MC11 Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 Seems to be the same formation. But for me I don't think the wide players are being told to track back? This is leaving us a more exposed. This is the only thing really noticeable for me. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 Not sure? First 2 games we owned the game first for 45 minutes then for 60-70 minutes. What happened there was tiredness. As said by a few...questionable fitness. Against Chelsea. A different scenario really. We fell 2 behind real quick so the only viable option was to go at them. In this scenario, you'd expect your wingers to be pushing on. And it was effective. The problem being that defensively we had a shocker. And again we looked knackered...but that's less surprising as we had to put a lot into it after the shit start. Why would Martinez change tactics after having a successful last season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_E Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 Seems to be the same formation. But for me I don't think the wide players are being told to track back? This is leaving us a more exposed. This is the only thing really noticeable for me. Thoughts? This is something we did at times last season as well, it's nothing new. Check out this clip at about 2:25: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4WWTYbKpOU We don't do this all the time btw. We didn't against Chelsea and even in games where we do, we don't do it throughout and the 10 and weakside winger are asked to drop in so we still defend in something 4-4-2-like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 One thing that did annoy me (may have been down to Chelsea's height) but our fullbacks didn't put in early crosses. Baines has been in a lot less than normal. Wasn't sure if that was intentional or not. When we did put in, we scored (Mirallas) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluenosetoffee Posted September 1, 2014 Report Share Posted September 1, 2014 I don't think we are using a different tactic to last season. Just our defending has been poor that's all. We are still passing the ball well along the ground and getting forward. What annoys me though is that Distin is cool on the ball and looks for the wide players or a player in space and passes it along the ground. Jagielka gets the ball and he still hoofs it up field and then leaves us having to defend again as the opposition are on the counter. Not sure if he has been told to do that or not but all the other defenders don't panic. Against Leicester and Arsenal we played well. Caught them on the counter attack and looked the better team but tiredness kicked in and we conceded late goals in both games. Maybe when we were leading 2-0 against Arsenal he should have put Stones or Besic on and told them to defend and not go forward. Against Arsenal Martinez told Atsu and McGeady to stay up top and wait for the counter. This left us open on the wings and this is why we lost the points (also tiredness). Coleman and Baines were still tracking back but we needed our midfielders to be doing the same. Chelsea was a completely different situation entirely. We didn't do enough closing down on the players and defended poorly. I was screaming at the tele to close them down don't give them space, shut Fabregas out of the game, we didn't, we let them have room and create space which left our defence open. Jags had a poor game and Distin had to do a lot of tracking back. Left players onside which isn't his fault either. Matic goal was a good example of not closing down, he had the ball on the edge of the box, had a touch, noticed nobody was coming towards him, shot and scored. Costa's first goal was poor defending, don't know how Fabregas had that much space to pass the ball. Can't blame Besic for the last goal, he had the ball, back heeled it and it didn't work out. He will learn from that though. Look at how Chelsea played as well they were closing down our players at every opportunity and at times we struggled to get out of our own half. We tried and tried to create space but with Chelsea closing down our players like they did we couldn't cope. Chelsea players looked like they never tire either, they're machines! Overall I think the tactic is working but conceding 10 goals in 3 games isn't a good statistic to look at, but again this is tiredness and overall being sloppy. Let's hope the break will do the players good and come back refreshed. I know they have internationals but let's hope it does them all good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 This is something we did at times last season as well, it's nothing new. Check out this clip at about 2:25: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4WWTYbKpOU We don't do this all the time btw. We didn't against Chelsea and even in games where we do, we don't do it throughout and the 10 and weakside winger are asked to drop in so we still defend in something 4-4-2-like. This. We are basically the same as last year with slight variations from game to game. Unfortunately we are just making a shit load more errors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted September 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 (edited) I am convinced we've been deploying the wingers a lot higher