alot of fans (Manure) mainly are raving about Jones he looks a big dozy clumsy git to me but as said sadly with the England set up its who you are and who you play for.

 

I'd love to get shut of "the old faces" now they have had many a chance and never stepped up to the plate the only player I can remember giving it a good go in recent years was Hargreaves.

 

--------------HART

 

RICHARDS---JAGS--LESCOTT---COLE

 

-------------PARKER

 

JOHNSON-------------------YOUNG

 

------------WILSHERE

 

-------ROONEY

-------------------STURRIDGE

 

Thats what I would start with for the Euro's if possible.

I'm sick of us experimenting We seem to have been doing that for the last decade or so get a young squad who are as good if not better then their predecessors who have hunger and time to gel.

[Avinalaff]

Not sure why alot of fans (Manure) mainly are raving about Jones he looks a big dozy clumsy git to me but as said sadly with the England set up its who you are and who you play for.

 

I'd love to get shut of "the old faces" now they have had many a chance and never stepped up to the plate the only player I can remember giving it a good go in recent years was Hargreaves.

 

--------------HART

 

RICHARDS---JAGS--LESCOTT---COLE

 

-------------PARKER

 

JOHNSON-------------------YOUNG

 

------------WILSHERE

 

-------ROONEY

-------------------STURRIDGE

 

Thats what I would start with for the Euro's if possible.

I'm sick of us experimenting We seem to have been doing that for the last decade or so get a young squad who are as good if not better then their predecessors who have hunger and time to gel.

 

We can discuss players until the cows come home, but does Bent not deserve a crack after being in good form for many seasons, despite not playing for a top team?

[Hafnia]

Bent is a victim of the set up, should have been picked when in form but wasn't. Sturridge and wellbeck are younger and on a par with him.

 

The important part is find finding rooneys partner

[FanchesterCity]

Rooney's Parner?

 

I've put an advert in for a woman, over 50, own teeth not essential. Must be discreet.

[pete0]

Not sure why alot of fans (Manure) mainly are raving about Jones he looks a big dozy clumsy git to me but as said sadly with the England set up its who you are and who you play for.

 

I'd love to get shut of "the old faces" now they have had many a chance and never stepped up to the plate the only player I can remember giving it a good go in recent years was Hargreaves.

 

--------------HART

 

RICHARDS---JAGS--LESCOTT---COLE

 

-------------PARKER

 

JOHNSON-------------------YOUNG

 

------------WILSHERE

 

-------ROONEY

-------------------STURRIDGE

 

Thats what I would start with for the Euro's if possible.

I'm sick of us experimenting We seem to have been doing that for the last decade or so get a young squad who are as good if not better then their predecessors who have hunger and time to gel.

Like the set up, but Walker at RB, Hibbo should have a shout before Richards. Downing, Young and Johnson depending on form. Keeper wise who ever is on form as well. Lampard reserved for big games with Wilshire pushed out wide.

No place for Terry, Rio, or Gerrard.

[pete0]

Bent is a victim of the set up, should have been picked when in form but wasn't. Sturridge and wellbeck are younger and on a par with him. The important part is find finding rooneys partner

I don't think Bent's actually that good, he only scores goals in teams built around him. He looked useless against us and more so against Spain, you'd be mad to waste a squad with as much talent as England has, to accommodate him. As you say its more important to find a player to complement Rooney Edited November 13, 2011 by pete0

[marcus jones]

Rooney's Parner?

 

I've put an advert in for a woman, over 50, own teeth not essential. Must be discreet.

That''ll be Gerrards ma then!

[EFC-Paul]

 

Rooney's Parner?

 

 

I've put an advert in for a woman, over 50, own teeth not essential. Must be discreet.

 

 

Haha

 

 

Avin a feel sorry for Bent He should have been given a good shot at International level for some time but sadly for some reason has not.

 

 

 

I really don't think He would compliment Rooney aswel as Sturridge or even Welbeck, He's more of a lone striker for which we have better options.

 

 

 

As with most of the current set-up Fresh faces are needed they have for some time and at the moment I think we have a crop of young players who are not methodically direct and dull who have pace and play more "foreign type football" then the shite we have endured for the last decade.We need to stop changing things around and find a team and stick with it.

 

 

Pete I think Richards is very overlooked Walker looks like He could become a good player but I just think Richards has played well for City and should be given a crack.

 

 

Any of those two would do aslong as G.Johnson is omitted to put it bluntly the mans gash..

 

Sorry for the big spaces but why's it so much hard work editing posts with all those daft

 

's and everything becomes scrunched together

Edited November 13, 2011 by EFC-Paul

[EFC-Paul]

Oh FFS not editing that againg what a ball ache those P's in the brackets can get fcuked!

Edited November 13, 2011 by EFC-Paul

[pete0]

Haha

 

 

Avin a feel sorry for Bent He should have been given a good shot at International level for some time but sadly for some reason has not.

 

 

 

I really don't think He would compliment Rooney aswel as Sturridge or even Welbeck, He's more of a lone striker for which we have better options.

 

 

 

As with most of the current set-up Fresh faces are needed they have for some time and at the moment I think we have a crop of young players who are not methodically direct and dull who have pace and play more "foreign type football" then the shite we have endured for the last decade.We need to stop changing things around and find a team and stick with it.

 

 

Pete I think Richards is very overlooked Walker looks like He could become a good player but I just think Richards has played well for City and should be given a crack.

 

 

Any of those two would do aslong as G.Johnson is omitted to put it bluntly the mans gash..

 

Sorry for the big spaces but why's it so much hard work editing posts with all those daft

 

's and everything becomes scrunched together

I like him at RB when he was fresh on the scene and raw, but sadly hasn't lived up to the potential. Too cocky and lazy, never seen a centre-half lose so many 50-50s or not even attempt to put a foot in some cases maybe a half-arse swing of the boot. He reminds me of the kid who'd go home if it starting raining and take the ball with him. Onouha would be much more deserving.

[SimonButtle]

Walcott and Johnson should never wear the three lions again, shocking display it was, thing with Cole is, if he ever gets injured at least we have a first class, if not better replacement to come straight into the team in Baines.