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Romey 1878

No More Money

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I find it quite depressing to be honest.

 

Not the sort of signals we want to be sending out while trying to convince our best players to sign new deals either imo.

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I find it quite depressing to be honest.

 

Not the sort of signals we want to be sending out while trying to convince our best players to sign new deals either imo.

maybe theres no more money for players because we are concentrating on giving our best players a new deal?

 

Why is there any surprise? We're always skint, big whoop. But if we keep the same team and form as last year (the one with the 3rd best record in 2010) whats the worry?

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To be honest, if we dont lose anybody this summer we really dont need to buy anyone, the squad is bigger and better than it has been for years.

Could possibly do with a cover at left back and i think Moyes knows that, in Oz against Melbourne he tried Hibbert at left back in the 1st half, and Neville in the 2nd half.

They might have to cover for left and right back this season because it looks as tho Coleman could be our surprise weapon, and might get in ahead of them both this season. ;)

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Why is there any surprise? We're always skint, big whoop.

 

 

So we should just accept that and go on our merry way as all of the sides around us spend to progress? This side finished 8th last season, injuries or no injuries that's a fact, so we should be looking to tweak the side at least. I don't class signing nobodies from the lower leagues of England, Portugal and France as improving a side that should be challenging for European places.

 

None of us should be happy to stand still, we are Everton Football Club, that should still mean something!

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To be honest, the only thing I feel we really need is cover for left back. A loan or bosman at left back for back up would be brilliant, not essential, but should anything happen to Baines like it did to Jags or arteta, I would dread palyign distin or coleman at left back for a full season.

 

Other than that, I think we should just aim to keep peanuts and tets and we should be fine, I don't see a problem in not having money to spend. Besides Moyes is shrewd, there probably is a few mil kicking around but he's probably told them what he needs not what he wants and he's got that, a decent shot stopper for back up and a few forwards to get some competition and more importantly goals. As well as we play when we play well, we're nowhere near clinical. How many 2-2 draws did we have towards the end of last season? Wolves, Brimingham, West Ham?

 

I'm sure if the perfect player at the perfect price came up Moyes would swoop, other than that, I don't think any current players or fans are really worried about the impression it gives off. We've always been skint and Moyes ahas always worked wonders. He always will too.

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So we should just accept that and go on our merry way as all of the sides around us spend to progress? This side finished 8th last season, injuries or no injuries that's a fact, so we should be looking to tweak the side at least. I don't class signing nobodies from the lower leagues of England, Portugal and France as improving a side that should be challenging for European places.

 

None of us should be happy to stand still, we are Everton Football Club, that should still mean something!

We finished 8th because of the shocking start to the season due to injuries and a squad morale screwed over by a greedy bastard, end of. This team finished 3rd in the 2010 rankings, without spending stupid money. City will fail to gel properly again next season, Villa had their peak and will implode like they usually do, Liverpool... hopefully Hodgson is a bad choice for them (though i fear not), Spurs will be tough again.

 

1 slip in the last how many seasons of other teams spending big money around us? Sunderland have a constant source of funds, what do they do? Money doesnt make you a better team, City have proved that. IF we keep our team together and carry on like we did last season, with no money, i will think we will be moving forward.

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I did say all along that I would be happy if we kept the current squad together so I should be quite content.

But to be honest I am a little dissapointed that we have not made at least one addition that could be comsidered

a first team player, if we had snapped up Donovan I would have been happy!

 

As has been said how are we meant to convince Arteta & Piennar that we are a progressive club and that there future

lies here if we cant even afford one single addition to the first XI?

 

To me thats like saying, look lads we know we have gone as far as we possibly can but will you sign anyway?

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Are we now counting the cost of not qualifying for Europe? Even in the Europa, I bet that extra TV revenue goes a long way in convincing the bank manager to loosen the ourse strings a little. Saying that, apart from Man City and Chelsea, I dunno where these clubs are getting their money from, banks won't lend to anyone. Maybe we're better off living within our means before more clubs go the way of pompey when their debts get called in.

 

Yeah it's disappointing we aren't splashing cash on big names, but it's hardly a surprise. I agree Romey, we are Everton FC and yeah that means something, but I don't think we're standing still at all. This is the best squad we've had in a quarter of a century, I have no doubts that this time next year we'll be getting ready for another tilt at Europe, and if we're lucky we'll have a trophy in our back pocket to boot. Just keeping my fingers crossed Pienaar or Arteta don't walk the second week of August :blink:

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I did say all along that I would be happy if we kept the current squad together so I should be quite content.

But to be honest I am a little dissapointed that we have not made at least one addition that could be comsidered

a first team player, if we had snapped up Donovan I would have been happy!

 

As has been said how are we meant to convince Arteta & Piennar that we are a progressive club and that there future

lies here if we cant even afford one single addition to the first XI?

 

To me thats like saying, look lads we know we have gone as far as we possibly can but will you sign anyway?

 

I don't agree to this, Coleman and Rodwell 2 young upcoming talents in british football, have pledged their futures to us. Why arteta, who has played for us for years and is happy here, and pienaar, someone who only this year had his best season with us after we helped him develop as a player, won't sign because we can't progress is rubbish. We need money for a bigger better squad, granted, but so does everyone. We have a starting 11 capable of beating anyone in the league, that's a fact. What we need are younger, enthusiastic players to give competition for places, if arteta gets complacemnt fine, stick rodwell in because he'll play his best every second. Pienaar acting up, that's fine, put magaye gueye on and let him run his arse off for us because he wants to play for us.

 

We have the tools to win the league if we really go for it, and lest we forget peinaar and arteta were worth a combined £4mil when we bought them, the same as a player who decided to move to greener pastures and is now with the barcodes who will finish what, 15th or 16th?