this season. Both pushing on the oppositions full backs! High! The only time I noticed this last season was Arsenal at home. If this is the case no wonder we're struggling at the back! Against Arsenal (this season) Lukaku and Mirallas were high up the pitch for the majority of the game. Edited September 2, 2014 by MiguelCotto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 I am convinced we've been deploying the wingers a lot higher this season. Both pushing on the oppositions full backs! High! The only time I noticed this last season was Arsenal at home. If this is the case no wonder we're struggling at the back! Against Arsenal (this season) Lukaku and Mirallas were high up the pitch for the majority of the game. Have you got anything to show where those convictions come from? Not sure what...I dunno, touches, heat maps, clips, comparisons vs last season? You might be dead right if you can back it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted September 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 Just eyes at the moment mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWooney Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 not heat maps but the fourfourtwo stat zone gives a good indication as to what players were doing. http://www.fourfourtwo.com/statszone/8-2014/matches/755325/player-stats#tabs-wrapper-anchor Click on each player. One telling one was McGeady, while we know he's not a player who will contribute a lot defensively the stats here show that he never made a tackle (successful or otherwise) or any interceptions, didn't make a foul or recover the ball at all. This would show that he wasn't doing a whole lot of defending, either from the front or tracking back. he played 5 passes in his own half. Mirallas on the other hand made 2 successful tackles, 1 unsuccessful, made 1 interception and 1 foul (fouls aren't good but presumably would count as another tackle unless it was for another reason!) From a central role Naismith who we know works hard all over and closes down a lot made 2 interceptions, 3 successful and 1 unsuccessful tackle. impressively he also won the ball in the air 3 times in our half, quite possibly from goal kicks given the position. In the DM roles Barry who didn't have the best of games made 4 tackles with 3 of them unsuccessful, 1 interception and 3 clearances Mccarthy wasn't a whole lot better in that respect with 2 out of 4 tackles successful and 1 interception. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWooney Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 looking at Chelsea's wide men you can see that Willian did an excellent job at getting back making 5 successful tackles in his own half, 4 down his wing stopping Baines from creating anything. Hazard on the other hand is an odd dot to dot, he appeared to have free reign but did very little either in defence or attack. Matic also has interesting stats with plenty of tackles all over the park but not the best of passing. neither him nor Ramirez produce anywhere near the passing Barry and McCarthy do for us and Ramirez seemed primarily to do a lot of clearneces, 3 times he cleared danger from inside the box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluenosetoffee Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 looking at Chelsea's wide men you can see that Willian did an excellent job at getting back making 5 successful tackles in his own half, 4 down his wing stopping Baines from creating anything. Hazard on the other hand is an odd dot to dot, he appeared to have free reign but did very little either in defence or attack. Matic also has interesting stats with plenty of tackles all over the park but not the best of passing. neither him nor Ramirez produce anywhere near the passing Barry and McCarthy do for us and Ramirez seemed primarily to do a lot of clearneces, 3 times he cleared danger from inside the box. Yeah but at the same time you have to look at the passes that Matic, Ramires, Fabregas, Hazard make for Chelsea. They might not have as much on the passing statistic but how many are key passes? Creating chances? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 (edited) Against Arsenal Lukaku was the most attacking with Naismith slightly deeper and then Mirallas deeper than that. Played exactly the same way as we did last season. Chelsea Lukaku was the focal point with the other behind in our more traditional formation (although I havent seen the average position map for this one). Edited September 3, 2014 by Bailey Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted September 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2014 Are people still not convinced that we're now playing with very high wide players? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted September 21, 2014 Report Share Posted September 21, 2014 Are people still not convinced that we're now playing with very high wide players? Is this only going to crop up when we lose? I dunno, did we play the same against WBA and Wolfsburg? