Trigger

For me it's at the point of "arrogance and philosophy" over "adaptability and change".
 
The definition of madness is doing the same thing time and again and expecting a different result.
 
If you were about to play an Everton/Martinez side you would know the following and be able to train to counteract the style for a whole training week usually.
 
1) we will play 4-2-3-1
2) we will play possession football deep in our own half
3) we will look to push up our fullbacks whenever possible
4) we are weak at defending set pieces
 
SAF used to have a philosophy and a favoured formation, but if it wasn't working he'd change it. Then other managers find it much more difficult to plan to how you're going to play. And I don't mean a knee jerk change. I mean a well planned, fully trained selection of back up formation and plays that can be utilised when Plan A clearly isn't working.
 
Could you imagine if Martinez put out a 4-4-2 Direct Ball team just for one match? Do you think the opposition would be ready for that as they try to pressurise us high up the pitch only to watch it go sailing over their heads in to the spaces behind?
 
Next match it keeps the manager guessing as to what we're going to do. By all means have your core philosophy to play to, but this should be augmented by other styles as a Plan B and C.
 
We keep going out to play exactly the same way in the same formation, with nearly the same players every time and when we lose, do the same all over again as though it was a one-off and it'll be better next time if we just keep plugging away and work harder at the same things.
 
Very Frustrating!

I would driven Naismith down to Norwich myself for that fee. I cant believe he's rated that highly. I just don't see it.

I would driven Naismith down to Norwich myself for that fee. I cant believe he's rated that highly. I just don't see it.

To me in Martinez's first season the playmaker was very much Barry but from a deep position. The Center Backs would split, Barry would come back and pick the Ball up from Deep and then we would look to play it quickly down one wing or the other. Usually a pass to an advanced winger with the fullbacks then overlapping to receive the ball and either cross or cut in to shoot/short pass to edge of box.
 
This then seemed to get sussed by the opposition by pressing us high up the pitch, forcing in to mistakes at the back and in defensive midfield. Barry also seemed to lose the ability to pick a pass from the back in season 2 as well. The few games that Darren Gibson either started in place of Barry or replaced him as sub last year I thought he picked this role up very well and we looked a lot better.
 
Since getting sussed, Martinez seems to have pushed the playmaker role up the pitch to the AM/No.10 role and on to Ross, which has seemed to result in slower build up play and less overlapping by the Fullbacks. Unfortunately I just don't think this is Ross's best position. I think he plays
 
I'm hoping that Martinez is looking for a more creative No.10 so that we can set ourselves up to play both ways, depending on how the opposition are set-up. If we are pressed high up the pitch, we look to play up to the 10 to exploit the space left behind the players pressing us. If we're not being pressed high up the pitch we look to play more from deep via the wings and overlapping fullbacks with Ross playing instead of Barry.
 
If we are to continue playing the way we do currently we most definitely need a full on creative no.10 to play in the hole and they are rarer than rocking horse poo.

To me in Martinez's first season the playmaker was very much Barry but from a deep position. The Center Backs would split, Barry would come back and pick the Ball up from Deep and then we would look to play it quickly down one wing or the other. Usually a pass to an advanced winger with the fullbacks then overlapping to receive the ball and either cross or cut in to shoot/short pass to edge of box.
 
This then seemed to get sussed by the opposition by pressing us high up the pitch, forcing in to mistakes at the back and in defensive midfield. Barry also seemed to lose the ability to pick a pass from the back in season 2 as well. The few games that Darren Gibson either started in place of Barry or replaced him as sub last year I thought he picked this role up very well and we looked a lot better.
 
Since getting sussed, Martinez seems to have pushed the playmaker role up the pitch to the AM/No.10 role and on to Ross, which has seemed to result in slower build up play and less overlapping by the Fullbacks. Unfortunately I just don't think this is Ross's best position. I think he plays
 
I'm hoping that Martinez is looking for a more creative No.10 so that we can set ourselves up to play both ways, depending on how the opposition are set-up. If we are pressed high up the pitch, we look to play up to the 10 to exploit the space left behind the players pressing us. If we're not being pressed high up the pitch we look to play more from deep via the wings and overlapping fullbacks with Ross playing instead of Barry.
 
If we are to continue playing the way we do currently we most definitely need a full on creative no.10 to play in the hole and they are rarer than rocking horse poo.

"Kenwright, meanwhile, finds himself in the rare position of receiving credit where credit is due."
 
From almost everywhere.

