Guardiola

[weebittight]

He is the top man/best coach for me. Tweaked a few things that will make Bayern even better I think. Reacted positively to criticism from ex Bayern players <who are always ready with an opinion> instead of taking the hump.

 

Seems he took the year out partly because Mourinho had dragged things into the gutter towards the end of his time with Barca and added to his burn out. United should have done everything they could do get this chap. Perhaps they did.

 

 

[Romey 1878]

I must admit that I had my reservation about whether he was a good coach or whether he just couldn't fail with Barca. Even though he inherited a great team at Bayern as well he's put his own stamp on them and they're doing the business and looking really good. Like you said, he took criticism from the mouthy ones in the background there but he's stuck to his guns because he believed in his methods and he's having the last laugh (for now, at least).

[Hafnia]

Great manager, doesnt have the ego that ensure perma clashes with players. He dropped Messi once to rest him, Messi threw his toys out the pram as he wanted to play - guardiola simply took it as a learning "you don't rest messi when he doesnt want to be rested". That would go against the likes of many wanna be fergies... the thing is Fergie knew the players he had to tolerate to a certain degree.

 

Players will respond to manager when they know their voices are heard and they can be treated like adults.

 

There's a fine line between becoming a disciplinarian with troublesome players and taking on board feedback from good professionals

 

Guardiola was the manager united should have got - fergie waited too long

[weebittight]

Great manager, doesnt have the ego that ensure perma clashes with players. He dropped Messi once to rest him, Messi threw his toys out the pram as he wanted to play - guardiola simply took it as a learning "you don't rest messi when he doesnt want to be rested". That would go against the likes of many wanna be fergies... the thing is Fergie knew the players he had to tolerate to a certain degree.

 

Players will respond to manager when they know their voices are heard and they can be treated like adults.

 

There's a fine line between becoming a disciplinarian with troublesome players and taking on board feedback from good professionals

 

Guardiola was the manager united should have got - fergie waited too long

 

Yes. You are only going to be short term if you manufacture arguments to get what you want a la Jose. He will inevitably fall out with almost everyone but because he can point to great success it doesn't seem to tarnish him. I much prefer the dignity of PG

 

Seems Guardiola had a lot of hurdles to overcome and changes to make in his early days with Barca. When he "inherited" Messi for example the boy was playing on the right wing.

[Avinalaff]

I'd like to see him win a Champions League or Division title with a mid table side.

 

It's great winning a race, but stick Michael Schumacher in a Lada and he will finish last. Stick them all in Lada's and my granny in a Formula 1 and she will be crowned World Champion at the end of the year. She certainly wouldn't be the best driver though.

 

I look upon the Mourinhos and Guardiola's as fortunate. It is impossible to label them as the best without acknowledging their circumstances.

[Peter H]

Great manager, doesnt have the ego that ensure perma clashes with players. He dropped Messi once to rest him, Messi threw his toys out the pram as he wanted to play - guardiola simply took it as a learning "you don't rest messi when he doesnt want to be rested". That would go against the likes of many wanna be fergies... the thing is Fergie knew the players he had to tolerate to a certain degree.

 

Players will respond to manager when they know their voices are heard and they can be treated like adults.

 

There's a fine line between becoming a disciplinarian with troublesome players and taking on board feedback from good professionals

 

Guardiola was the manager united should have got - fergie waited too long

Pep did not speak to Ibrahimovic when Messi wanted to play up front. He couldnt even look Ibra in the eyes, didnt tell him why he wasnt getting game time and all of this after Ibra became the most successful first season player for Barca ever. He dropped him and could not face telling him the truth, that Messi is a spoilt little bitch that became jealous of the attention Ibra was getting.

 

Barca had to sell Ibra at a massive loss and bough David Villa, another puppet for the Barca circus. Villa wasnt half the striker Ibra was at the time and it showed.

 

Guardiola is a puppet and a muppet. Anyone would win with Barca and the same goes for BM. Give Pep a team like Spurs or Arsenal and he would choke. Give him players like Ronaldo, Ibra, Balotelli and he will get scared shitless. Cant handle difficult characters.

[GoodisonRoad]

Get out his arse pete!

 

Your sounding like Mirallas and Belgian players, its a little embarrasing. We get it he is a good player, a very good player at times and hes swedish. But he didnt suit the way Guardiola wanted to play with Barca. Simple. He is not as good as messi by some way, that is why he didnt play.