 

Cahill pledged his future immediately, that's a player with ambition. He wants to succeed with us, if peinaar and arteta don't fine, but us not having money does not mean we can't succeed. After all, if we loan Donovan in January again I don't think there's a team in the league on our day who wouldn't be afraid of us.

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To be honest, the only thing I feel we really need is cover for left back. A loan or bosman at left back for back up would be brilliant, not essential, but should anything happen to Baines like it did to Jags or arteta, I would dread palyign distin or coleman at left back for a full season.

 

 

To be honest, I can't complain with Hibbert's performance there on Wednesday!

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So we should just accept that and go on our merry way as all of the sides around us spend to progress?

 

I don't think anyone is saying that Mark, nor is everyone necessarily happy.

Whilst we all want the very best for the club it his to be looked at with realism too.

If Moyes says there is no money then we have to accept there is no money (it could just be a smokescreen) although he does say "There's no cash to sign any more players for the club for the time being" which to me says there may well be a sale or two (Pienaar and/or Arteta?) which would allow more transfers to take place.

To be honest I would rather be in the situation where (we are led to believe) the debt is managable than gamble the future of the club by borrowing too much and everything going tits up ala Pompey/Leeds.

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To be honest, I can't complain with Hibbert's performance there on Wednesday!

 

Fair enough, but would you be happy to play a player out of position for a full season if Baines gets a serious injury? I know we have players capable fo playing that position, and well, for a short time, but for a full season I can see plenty of problems arising from it, especially with playing teams with good wingers, like Lennon, Johnson, Nani, Milner, Walcott etc

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City will fail to gel properly again next season, Villa had their peak and will implode like they usually do, Liverpool... hopefully Hodgson is a bad choice for them (though i fear not), Spurs will be tough again.

 

 

This one bit is what really gets to me about the mentality of a lot of Everton fans, not just you Matt. Why do a lot of Everton fans concentrate on the negative aspects of other clubs for a way for Everton to achieve the grand position of 4th/5th/6th? Why can't we talk about Everton doing something special next season just because we're that fucking good? Lets believe we can sweep all before us not because City failed to gel, Villa got knackered, Spurs faded, or Hodgson buys a bunch of donkeys, but because we're a damn good team and on our day can beat any one. I want to shit on the rest of the league from a great height, not just on the shite like Wigan from a mid-table position.

 

 

Not having a go mate, I'm just a passionate fellow :P.

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I don't agree to this, Coleman and Rodwell 2 young upcoming talents in british football, have pledged their futures to us. Why arteta, who has played for us for years and is happy here, and pienaar, someone who only this year had his best season with us after we helped him develop as a player, won't sign because we can't progress is rubbish. We need money for a bigger better squad, granted, but so does everyone. We have a starting 11 capable of beating anyone in the league, that's a fact. What we need are younger, enthusiastic players to give competition for places, if arteta gets complacemnt fine, stick rodwell in because he'll play his best every second. Pienaar acting up, that's fine, put magaye gueye on and let him run his arse off for us because he wants to play for us.

We have the tools to win the league if we really go for it, and lest we forget peinaar and arteta were worth a combined £4mil when we bought them, the same as a player who decided to move to greener pastures and is now with the barcodes who will finish what, 15th or 16th?

 

Cahill pledged his future immediately, that's a player with ambition. He wants to succeed with us, if peinaar and arteta don't fine, but us not having money does not mean we can't succeed. After all, if we loan Donovan in January again I don't think there's a team in the league on our day who wouldn't be afraid of us.

 

 

Fair enough but then watch us struggle to finish mid table

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Fair enough, but would you be happy to play a player out of position for a full season if Baines gets a serious injury? I know we have players capable fo playing that position, and well, for a short time, but for a full season I can see plenty of problems arising from it, especially with playing teams with good wingers, like Lennon, Johnson, Nani, Milner, Walcott etc

 

No doubt, just look at last season where we had a handful of players, playing out of position. I don't think Hibbert will ever be able to 'replace' Leighton Baines but, with little funds I doubt we'd be able to find a defender who is as good as Hibbert, even if that's not his natural position. But let's bare in mind Toby Hibbert started out with us as a Striker, so maybe RB isn't his natural position either.

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This one bit is what really gets to me about the mentality of a lot of Everton fans, not just you Matt. Why do a lot of Everton fans concentrate on the negative aspects of other clubs for a way for Everton to achieve the grand position of 4th/5th/6th? Why can't we talk about Everton doing something special next season just because we're that fucking good? Lets believe we can sweep all before us not because City failed to gel, Villa got knackered, Spurs faded, or Hodgson buys a bunch of donkeys, but because we're a damn good team and on our day can beat any one. I want to shit on the rest of the league from a great height, not just on the shite like Wigan from a mid-table position.

 

 

Not having a go mate, I'm just a passionate fellow :P.

No worries mate, i know :) I agree with you too, i want to see us crapping on all the opposition like we did against Utd Chelsea etc, and from what we saw last season we did that quite well. My point is, we dont need money to do this. If the season had started from Jan, we wouldve finished 3rd! I point out these other teams as they are the big spending teams with money to attract players and show ambition, and i point out that despite all the money they spend, theyre not light years ahead, in fact based on the 2010 ratings, we were better without spending mega money! i know i keep coming back to this, the reason is that the 1st half of the season we were ripped apart by so many injuries. if we keep the same team and form, get a good start... we are pushing arsenal for 3rd.

 

got to go the airport now, im playing taxi! Will be back in a few hours!

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I don't want or even think we need to spend buckets of money, I just feel that spending less than £2million in a transfer window and then saying we've got nothing more to spend is a bit pathetic. Moyes can't work miracles forever, what do we do when our best players (like Cahill, Arteta etc) who have carried us to where we are now need to be replaced? The times when you could pick up bargains from the Championship are long gone. And our lack of money makes our best players easy pickings for other clubs.