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted September 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2014 (edited) We did but we've dropped more points than we've gained this season and I highlighted this a couple of weeks ago. Which (as above) people seemed to disregard. Our wide players last season definitely weren't operating at the heights they are now (bar Arsenal last season). So yes I'm convinced we aren't playing the same way as last season... The season our defensive record was much better. Basically trying to find reason why our defence looks so fragile. It's the same group of players. However I think Jagielka is a major contributor. Stones must play centre half! Edited September 21, 2014 by MiguelCotto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted September 21, 2014 Report Share Posted September 21, 2014 We did but we've dropped more points than we've gained this season and I highlighted this a couple of weeks ago. Which (as above) people seemed to disregard. Our wide players last season definitely weren't operating at the heights they are now (bar Arsenal last season). So yes I'm convinced we aren't playing the same way as last season... The season our defensive record was much better. Basically trying to find reason why our defence looks so fragile. It's the same group of players. However I think Jagielka is a major contributor. Stones must play centre half! We're defensively fragile because we have just lost our way this season...For what ever reason. I don't think it's tactics. But you know, us fans can do this over and over. On the plus side...If you want goals, you watch everton! 24 in our league games so far...more than any other. Pure entertainment!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted September 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2014 We're defensively fragile because we have just lost our way this season...For what ever reason. I don't think it's tactics. But you know, us fans can do this over and over. On the plus side...If you want goals, you watch everton! 24 in our league games so far...more than any other. Pure entertainment!!! Think we've conceded the most too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted September 21, 2014 Report Share Posted September 21, 2014 Think we've conceded the most too! Yes...There is that small fact!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted September 21, 2014 Report Share Posted September 21, 2014 We're defensively fragile because we have just lost our way this season...For what ever reason. I don't think it's tactics. But you know, us fans can do this over and over. On the plus side...If you want goals, you watch everton! 24 in our league games so far...more than any other. Pure entertainment!!! Very entertaining if you're a Leicester, Arsenal, Chelsea or Crystal Palace fan not so much if you're a West Brom or Everton fan. MC11 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted September 21, 2014 Report Share Posted September 21, 2014 Very entertaining if you're a Leicester, Arsenal, Chelsea or Crystal Palace fan not so much if you're a West Brom or Everton fan. I always say 'Football fan 1st, Everton fan 2nd'. Although I'll contradict that and say I'd be more than happy to swap all those goals and frustrations for boring 1-0 Everton wins!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted September 22, 2014 Report Share Posted September 22, 2014 I don't thinking has much to do with tactics, but rather mistakes. Look at yesterday, they didn't beat us by attrition... They scored three goals from complete blunders. It's northern first match either that we seem to have beat ourselves rather than being beat. Bailey and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted September 22, 2014 Report Share Posted September 22, 2014 I always say 'Football fan 1st, Everton fan 2nd'. Although I'll contradict that and say I'd be more than happy to swap all those goals and frustrations for boring 1-0 Everton wins!!! Each to their own mate but I'm an out abd out Everton fan. I want to see us play good football but I want to see us win matches. It's destroying me watching our defence resemble something out of the keystone cops. I personally don't find any of the games we lost entertaining , if anything they were painful. Romey 1878 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted September 22, 2014 Report Share Posted September 22, 2014 Each to their own mate but I'm an out abd out Everton fan. I want to see us play good football but I want to see us win matches. It's destroying me watching our defence resemble something out of the keystone cops. I personally don't find any of the games we lost entertaining , if anything they were painful. Yeah, I know. I'm out an out toffee too. But since having my 3 (today!) Year old I've seen more important things in life. I have no time to get grumpy about everton losses (although I do still feel the niggle!) When I have an infant who constantly wants to play! Things can be approached in different ways...the fan who spends the weekend sulking is no bigger fan than the one who can bounce back quickly. However...no doubt it is much harder to swallow for a man like yourself who takes the time and money to go to GP and watch the games with his kids. Seeing it and feeling it at GP will be a lot harder than just hearing the score at full time! So yeah, for guys like you, I hope this defence malarkey gets sorted soon!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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