[Peter H]

I know Ibra was born in sweden but he grew up in Rosengård which is an area with mostly imigrants. His ego and personality is much more balkans than swedish so I dont see him as a typical Swede and he would be the first to agree.

 

In the beginning Pep played both players. Messi slightly behind Ibra. Is Messi better? Yes absolutely, the man is probably the best player ever. He is a child though and runs to daddy when he does not get what he wants. Several players have witnessed this.

 

Ibra scored something like 16 goals in just over half a season. Hows that for not suiting barcas style of play?

 

How many times have i gone on about Ibra really? Dont think its that much.

Edited October 3, 2013 by Peter H

[Sibdane]

You can say Pep inherited a great team (and he did), but Barca haven't been the same since he left.

 

Moyes inherited a championship-winning team and look where they are now. You could argue that the teams around him have improved and left him behind, but I still don't think WBA had the better squad when they beat MANU at OT. Not a dig at Moyes by any means, just a comparison.

 

To me, Pep has the tactical guile that could rival any manager and the tact of Martinez.

[Hafnia]

Is this the same Ibrahimovic who fell out with Blanc at PSG and no longer speaks to the AC Milan chairman?

 

I don't think much needs to be criticised in guardiolas behaviour, his dignity when faced with Mourinhos antics were that of "don't react" - maybe thats exactly what he did to Ibrahimovic. Without knowing him, his behaviour on the pitch when I have seen him is petulant and arrogant.

[Sibdane]

Is this the same Ibrahimovic who fell out with Blanc at PSG and no longer speaks to the AC Milan chairman?

 

I don't think much needs to be criticised in guardiolas behaviour, his dignity when faced with Mourinhos antics were that of "don't react" - maybe thats exactly what he did to Ibrahimovic. Without knowing him, his behaviour on the pitch when I have seen him is petulant and arrogant.

 

Agree. Ibra is one of my favorite players to watch, but he seems like a douchebag, and I wouldn't want to put up with him either.

[GoodisonRoad]

When I say he didn't suit their style of play, I meant he wasn't a part of the direction Guardiola wanted to take the team. A major trait of the Barca team under pep was their closing down and winning the ball back. Could you see Ibra doing that? No. That's not what he's about.

 

See Hafs response for the whole "messi is a child" comment.

 

And I have seen a few posts from you lately in various threads that have mentioned Ibra. Just saying.

[Matt]

I'm pleasantly surprised by his start. I also thought he just drove the Barca boat but he clearly knows how to get his players to play for him with his methods. Yes, he's inherited another very good team, but it's still early doors - signs are good though

 

I understand Avins point too, would've been interesting, and a better show of his skills if he had taken an average team and made them great.

[Romey 1878]

I understand Avins point too, would've been interesting, and a better show of his skills if he had taken an average team and made them great.

Like if he'd taken the United job.

[Matt]

Like if he'd taken the United job.

exactly

[Peter H]

Is this the same Ibrahimovic who fell out with Blanc at PSG and no longer speaks to the AC Milan chairman?

 

I don't think much needs to be criticised in guardiolas behaviour, his dignity when faced with Mourinhos antics were that of "don't react" - maybe thats exactly what he did to Ibrahimovic. Without knowing him, his behaviour on the pitch when I have seen him is petulant and arrogant.

Theres no proof of any falling out with Blanc and even if there was is that the same Blanc that fell out with the entire french national team?

Milan? They sold him and he loves the club. They wanted to get paid and had bitten of more than they could chew in regards to wages etc. Ibra even offered them to cut his wages. He felt forced out of the club he loved.

He works alot harder in defence these days to Haf, when required. Like in the national team. Notas much at PSG when he isnt required to.

 

Im not saying that he is totally innocent. Im sure he can be a right arse. I hate the way he acts towards some of his team mates and the gestures he makes. I much prefer the attitude of Elmander if im to compare with another swede. (If thats allowed GoodisonRoad)

 

But he does get along well with his coaches. He was loved by Anchelotti, Mancini and Mourinho.

 

 

Anyway, sorry about going on about Ibra in this thread, we all have our opinions and i dont rate Pep Guardiola... Yet.

[Peter H]

And I have seen a few posts from you lately in various threads that have mentioned Ibra. Just saying.

You might be right. I do admire the player but not because he is Swedish but because of what he can do on the pitch. Might be a little to do with his nationality but hey, Sweden is a small footballing nation. We need to be proud of the little that we have.

Before Ibra it was Larsson and to some extent Ljungberg.

 

I will take what you wrote into consideration in the future and hold back on the swedes.