Although their maths are wrong, just bear in mind that that if we sell a player for £15m, we do not have the directly to buy one in £15m.
 
The tax man takes a share when you sell a player and no doubt there are a load of other costs e.g. Legal, Admin, twatty agents etc. that will also get covered.

I disagree that the model is unacceptable. I'd agree it's barely sustainable (but it is just) and the likelyhood of it producing a consistant Top 4 finish is a remote one. However, In my opinion, it is better this way than beting everything on "black" and seeing what happens.
 
I also disagree that a New Stadium on its own is the solution. It would need a strategic investment across playing staff, improved infrastructure and a fully funded commercial/marketing plan around generating greater income internationally. This can only be done with "sugar daddy" investor who doesn't mind too much if it doesn't work. QPR and Fernandes come to mind, although who knows in another few years.
 
And talking of FACTS there is absolutely no way on this earth you can state that a New Stadium can be guarenteed to make EFC more successful unless you can guarentee the forecasted revenues it would produce (which you can't because no one can). I would argue that if any money at all got diverted at all from player or staff wage budgets to in any way to fund or end up filling a funding void should forecasted tickets or marketing sales fall short then we would fall out of the premiership.

I just don't see a "right" or "only" way forward here. It's simply a matter of what we are willing to risk as a club to potentially gain further success and move us on.
 
Clubs fit in to sort of 4 models to me.
 
1) Run your club on a "Championship League" cost base, make money while you're in the premiership, make less or break even if you're in the championship. Player Wages are generally low, very little if any transfer spending over £5m,most players brought up through lower leagues, loans or youth system. I'd view WBA as opperating under this model. There is very little risk your club is going to go into administration, but then again there's a VERY SMALL chance you're ever going to get in to the Top 4.
 
2) Sell your club (and usually it's soul) to a mega-rich bazillionaire who got bored of racing his ferrari's with the other rich folks and wants a new challenge and to show that he/she can manage his/her toy better than his mega-rich peers. Great way to get success in the short term, we've yet to see what happens in 20 years+ when they all get bored of their "football club toys" and move on and take their money elsewhere. I'd view Man City and Chelsea in this model.
 
3) Live within your means model. The model we pretty much operate in today. We try to control costs as best we can, buy great players when we have the financial resources. Sell our better players at huge profit when it's right. We look to move stadium if we can do it at relatively low risk with as much funding provided risk free by other parties who may also benefit e.g. a Tesco, Council/Government Grants etc. We only move forward if we believe we can do so without signing up to a funding model where if the forecasted gates and marketing revenues are not met, we don't go into administration and turn in to the next Portsmouth.
 
4) Raise your own capital based upon the forecast of success. Build a new stadium, buy expensive great players all based upon funding from investors/banks on the promise that your forecast business case says you'll get bigger crowds who will pay more for the better facilities (Arsenal I believe are the most expensive season ticket club in the premiership) and the forecast success with better players will meen more overseas marketing income as well as European Football revenues. I'd view Arsenal in this Model, but also Leeds which means it's a major risk. You're shooting for the moon here, where if verything goes as it should, you could have your next Man Utd being developed. If it goes wrong then you we will be the next Leeds.
 
Since there are no guarentees of success and we don't have a bazillionaire ready to buy us. I'm happy with the model we have. I want us to break in to the top 4 with what we have now as I believe if we get the right manager we can do this. Then if we can get even a half-decent run in Europe we can probably look at funding a new stadium in a viable way.
 
To me John Burns proposes an Option 4) model that I think is too risky for us.

One Question:
 
 
11 years ago who would have put David Moyes on their shortlist?
 
- no premiership experience
- some success with Preston NE, but their were plenty of other championship teams doing better.
- no european experience
 
He obviously had the right skills to do a fantastic job though!
 
I think Martinez is a similar mould and he would be my choice.
 
If we selceted an experienced (top division and european) and successful with a large transfer/wage budget and European I think it would be a very expensive mistake with us probablyt ending up the next Leeds Utd.

One Question:
 
 
11 years ago who would have put David Moyes on their shortlist?
 
- no premiership experience
- some success with Preston NE, but their were plenty of other championship teams doing better.
- no european experience
 
He obviously had the right skills to do a fantastic job though!
 
I think Martinez is a similar mould and he would be my choice.
 
If we selceted an experienced (top division and european) and successful with a large transfer/wage budget and European I think it would be a very expensive mistake with us probablyt ending up the next Leeds Utd.

One Question:
 
 
11 years ago who would have put David Moyes on their shortlist?
 