 

It's just so frustrating that we're so close to being able to achieve anything we want (IMO), it relly wouldn't take that much to make it happen because we have one hell of a nucleus of a team, but we're incapable of that little extra push and to me that's holding us back.

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I don't want or even think we need to spend buckets of money, I just feel that spending less than £2million in a transfer window and then saying we've got nothing more to spend is a bit pathetic. Moyes can't work miracles forever, what do we do when our best players (like Cahill, Arteta etc) who have carried us to where we are now need to be replaced? The times when you could pick up bargains from the Championship are long gone. And our lack of money makes our best players easy pickings for other clubs.

 

It's just so frustrating that we're so close to being able to achieve anything we want (IMO), it relly wouldn't take that much to make it happen because we have one hell of a nucleus of a team, but we're incapable of that little extra push and to me that's holding us back.

 

 

 

This!

 

If we could just add one quality player to the squad each year I would be happy

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I agree we could do with one "Big Signing" but sometimes you need to look at the bigger picture.

 

We have recently signed Jan Mucha, Magaye Gueye, Jermaine Beckford, and Joao Silva, Didnt cost a lot i hear you say, but if these lads are on 25 grand a week each, its £1.2 million a year, multiplied by four is close to 5 million.

Plus you have the likes of Duffy and Baxter along with the 1st team 11 being offered improved contracts.

This is why we have to be careful with the money, so i'm quite happy with the squad we have now.

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Perhaps we are "only treading water"....making do with what we've got.

 

What have we got? IF we can keep Arteta and Pienaar that will be a good start, right!

(if we lose them, well we will probably will have a decent bit to spend)

We've got Fellaini coming back, Anichebes looking pretty good and Jagielka will even be starting this season.Bily can't play worse than last season, so that's a plus.Rodwell is a year older and we all know what he could be capable of.

Coleman may well make an impact and Hibbert is fit again(I threw that in becaus I like a fight)

 

So "treading water".......yeh well treading water might look nice when a couple of the rich boys who've bought wrong, and haven't got team spirit slip below the water.

 

Lets see the likes of Spurs and Villa, and possibly add City and liverpool tread water when it gets a bit rough.

 

Remember no one treads water like Everton.........hell Bob Latchford could even friggin walk on the stuff.

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I'm pretty happy with our squad to be honest if Pienaar and Arteta stay.

 

If they don't then we'll have the money to spend to replace them.

 

As has been said, apart from Left back we have good cover in every position, lots of good up and coming players that fill the squad out well and while a "quality signing" might be very pleasing to us all I don't think any of our first choice 11 need changing and we have decent players that can play different positions, offer different options etc.

 

I'd say our strikers can be a bit hit and miss but we have plenty of competition there now and potential journey men like Saha and Yak know that the likes of Beckford, Vaughan and Anichebe as well as plenty of other potential in attacking mid that can steal their places.

 

I'm happy for us not to spend money we don't have rather than buy more players to keep fans happy.

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Everybody keeps pointing out that its the best squad that we have had for years and they are correct but are we really moving forward?

 

We have added Mucha who hopefully wont get near the first team, Beckford who has done well in the lower leagues and is a bit of a gamble, Silva who I think is more one for the future and Gueye who again is more about potential.

 

Lets say Bill has got his calculations right thats an outlay of a pathetic £5M

 

Now I understand that most if not all of the money has gone on securing most of our current squad on long term contracts and Im all for that.

At the end of the day if there is no dosh left then we just gave to get on with what weve got, which is a pretty good side

 

But my worry is can we honestly say to Piennar and Arteta that the club is moving forward.

 

Its clutching at straws to say Coleman is more experienced now and that Rodders is a year older. is that really going to be enough?

 

As much as Im looking forward to the new season I really dont think we will challenge the top 4 with the current squad. IMO we need cover at LB, a decent RW and a class CF and then we could be in business.

 

 

Its not all doom and gloom because the bottomline is that Moyse has assembled a very good squad of players but its imperative that we keep hold of Piennar & Arteta.

I know people will say if they do go we will get decent money for them but those are the same people who are writting off the likes of Man City because they wont gel in time, surely if we lose our only 2 creative players then there replacements will also need time to gel

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Everybody keeps pointing out that its the best squad that we have had for years and they are correct but are we really moving forward?

 

We have added Mucha who hopefully wont get near the first team, Beckford who has done well in the lower leagues and is a bit of a gamble, Silva who I think is more one for the future and Gueye who again is more about potential.

 

Lets say Bill has got his calculations right thats an outlay of a pathetic £5M

 

Now I understand that most if not all of the money has gone on securing most of our current squad on long term contracts and Im all for that.

At the end of the day if there is no dosh left then we just gave to get on with what weve got, which is a pretty good side

 

But my worry is can we honestly say to Piennar and Arteta that the club is moving forward.

 

Its clutching at straws to say Coleman is more experienced now and that Rodders is a year older. is that really going to be enough?

 

As much as Im looking forward to the new season I really dont think we will challenge the top 4 with the current squad. IMO we need cover at LB, a decent RW and a class CF and then we could be in business.

 

 

Its not all doom and gloom because the bottomline is that Moyse has assembled a very good squad of players but its imperative that we keep hold of Piennar & Arteta.