[Guest blueboy122]

You might be right. I do admire the player but not because he is Swedish but because of what he can do on the pitch. Might be a little to do with his nationality but hey, Sweden is a small footballing nation. We need to be proud of the little that we have.

Before Ibra it was Larsson and to some extent Ljungberg.

I will take what you wrote into consideration in the future and hold back on the swedes.

How can you forget Nicholas Alexanderson...... And you call yourself a Swede! Shocking

[Hafnia]

Martin dahlin, remember being linked with him a fair bit, but I do like rasmus elm

[Avinalaff]

Martin dahlin, remember being linked with him a fair bit, but I do like rasmus elm

 

In the shadows was ace.

[GoodisonRoad]

You might be right. I do admire the player but not because he is Swedish but because of what he can do on the pitch. Might be a little to do with his nationality but hey, Sweden is a small footballing nation. We need to be proud of the little that we have.

Before Ibra it was Larsson and to some extent Ljungberg.

 

I will take what you wrote into consideration in the future and hold back on the swedes.

Nothing wrong with being proud of where you come from mate. The players you named are/were all great players and like you say Sweden is a small country and you take what you can get (not meaning to sound patronising there btw) but sometimes it seems as though you are being really biased towards Ibra because he is a swede.

 

Like you point out messi's attitude problem (which there is no proof of) but you almost ignore the fact that Ibra has one of the biggest ego's in world football! Oh and I'm sorry I can't believe the sob story about Milan. He was forced out of the club he loves? and the team he goes to just happens to have a new found billionaire investor who will throw money at him? Please.

[Fearthainn]

I'd like to see him win a Champions League or Division title with a mid table side.

 

It's great winning a race, but stick Michael Schumacher in a Lada and he will finish last. Stick them all in Lada's and my granny in a Formula 1 and she will be crowned World Champion at the end of the year. She certainly wouldn't be the best driver though.

 

I look upon the Mourinhos and Guardiola's as fortunate. It is impossible to label them as the best without acknowledging their circumstances.

 

Mourinho fortunate? You cannot be serious. Did you miss his time at Porto? They were 5th in the table when he got there and 3 years without a league title. He transformed them into Portuguese, Uefa Cup and Champions League winners with talent that he found in the Portuguese league. Or even Leiria before that when he took them to their highest finish in the top flight ever? Porto and Inter aren't Ladas, but they aren't Ferraris either. He got the jobs at Chelsea and Real Madrid on merit - not because he was fortunate.

 

As for Pep you could say he was fortunate yes. He is clearly an intelligent manager and seems quite good tactically, although obviously it's difficult to assess his real skill when you manage Barcelona and Bayern. I do feel people give him too much credit for what happened at Barcelona. The real revolution at Barcelona started with Cruyff, Guardiola was just intelligent enough to use the talent available to him correctly and to put the right players in the right places.

Edited October 3, 2013 by Fearthainn

[marcus jones]

When I say he didn't suit their style of play, I meant he wasn't a part of the direction Guardiola wanted to take the team. A major trait of the Barca team under pep was their closing down and winning the ball back. Could you see Ibra doing that? No. That's not what he's about.

 

See Hafs response for the whole "messi is a child" comment.

 

And I have seen a few posts from you lately in various threads that have mentioned Ibra. Just saying.

Ibra was bought because Barca needed some physical presence in the attacking department. ( not my words, just those of the sporting director).

[marcus jones]

 

Mourinho fortunate? You cannot be serious. Did you miss his time at Porto? They were 5th in the table when he got there and 3 years without a league title. He transformed them into Portuguese, Uefa Cup and Champions League winners with talent that he found in the Portuguese league. Or even Leiria before that when he took them to their highest finish in the top flight ever? Porto and Inter aren't Ladas, but they aren't Ferraris either. He got the jobs at Chelsea and Real Madrid on merit - not because he was fortunate.

 

As for Pep you could say he was fortunate yes. He is clearly an intelligent manager and seems quite good tactically, although obviously it's difficult to assess his real skill when you manage Barcelona and Bayern. I do feel people give him too much credit for what happened at Barcelona. The real revolution at Barcelona started with Cruyff, Guardiola was just intelligent enough to use the talent available to him correctly and to put the right players in the right places.

Spot on there, and Brian Clough took a small almost rural club if you like to be back to back European champions. Ask Pep to do that or messi to go to Fulham and win the prem like Marradona with Napoli.