- no premiership experience
- some success with Preston NE, but their were plenty of other championship teams doing better.
- no european experience
 
He obviously had the right skills to do a fantastic job though!
 
I think Martinez is a similar mould and he would be my choice.
 
If we selceted an experienced (top division and european) and successful with a large transfer/wage budget and European I think it would be a very expensive mistake with us probablyt ending up the next Leeds Utd.

One Question:
 
 
11 years ago who would have put David Moyes on their shortlist?
 
- no premiership experience
- some success with Preston NE, but their were plenty of other championship teams doing better.
- no european experience
 
He obviously had the right skills to do a fantastic job though!
 
I think Martinez is a similar mould and he would be my choice.
 
If we selceted an experienced (top division and european) and successful with a large transfer/wage budget and European I think it would be a very expensive mistake with us probablyt ending up the next Leeds Utd.

Transitions of managers from a club doing relatively well never go smoothly.
 
I'd personally like Martinez, but fully expect a dip in league position next year while he builds the team and type of play he wants.
 
Undoubtedly we'll lose Felli and Baines as well. I just hope we get the top end of the money spectrum from them for the new manager to rebuild with.

I don't reckon they will. From what I've read they have a lot of high wage earners.
 
I think they have too many players where the money is more important than their career that will not move unless their wages are kept at a similar rate.

One thing is for sure.
 
Now the media know we can even vaguely possibly spend £8.5m, we're going to be linked with every available player between now and the end of the window.
 
Then probably ongoing in to the summer as well!

Isn't that what we're doing?
 
Twente say: "yeah the young lad Fer has a bit of a knee problem, but it's nothing serious our medical staff have full confidence it will not affect him long term, we're happy for your medical chaps to have a look at confirm."
 
Everton say: "ok we'll provisionally sign off on the commercials discussed, subject to the medical and personal terms."
 
then we do the medical... oh look!
 
Everton say: " we do not agree with your medical assessment, we belive based on facts x,y,z etc. that we need to safeguard our investment based upon these new payment terms to mitigate the risk of the player having knee problems later in his career."
 
the problem in the way we handle this is what?

Isn't that what we're doing?
 
Twente say: "yeah the young lad Fer has a bit of a knee problem, but it's nothing serious our medical staff have full confidence it will not affect him long term, we're happy for your medical chaps to have a look at confirm."
 
Everton say: "ok we'll provisionally sign off on the commercials discussed, subject to the medical and personal terms."
 
then we do the medical... oh look!
 
Everton say: " we do not agree with your medical assessment, we belive based on facts x,y,z etc. that we need to safeguard our investment based upon these new payment terms to mitigate the risk of the player having knee problems later in his career."
 
the problem in the way we handle this is what?

Isn't that what we're doing?
 
Twente say: "yeah the young lad Fer has a bit of a knee problem, but it's nothing serious our medical staff have full confidence it will not affect him long term, we're happy for your medical chaps to have a look at confirm."
 
Everton say: "ok we'll provisionally sign off on the commercials discussed, subject to the medical and personal terms."
 
then we do the medical... oh look!
 
Everton say: " we do not agree with your medical assessment, we belive based on facts x,y,z etc. that we need to safeguard our investment based upon these new payment terms to mitigate the risk of the player having knee problems later in his career."
 
the problem in the way we handle this is what?

Isn't that what we're doing?
 
Twente say: "yeah the young lad Fer has a bit of a knee problem, but it's nothing serious our medical staff have full confidence it will not affect him long term, we're happy for your medical chaps to have a look at confirm."
 
Everton say: "ok we'll provisionally sign off on the commercials discussed, subject to the medical and personal terms."
 
then we do the medical... oh look!
 
Everton say: " we do not agree with your medical assessment, we belive based on facts x,y,z etc. that we need to safeguard our investment based upon these new payment terms to mitigate the risk of the player having knee problems later in his career."
 
the problem in the way we handle this is what?

Isn't that what we're doing?
 
Twente say: "yeah the young lad Fer has a bit of a knee problem, but it's nothing serious our medical staff have full confidence it will not affect him long term, we're happy for your medical chaps to have a look at confirm."
 
Everton say: "ok we'll provisionally sign off on the commercials discussed, subject to the medical and personal terms."
 
then we do the medical... oh look!
 
Everton say: " we do not agree with your medical assessment, we belive based on facts x,y,z etc. that we need to safeguard our investment based upon these new payment terms to mitigate the risk of the player having knee problems later in his career."
 
the problem in the way we handle this is what?