I know people will say if they do go we will get decent money for them but those are the same people who are writting off the likes of Man City because they wont gel in time, surely if we lose our only 2 creative players then there replacements will also need time to gel

im sorry, this is going to sound rude, and after drinking through my flight delay misery probably regrettable tomorrow, but that is the most stupid thing ive read since i left the office emails! are we going backwards, are we getting worse? Are we in exactly the same position we were 5 years ago? NO! So were not standing still. we continue to improve and add to the squad, which im pretty sure, even in this state, that that should be considered as moving forward! ok, not fantastic mega money signings, but more competition for striker spaces (dont care what y'all think of Beckford, goalscorers like him... doesnt matter what league youre in - the goal is the same size and he can hit the back of it quite well, he's got that lucky touch and knack). Weve also got someone pushing Howard to up his game. Errr sounds like improvement to me!

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Where we were six years ago....

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/kenwright-on-the-brink-as-rival-turns-up-heat-554387.html

 

"Everton could be relegated because of boardroom upheaval, part-time ownership and full-time shambles," says Ian MacDonald, the vice-president of the Everton Independent Supporters' Club.

 

"Moyes has just £1.5m, including wages, in his transfer kitty. It's one out and one in - which is almost impossible with just 22 professionals on Everton's books."

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Moyes says this every season - note he says no signings before the start of the season - it's almost a certainty that he will sign someone at least (for cash) before the end of the transfer window. We must get our finances sorted between the start of the season and 31st aug as he always seems to get at least 1 'expensive' 1st team signing.

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im sorry, this is going to sound rude, and after drinking through my flight delay misery probably regrettable tomorrow, but that is the most stupid thing ive read since i left the office emails! are we going backwards, are we getting worse? Are we in exactly the same position we were 5 years ago? NO! So were not standing still. we continue to improve and add to the squad, which im pretty sure, even in this state, that that should be considered as moving forward! ok, not fantastic mega money signings, but more competition for striker spaces (dont care what y'all think of Beckford, goalscorers like him... doesnt matter what league youre in - the goal is the same size and he can hit the back of it quite well, he's got that lucky touch and knack). Weve also got someone pushing Howard to up his game. Errr sounds like improvement to me!

 

 

Perhaps I should have made my self clearer. Obviously we have moved forward from 5 years ago any retard can see that

 

My point was have we moved forward from last season?

 

If you read it again you will see that I said I agreed that it was our best squad in years( hence I agree that the club has made great strides in the Kenwright/Moyes era) but IMO the squad hasnt really improved from last season. The point I was trying to make is that if the club wants to secure the futures of the likes of Arteta & Piennar then they have to show that the club is still moving forward and spending a grand total of £2M for me is not showing them that we can match thier ambitions.

 

If your happy with the new additions( a reserve keeper, a league 1 forward and 2 young lads from the lower leagues in France & Portugal) then thats up to you but do the words nil satis nisi optimum mean anything to you?

 

I realise the club is skint and as I stated before I accept that what little dosh we had has gone on securing players on long term contracts but is it really too much to ask that we bring in one decent signing a year?

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...is it really too much to ask that we bring in one decent signing a year?

Do we not?

 

Eg

 

2009 Heitinga Bily

2008 Felli Saha

2007 Yakubu Baines Jags Pienaar

2006 Johnson Lescott

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Where we were six years ago....

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/kenwright-on-the-brink-as-rival-turns-up-heat-554387.html

 

"Everton could be relegated because of boardroom upheaval, part-time ownership and full-time shambles," says Ian MacDonald, the vice-president of the Everton Independent Supporters' Club.

 

"Moyes has just £1.5m, including wages, in his transfer kitty. It's one out and one in - which is almost impossible with just 22 professionals on Everton's books."

 

 

As I have already stated I wasnt trying to say we hadnt moved forward in the past 5 or 6 years because clearly we have. However if I wanted to be pedantic take out the £1.5M and insert a generous £5M and then no not much has changed from that perspective

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Time will tell.

 

If Guaye or Silva turn out to be the next Pienaar or Arteta (not out of the question given Davey's record) then they'll certainly be looked at as "decent" in the future.

 

And I wouldn't yet rule out someone else coming in, no matter what he's saying on the record.

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Time will tell.

 

If Guaye or Silva turn out to be the next Pienaar or Arteta (not out of the question given Davey's record) then they'll certainly be looked at as "decent" in the future.

 

And I wouldn't yet rule out someone else coming in, no matter what he's saying on the record.

 

 

thats all Im asking for, one signing that can add something to the starting XI straight away

 

I dont think you are getting the point that I am trying to make though.

 

Of course I think Moyes has done a tremendous job and of course I think year on year we have improved ( except maybe this year).

 

All I am trying to say is put yourself in Piennar or Artetas shoes, your at the pinacle of your career, your ambitious and want to win things, your coming to the end of your contract and you are wondering if Everton can go any further, then the manager says well of cause we can look at the calibre of player weve just signed this summer, oh and thats the lot we wont be bringing anybody else in.

 

Would you sign a new contract?

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Would you sign a new contract?

Yes.

 

There's unparalleled optimism among the fans this summer. We know how well the club played at the end of last season.....this is the first summer in years (ever?) when a lot of people are saying we don't need to sign anyone. We know we can beat anyone in the premier league with the squad we have because we've done it this year.

 

The players know that too I'm sure.

 

(I do get the point you're trying to make....I just don't agree with it :D ).

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Do we not?

 

Eg

 

2009 Heitinga Bily

2008 Felli Saha

2007 Yakubu Baines Jags Pienaar

2006 Johnson Lescott

 

The Johnson and Yak buys were from bank loans as Moyes pushed Kenwright to find him so more cash. Then when the banks went t*ts up they wouldn't offer any more money so Moyes has had to sell to buy the past two seasons (Johnson and Lescott) Both those players were fairly replaceable but the likes of Arteta and Pienaar are irreplaceable at the minute so Moyes would rather (to use his well worn phrase) "go with what he has got"

 

It is frustrating though because I don't believe it wold take a lot of money to turn us into a great side, the way Moyes gets the best out of his players just give him say £20million a summer (which in football terms isn't a great amount) and he would get us into the Champions League no problem

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We must get our finances sorted between the start of the season and 31st aug as he always seems to get at least 1 'expensive' 1st team signing.