[weebittight]

Putting the right players in the right palces eh? I'd have thought that was the key. I once shifted a girl from centre forward to left back - much to the consternation of her father - a US postal worker who pinned me up against a wall with his chest but I didn't give a fuck and the team improved. The kid liked playing left back an I put her on pens and free-kicks She actually scored more from full back. But enough about my own coaching genius.

 

I loved Cloughie and what he did will never be replicated. But do not understimate the qualities of Guariola. If anyone can make Bayern even better it is him. Maybe he should start posturing, adulterating and gouging people in the eye < from behind> like Mourinho. How so many fawn to this particular cock. On the subject of him. You cannot but admire what he did at Porto - well except for the time-wasting, injury feigning and diving antics he encouraged < continued with the likes of Drogba and Robben at Chelsea>. After that he was not exactly given chopped liver to work with was he?

 

I would argue that PG would do a better job with Fulham than Jol btw. I imagine Messi would help them greatly too.

Edited October 4, 2013 by weebittight

[Fearthainn]

Yeah I thought what I meant was obvious but I'll try to make it clearer

 

He must take the credit of course for finding the perfect way to utilise Messi (although let's be honest, he's good everywhere), for promoting players from the cantera, for taking advantage of the fact that they had been playing possession football since they were young, etc. These are no small feats. But people seem to credit him with creating this high pressing, possession based tiki-taka football that Barcelona are now known for, when this philosophy had been present at the club at all levels for years. Most of the players he started had already had years to gel as well (again, he knew this and that's why he selected them).

 

As for Mourinho and "after that he was not exactly given chopped liver to work with". Well, no he wasn't, but like I said above it was on merit because he won the Champions League with Porto, and he was also given the Porto job because he did well with Leiria.

[weebittight]

Yeah I thought what I meant was obvious but I'll try to make it clearer

 

He must take the credit of course for finding the perfect way to utilise Messi (although let's be honest, he's good everywhere), for promoting players from the cantera, for taking advantage of the fact that they had been playing possession football since they were young, etc. These are no small feats. But people seem to credit him with creating this high pressing, possession based tiki-taka football that Barcelona are now known for, when this philosophy had been present at the club at all levels for years. Most of the players he started had already had years to gel as well (again, he knew this and that's why he selected them).

 

As for Mourinho and "after that he was not exactly given chopped liver to work with". Well, no he wasn't, but like I said above it was on merit because he won the Champions League with Porto, and he was also given the Porto job because he did well with Leiria.

 

He was but Porto were underachieving with some very good footballers - some of whom Mourinho took with him on his travels thereafter - and I have already tipped my cap for same. For someone with two left feet ie a failed player - Mourinho certainly made the most of his opportunities so fair play to the **** I just don't like him - and I refuse to believe everything he says is a "Clever mind game" as some suggest. Sometimes he is just a crasse little pugnacious git.

 

Back to PG. He obviously showed some nous for coaching to go along with his reputation as Barca great so getting the gig so early in his career isn't really luck I would suggest. Different class as an individual but that apart you have to give credit to him for making the transition from player to coach so smoothly. I don't believe anyone could simply have taken over and be ensured of success with Bara as is being suggested by a few people.

 

Your apparent tone and accompanying "Smilie" not appreciated.

[Fearthainn]

My apparent tone and smiley were only because of your apparent sarcasm in your first response to me.

[weebittight]

My apparent tone and smiley were only because of your apparent sarcasm in your first response to me.

Fair enough I am not here to fall out with people.

[Bailey]

 

Mourinho fortunate? You cannot be serious. Did you miss his time at Porto? They were 5th in the table when he got there and 3 years without a league title. He transformed them into Portuguese, Uefa Cup and Champions League winners with talent that he found in the Portuguese league. Or even Leiria before that when he took them to their highest finish in the top flight ever? Porto and Inter aren't Ladas, but they aren't Ferraris either. He got the jobs at Chelsea and Real Madrid on merit - not because he was fortunate.

 

As for Pep you could say he was fortunate yes. He is clearly an intelligent manager and seems quite good tactically, although obviously it's difficult to assess his real skill when you manage Barcelona and Bayern. I do feel people give him too much credit for what happened at Barcelona. The real revolution at Barcelona started with Cruyff, Guardiola was just intelligent enough to use the talent available to him correctly and to put the right players in the right places.

 

Good post. Mourinho started from the bottom and worked his way to the top. His record at every club he has been to is excellent and I have no doubts that Mourinho could take any team and make them perform above themselves. I imagine Pep could also do that but he only has a track record with the (second ) best club in the world.