Kant

spot on. i thought he played that very well and made it impossible for costa to make the shot. also when he went into a slide on the other close run by a chelsea player and pulled out at the last second it was another well timed play. didn't give a pen and it was a goal kick and prevented a shot.

If we played like that 80% of the time we would be in the top four easy this season. We play high tempo football with the right decision making at the back we are amongst the best teams in the prem. players need to be bollocked now and then and know they've had a bollocking. I just don't see that from Martinez. Do players go into a war for him? That's what I want. Bilic in hindsight would have been ideal for me. Right now if he wins the cup I'd still be 50/50. I'd be looking forward to next season knowing our management team was de boer, bergkamp and stam. Can u imagine that? How could any player not improve under them?

No.

Not fit, no experience of the league, not enough time with our players. We won't be able to judge him till next season.

May well be overpriced, but I would give him time, can take a while to adjust to new country, league , system., a year ago many of you would have said Lukaku was overpriced now there's talk of his value being a lot higher.

Absolutely a few places - you can include last season as well. Joel is learning and not an "ace" yet, but his overall presence is far and above Flappy Howard at this point.

I wouldn't take him even if he was playing tbh. Some players just don't fit into sides and I don't think he fits in a Hodgson England team unfortunately.

If we're going to spend on a keeper, and Robles isn't seen as a viable candidate to be number one, then I'd prefer to invest in a younger keeper who will be around for a long time.

Lads been quality. Absolute epitome of an "everton type" player. Deserves the recognition but I hope he stays for a long time.

It's true his performance levels have dropped but in the last few games compared to the excellent form he has showed for the first 20 or so games. The main difference, I believe, is that we've come up against stoic defences and he's had 2 CBs either up his arse or climbing all over him, and specifically in this game watching the ball piss about all around him without ever coming within 30m of him. It was very reminiscent of last years football, as was WBA which is no suprise to me at all that he suffered.
 
Yes, he could move more but honestly what would that have achieved? The ball was always pinging around the side lines or halfway line whilst he was then expected to make space between 2 CB and 2 DCM. That gap between him and the midfield was enormous at times, and we could've done with Ross or Cleverley getting closer to him and providing some kind of support.
 
Like I said, he should've done better but he was clearly frustrated about his lack of involvement. We're never going to agree, I know, but he isn't looking like a player who wants out, he looks like a player who wants to win and is pissed off that he's not performing well. Simple as that for me.

Please happen.

With respect, you're missing my point. If we're now able to build a team, then so are all other teams in the league. What matters, as far as progress and league position matters, is how we fare relative to other teams, not in absolute terms. In that light, we're no better off than before.

I don't think anyone is "making excuses" for martinez. I make excuses for no one when a lack of quality/professionalism costs Everton.
 
I believe establishing the criteria between "work in progress" and "enough is enough - get gone" is what is at debate.
 
He has a lot going for him, but his faults are costing him and overshadowing any good work.

Exactly. Some fans act like Martinez is doing nothing right at all. He has changed an aging squad, brought in some great young talent and is changing the way we play Football. It was never going to be seemless.
Therefore i don't think its as clear cut as saying its time to go, there is a bigger picture to look at.
 
People stuck by Moyes for 10 years and we basically stood still with a few highlights. At least with Martinez you can see what he is trying to build and create.
 
I hate seeing Managers sacked after a short time. You cant judge a manager after 2 years when so much needed changing at the club. He frustrates the life out of me at times but iv never seen us play so much great football either. Just my opinion.

Seems like he's suffering from 'New Contract Syndrome', the same one that hit Saha.
 
Played very well for the first few games of the season, triggered a contract talk, signed new pay packet and consequently forgot how to play.

He had a slight improvement in form a few weeks ago and that's about it in all his time here
 
He can hold the ball up but does very little else one of a few I'd like to see shipped out as soon as possible

We had the second most shots EVER in the PL for a side that still lost the game. So it gets worse, Shukes .

Hate to do this but we had the most shots over the weekend...33
 
West Brom had the least shots on target in the premier...1

But you have to think about the holes that are left if you remove these sort of players. You also have to think that the opposing manager won't just stand there thinking 'Oooh look, a nice big gap in their midfield'...they'll exploit it. So then the dynamics of the game change.
 
You can bring on a couple of extra attacking players in place of a couple of deeper players...but again, you leave a big gap. Not only that but the attacking players all try to occupy the same positions and 'stand on each others toes'. Then because their mindset is to 'attack', the instinct isn't to track back...so the gaps are there to be exploited.
 
The way we set up pins WBA back. The tactics weren't wrong. You don't get so much possession, shots, corners etc if the tactics are wrong. Everything was there...its upto the players to put the ball in the back of the net...and the tactics enabled them to have 30+ opportunities to do so.
 
It's just another shit result that this young squad need to learn from. But yeah, said that too often this season!!!

Are you suggesting I've talked rubbish before? I resent that (though It's undoubtedly true).
 
Just wish I had your insight and knowledge, being right all the time must be great. FACT.

Bringing on Kone just doesn't make sense no matter who goes off

So typically Everton!
 
I thought we played well enough in the first half and were very unlucky to be behind at half time . Second half we completely ran out of ideas and once again no plan B
 
Today highlighted exactly why we are a mid table side

I can see the logic on the idea of bringing a second striker to attach the long post from the left while you overload the right side. However, when that chap is Kone, we should change the idea.
 
I like the idea of a dangerous passer with great close control to open the defense with nice split pass. However, when that option is Osman or Pienaar, we should reevaluate our options.
 
I like the idea of inserting a dribbling maverick in Deulofeu to try to get a pen on tired legs. Lennon was playing well though and perhaps he should have done a different sub?
 
It is like the talent evaluation happened at the beginning of the season for Martinez and he can't look how poor Kone has been lately... Mirallas must have missed that day too, because he is a peripherial figure at best.

I love how some people always get it right after the game.
 
WBA is one of those teams that, if you manage to break the lock, the goals flow and they get tonked easily. If you don't, it is hard as nails as the players get impatient. Of all the discussions we have had on previous games, today we did not score because of the post and because it is actually hard for any team to break down 10 man in the box.
 
Another no. 10 on the team could help, though.

Unchanged team. Sighs of relief all around.