 

 

The Sky money makes it's way into our accounts towards the end of August... ;).

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It is frustrating though because I don't believe it wold take a lot of money to turn us into a great side, the way Moyes gets the best out of his players just give him say £20million a summer (which in football terms isn't a great amount) and he would get us into the Champions League no problem

 

Personally, I think that's a bit naive, and it's the kind of attitude that gets teams like Leeds and Portsmouth where they are today. I'd much prefer us to do it (let me say) 'the honest way', and build gradually year on year, as we have been doing. I agree with Mike's earlier post. The boys played really well from January on till the end of the season, and having seen the couple of pre season games we've played already, I think we've reason to be optimistic with what we've got. I don't want to tempt fate, and comparing us to previous pre-seasons, we don't look in too bad a shape at all, and that's without Peinaar, Johnny H, Fellaini, Jakubu, and for the most part Arteta and Cahill. Granted I'd like to see one or two come in, but I wouldn't be afraid to start the season with what we've got. Cheebs looks to be coming on nicely now, and Beckford and Magaye look like they could be good signings from the little I've seen of them so far. And there's always the chance Landycakes could come back on another loan spell.

 

For me the future's bright, the future's a bright fluorescent pink!

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Personally, I think that's a bit naive, and it's the kind of attitude that gets teams like Leeds and Portsmouth where they are today. I'd much prefer us to do it (let me say) 'the honest way', and build gradually year on year, as we have been doing. I agree with Mike's earlier post. The boys played really well from January on till the end of the season, and having seen the couple of pre season games we've played already, I think we've reason to be optimistic with what we've got. I don't want to tempt fate, and comparing us to previous pre-seasons, we don't look in too bad a shape at all, and that's without Peinaar, Johnny H, Fellaini, Jakubu, and for the most part Arteta and Cahill. Granted I'd like to see one or two come in, but I wouldn't be afraid to start the season with what we've got. Cheebs looks to be coming on nicely now, and Beckford and Magaye look like they could be good signings from the little I've seen of them so far. And there's always the chance Landycakes could come back on another loan spell.

 

For me the future's bright, the future's a bright fluorescent pink!

 

 

Thats all I want but to me that has happened this year and I understand the reasons why it hasnt happened but that doesnt make it any less frustrating. Last season it was clear that we needed a backup LB, a RW and a top clas CF and none of those areas have been adressed.

 

Surely one signing a year isnt too much to ask for. If we had say brought in Landon Donovan this year I would be perfectly happy. Is he really out of our reach financially? The impact he made last season was there for all to see but it seems that Nothing But The Best Is Good Enough is being replaced with Nothing But The Cheapest Is Good Enough

 

Its clear that we have to sell to buy, what happens next year when the likes of Neville, Saha, Cahill, Distin and Piennar and Arteta if they stay, need replacing?

 

As I said earlier its far from all gloom and doom, if Arteta & Piennar stay, we have got our strongest squad in years and I am confident it will be a good season for us, although I dont think we will be strong enogh to take 4th place.

 

I honestly believe that we are only a couple of signings away from being an exceptional side that could challenge the established order but at the moment Im just a bit concerned that all the good work is going to come undone because we dont have the finances to keep the current team intact let alone improve it

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All I am trying to say is put yourself in Piennar or Artetas shoes, your at the pinacle of your career, your ambitious and want to win things, your coming to the end of your contract and you are wondering if Everton can go any further, then the manager says well of cause we can look at the calibre of player weve just signed this summer, oh and thats the lot we wont be bringing anybody else in.

 

Would you sign a new contract?

 

 

Thats exactly the point I was trying to make at the beggining of this thread & fuck me did we open a can of worms!

 

I remember reading years ago that the Kenright/Moyes dynamic was based on an agreement that Bill would find the money for Davey to make one 'big' signing per summer (Beattie/AJ etc) to improve the squad. The rest of the business would be done in the free agent/loan markets & Moyes was happy with that.

 

Maybe he has turned around & said to Bill that he doesn't need that signing this year as long as he gets long term deals in place for all his best players?

 

Maybe as said earlier its a smokescreen & he will get that signing?

 

I stand by my point though that if we want our best players to commit their futures to us then we have to show them that the clubs ambition matches their own.

Imo spending about £2m on 3-4 players they have probably never heard of is unlikely to do that.

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No doubt, just look at last season where we had a handful of players, playing out of position. I don't think Hibbert will ever be able to 'replace' Leighton Baines but, with little funds I doubt we'd be able to find a defender who is as good as Hibbert, even if that's not his natural position. But let's bare in mind Toby Hibbert started out with us as a Striker, so maybe RB isn't his natural position either.

Sometimes, i don't think hibbert is good enough to replace hibbert... :D

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Everybody keeps pointing out that its the best squad that we have had for years and they are correct but are we really moving forward?

Think you answered your own question there!

 

Put it this way - do we have a better squad than we had 12 months ago? I reckon yes, definitely, as we have done every season consistently under Moyes.

 

Anyway, this argument goes on on this forum every summer, some of us worry the wheels are about to come off, some of us predict we're gonna win the league. Inevitably it will be somewhere between the two, maybe slightly exceed expectations, maybe slightly underachieve, but what we can guarantee is we'll get plenty of entertainment watching what is now undoubtedly one of the best teams in the country

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I would rather we spend the money we do have on tieing down Arteta and Peanuts then bring in new midfielders or strikers. We could sell yobo to raise the cash for a left back to cover Baines but maybe we should finally be bringing some of the young guns through i.e. mustafi, jutkewitz, coleman, duffy, agard, baxter etc so they are ready to fill boots that will soon get hung (Cahill, Neville, Distin, Saha). Think of the young players like peterlin, arnoux, ruddy that come in and never get near the 1st team before we 'release' them - they need contracts as well. Maybe this year Moyes feels ready to actually use the likes of coleman, jutkewitz, duffy, rodwell, etc this year i.e carling cup....

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Everybody keeps pointing out that its the best squad that we have had for years and they are correct but are we really moving forward?

 

 

Perhaps I should have made my self clearer. Obviously we have moved forward from 5 years ago any retard can see that

 

My point was have we moved forward from last season?

 

If you read it again you will see that I said I agreed that it was our best squad in years( hence I agree that the club has made great strides in the Kenwright/Moyes era) but IMO the squad hasnt really improved from last season. The point I was trying to make is that if the club wants to secure the futures of the likes of Arteta & Piennar then they have to show that the club is still moving forward and spending a grand total of £2M for me is not showing them that we can match thier ambitions.

 

If your happy with the new additions( a reserve keeper, a league 1 forward and 2 young lads from the lower leagues in France & Portugal) then thats up to you but do the words nil satis nisi optimum mean anything to you?

 

I realise the club is skint and as I stated before I accept that what little dosh we had has gone on securing players on long term contracts but is it really too much to ask that we bring in one decent signing a year?

Sorry, i got confused with you asking if we were moving forward and then stating that of course were moving forward.

 

As for the 1 marquee signing, if we get Arteta and Pienaar on contracts that is better than any other sigining.

 

Oh, and apparently Moyes thinks he has the best team hes ever had. He added competition for places to push our 1st teamers to improve, so compared to last season where we only really had Yak and Saha fighting for a place up front, we now have an enthusiastic (albeit unproven in this league - though he has scored before against EPL competition) new striker and a few new youngsters. Oh, and a better competition for Howard. Point is that now the 1st team players have to raise their game, so they have to improve. Which is an improvement, no?

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How much will that be roughly?

 

I'm not sure but I do know that it's gone up this season.

 

To all those saying that they'd rather we bought no one and used the money we do have to get Pienaar and Arteta tied down to new deals; the point that others are trying to make is that if we don't spend money on bringing quality in then the pair of them may not sign new deals because we're not showing ambition or progress.

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I'm not sure but I do know that it's gone up this season.

 

To all those saying that they'd rather we bought no one and used the money we do have to get Pienaar and Arteta tied down to new deals; the point that others are trying to make is that if we don't spend money on bringing quality in then the pair of them may not sign new deals because we're not showing ambition or progress.

 

 

Hallelujah!!!

 

That is exactly what I have been trying to say

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Think you answered your own question there!

 

Put it this way - do we have a better squad than we had 12 months ago? I reckon yes, definitely, as we have done every season consistently under Moyes.

 

Anyway, this argument goes on on this forum every summer, some of us worry the wheels are about to come off, some of us predict we're gonna win the league. Inevitably it will be somewhere between the two, maybe slightly exceed expectations, maybe slightly underachieve, but what we can guarantee is we'll get plenty of entertainment watching what is now undoubtedly one of the best teams in the country

 

 

In the last 12 months we have lost Ruddy, Gosling and Niel and brought in Mucha, Beckford, Gueye & Silva

 

Is that really enough of an improvement to convince Arteta & Piennar that the club is moving forward ?

 

I bet Chelsea and City are quaking in thier boots

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Arteta and Pienaar are on the inside....senior players dealing with the management team on a daily basis, no doubt the chairman talks to them on occasion as well. They know the situation the club's in far better than any of us so I'm sure they're able to form their own opinions on whether we have ambition and are progressing.

 

Surely Rodwell was the litmus test. He believes Goodison is the best place for him when he had all sorts of options. Yes he's younger but I think the point is still valid.

 

I'm certain Arteta will stay....I'm hopeful Pienaar will but if he goes I think he'll (like others before him) live to regret it.

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To all those saying that they'd rather we bought no one and used the money we do have to get Pienaar and Arteta tied down to new deals; the point that others are trying to make is that if we don't spend money on bringing quality in then the pair of them may not sign new deals because we're not showing ambition or progress.

 

 

But if we do buy a "BIG PLAYER" we wont have the money left to offer Arteta and Pienaar the improved contracts of £55 grand, and they will be off anyway.

 

6 of one and half a dozen of the other, fooked if you do and fooked if you dont.

Its great being an Evertonian isn't it. :D

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I believe that you should always be looking to strenghthen what you have, in terms of quality, and improve on what you did. It is fine saying that this squad, with a few added numbers who are hardly jawdropping signings, had a great second half of the season and had the third best record since Christmas, but that is not to say that other teams will not be improving themselves this season. For example who knows what Birmingham, Fulham, Sunderland, Blackburn and even West Ham can achieve, extremes I know but not out of the realms of impossibilty, now that they have had a season blending in and gelling. That is why you should always be looking for improvement. The top teams do it BUT that is because they have the means to do it and don't sit on their laurels. We have broken our spending record a couple of times in the past couple of seasons and I don't see why that cannot be realised again. I am sure that Moyes will have some money stashed away as he bides his team to capture the big signing that will really excite us all.

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I believe that you should always be looking to strenghthen what you have, in terms of quality, and improve on what you did. It is fine saying that this squad, with a few added numbers who are hardly jawdropping signings, had a great second half of the season and had the third best record since Christmas, but that is not to say that other teams will not be improving themselves this season. For example who knows what Birmingham, Fulham, Sunderland, Blackburn and even West Ham can achieve, extremes I know but not out of the realms of impossibilty, now that they have had a season blending in and gelling. That is why you should always be looking for improvement. The top teams do it BUT that is because they have the means to do it and don't sit on their laurels. We have broken our spending record a couple of times in the past couple of seasons and I don't see why that cannot be realised again. I am sure that Moyes will have some money stashed away as he bides his team to capture the big signing that will really excite us all.

 

 

Amen!!

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This has turned out to be a cracking little thread! I can see both sides point of view on this, and strangely agree with both in a way.

 

Experienced players like Arteta and Pienaar will want to win something in their careers and watching teams like Spurs, City, Villa etc who finished above us sign already world class players and then see Moyes scrambling for free transfers, lower league raids and inexperienced youngsters when we finished 8th, isnt what I imagine they really want to see. Although I believe if they had a choice, they would much rather stay at Everton and win a trophy, they have to look at things realistically in terms of their career, and when City sign a world cup winning winger, a young international defender and experienced Champions League winning midfielder it raises question over how our League One golden boot winner, Portuguese league 2 striker and french league (2?) winger will compare.

 

I 100% believe Everton can beat any team this season, and I believe the players do too, especially listening to players like Rodwell who seems very determined and focussed on winning trophies with us. The difference between him and the other two IMO is that he believes we WILL win something, yet the others THINK we are good enough to win something. If the two players in question really do need a bit of convincing then I dont think the players we have brought in will do that, yet the likes of Citys & Spurs(?) already done deals might. We might have progressed as a squad this year compared to last but will we improved as a squad compared to the other teams in the league come deadline day?

 

As Everton football club we know we wont have that much money to spend on flashy players with exotic sounding names and tbh I wouldnt want that. If we could only raise enough funds to spend around 10mil without selling anyone I would be very content.

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I believe that you should always be looking to strenghthen what you have, in terms of quality, and improve on what you did. It is fine saying that this squad, with a few added numbers who are hardly jawdropping signings, had a great second half of the season and had the third best record since Christmas, but that is not to say that other teams will not be improving themselves this season. For example who knows what Birmingham, Fulham, Sunderland, Blackburn and even West Ham can achieve, extremes I know but not out of the realms of impossibilty, now that they have had a season blending in and gelling. That is why you should always be looking for improvement. The top teams do it BUT that is because they have the means to do it and don't sit on their laurels. We have broken our spending record a couple of times in the past couple of seasons and I don't see why that cannot be realised again. I am sure that Moyes will have some money stashed away as he bides his team to capture the big signing that will really excite us all.

Im pretty sure all these teams have spent as much, if not more, in the last few seasons than us and its gotten them nowhere. Im completely agree with improving year after year, but maybe we should start quantifying improvement here. Have we added more depth to the squad? Yes. Are they world class world beaters? Not a chance. Im pretty sure all these teams have spent as much, if not more, in the last few seasons than us and its gotten them nowhere.

 

This has turned out to be a cracking little thread! I can see both sides point of view on this, and strangely agree with both in a way.

 

Experienced players like Arteta and Pienaar will want to win something in their careers and watching teams like Spurs, City, Villa etc who finished above us sign already world class players and then see Moyes scrambling for free transfers, lower league raids and inexperienced youngsters when we finished 8th, isnt what I imagine they really want to see. Although I believe if they had a choice, they would much rather stay at Everton and win a trophy, they have to look at things realistically in terms of their career, and when City sign a world cup winning winger, a young international defender and experienced Champions League winning midfielder it raises question over how our League One golden boot winner, Portuguese league 2 striker and french league (2?) winger will compare.

 

I 100% believe Everton can beat any team this season, and I believe the players do too, especially listening to players like Rodwell who seems very determined and focussed on winning trophies with us. The difference between him and the other two IMO is that he believes we WILL win something, yet the others THINK we are good enough to win something. If the two players in question really do need a bit of convincing then I dont think the players we have brought in will do that, yet the likes of Citys & Spurs(?) already done deals might. We might have progressed as a squad this year compared to last but will we improved as a squad compared to the other teams in the league come deadline day?

 

As Everton football club we know we wont have that much money to spend on flashy players with exotic sounding names and tbh I wouldnt want that. If we could only raise enough funds to spend around 10mil without selling anyone I would be very content.

Now, lookin at what Bailey said here about City signing "class". They signed this kind of overpaid class the year before too, got them nowhere. Liverpool have continually spent millions and underacheived. Only Spurs have actually improved their squad with all their money and i still think our current squad on its day is better. The arguement of winning things.... who has won anything except Utd / Chelsea in the last, lets say 5 years:

FA Cup - Portsmouth (spent buckets of cash - bankrupt and relegated). West Ham (on pens against Liverpool), spent buckets on wages if not transfer fees and nearly relegated last year. Other than that, Chelsea or Utd.

EPL : noone except Utd/Chelsea

League Cup : Spurs once, otherwise Utd/Chelsea

UEFA : Onlu fulham are close, spent as much as us if not less over the last few years, no big name signings.

CL : Chelsea.

 

So, all these other teams above us who are doling out the cash on world class talent, superstars with big wages to go with their big egos.... Only spurs won something. So why would Pienaar/Arteta want to leave for anyone but Utd or Chelski? Because other teams are spending wads of cash? Oooooh! How ambitious, City spent 30m on a world cup winning Brazilian, just as an example. Did they get anything from it? nothing, nada, nichts, rien.

 

Would it be nice to be able to splash the cash and not worry. Of course. Do we need it? No. Have we improved the squad? Certainly. Is it the same kind of improvement in terms of finance? Nowhere near. Will we be the better team next year? Im damn sure we will.

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The arguement of winning things.... who has won anything except Utd / Chelsea in the last, lets say 5 years:

FA Cup - Portsmouth (spent buckets of cash - bankrupt and relegated). West Ham (on pens against Liverpool), spent buckets on wages if not transfer fees and nearly relegated last year. Other than that, Chelsea or Utd.

EPL : noone except Utd/Chelsea

League Cup : Spurs once, otherwise Utd/Chelsea

UEFA : Onlu fulham are close, spent as much as us if not less over the last few years, no big name signings.

CL : Chelsea.

 

West Ham lost that F.A Cup Final - Liverpool won it on pens.

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Im pretty sure all these teams have spent as much, if not more, in the last few seasons than us and its gotten them nowhere. Im completely agree with improving year after year, but maybe we should start quantifying improvement here. Have we added more depth to the squad? Yes. Are they world class world beaters? Not a chance. Im pretty sure all these teams have spent as much, if not more, in the last few seasons than us and its gotten them nowhere.

 

 

Now, lookin at what Bailey said here about City signing "class". They signed this kind of overpaid class the year before too, got them nowhere. Liverpool have continually spent millions and underacheived. Only Spurs have actually improved their squad with all their money and i still think our current squad on its day is better. The arguement of winning things.... who has won anything except Utd / Chelsea in the last, lets say 5 years:

FA Cup - Portsmouth (spent buckets of cash - bankrupt and relegated). West Ham (on pens against Liverpool), spent buckets on wages if not transfer fees and nearly relegated last year. Other than that, Chelsea or Utd.

EPL : noone except Utd/Chelsea

League Cup : Spurs once, otherwise Utd/Chelsea

UEFA : Onlu fulham are close, spent as much as us if not less over the last few years, no big name signings.

CL : Chelsea.

 

So, all these other teams above us who are doling out the cash on world class talent, superstars with big wages to go with their big egos.... Only spurs won something. So why would Pienaar/Arteta want to leave for anyone but Utd or Chelski? Because other teams are spending wads of cash? Oooooh! How ambitious, City spent 30m on a world cup winning Brazilian, just as an example. Did they get anything from it? nothing, nada, nichts, rien.

 

Would it be nice to be able to splash the cash and not worry. Of course. Do we need it? No. Have we improved the squad? Certainly. Is it the same kind of improvement in terms of finance? Nowhere near. Will we be the better team next year? Im damn sure we will.

 

 

Since last season Gosling, Niel, Joe and Ruddy have gone. Mucha, Silva, Gueye and Beckford have come in so I cant really see that we have added more depth to the squad.

Last year it was evident that we needed a LB a RW and a quality CF and none of those areas have been adressed. The only thing that has changed from last season is that the injuries have cleared up

 

If you look at City the signings they have made this summer are in a completely different class to the ones they made last year and IMO they will be challenging for the title this year.

 

Moyes/Kenwright have made great stirdes and worked wonders with the club but I really dont think there is any meaningful improvement, if any at all from last season.

 

We have got a fantastic squad that isnt far away from being the real deal but that is why it is is so frustrating to have to watch us treading water this summer. IMO if we can keep Arteta & Piennar we will be challenging for 6th place and if we have a really good year maybe even 4th. People who think we will finish above that IMO are delusional enough speak with a Geordie accent

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Now, lookin at what Bailey said here about City signing "class". They signed this kind of overpaid class the year before too, got them nowhere.

 

It sure got them a head of us last year. And with us signing Jermaine Beckford, Magaye Gueye and Joao Silva and with them signing Touré, Silva, Boateng, Kolarov (?) and who knows who's to follow, I can't see how that's gonna change.

 

I think we at least need left back cover and a top class player that can play out on the right because I don't see who is gonna be playing there this season: Osman? Bily? Anichebe?

 

Now I understand that maybe it's not gonna be possible to splash let's say £10 million on a right winger if we want to sign our best players on long-term contracts too. I think the most important question here is, how come the club is in this financial situation? Is it because of lacking turnover from gate receipts (which would have course improve drastically if we would move to another stadium), is it because of to small revenues from merchandising or bad public relations towards possible sponsors?

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It sure got them a head of us last year. And with us signing Jermaine Beckford, Magaye Gueye and Joao Silva and with them signing Touré, Silva, Boateng, Kolarov (?) and who knows who's to follow, I can't see how that's gonna change.

 

I think we at least need left back cover and a top class player that can play out on the right because I don't see who is gonna be playing there this season: Osman? Bily? Anichebe?

 

Now I understand that maybe it's not gonna be possible to splash let's say £10 million on a right winger if we want to sign our best players on long-term contracts too. I think the most important question here is, how come the club is in this financial situation? Is it because of lacking turnover from gate receipts (which would have course improve drastically if we would move to another stadium), is it because of to small revenues from merchandising or bad public relations towards possible sponsors?

ok ok, they managed to finish 5th, something we have acheived several times a the last few years without spending 100m pound and by only 6 points. And we completely played them off the park both times we played them.

 

As you point out, the more important question is why are we in this state. We should be a club that investors are fighting over. Whatever the reason for it not happening i dont know, but i for one am glad we dont have a billionaire sugardaddy, who can drop us when hes bored. Dont get me wrong, i would love investment but i want someone who is basically BK with more cash. There are very few billionaires with that kind of love for Everton and cash to spare. If the choice is to sell your soul for quick cash or building for success, im going with the latter.

 

My point is that it doesnt matter how rich or poor you are. You cant buy results and big expensive signings are a kind of way to do just that, though it doesnt work that often. What wins games is a strong team and club mentality with a good manager and versatile players who give their all, even if theyre playing out of position.

 

Saying that, and this may sound silly, but why not push Coleman up on the right? Hes got the pace to go past players, stamina to last 90mins easily, can put in a good ball and would be useful tracking back. just a little offtopic thought...

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