Hafnia

Based on what hulk went for maybe, but for me no shrewd club will.

I'm playing golf at 8am so I hope so!

He's not worth anything near £15m at the moment. Blimey, I wish I was a 6ft 3 unit. Let's get it right, Chelsea took a gamble on him at the fee they paid out. It hasnt worked. He's not the only option we have. They need to take a loss on him, he's on a good wage, and the overall package has cost them a lot.

Is this getting gonna get filed in the "shite thread" folder???

Ferguson sees himself in David moyes, Moyes sees himself in Phil Neville... Not literally before all the sniggering children.. There is a clear flow as to how these similarities don't exactly mean you are getting quality. It's like Chinese whispers in manager evolution gone shite.

He has a formation in mind and that selects what the players do... Whether it's their natural role or not. Square pegs round holes.

Here we go.... A big part of the Moyes story is the situation of the team when he took over... Quite frankly we were shit. That squad of players in todays game are bottom of the league, it was just that back then there were teams as bad, it was a case of being organised better and working hard to make the difference. Moyes came in and did what pulis has done to palace. Galvanized the morale, gave them a different perspective in how to get results. To get that shit that Smith gor the sack, we fans witnessed year after year of shite replacing shite, then a batch of retiring ex greats come to show the goodison faithful how sad it is when legs go. Albeit for £30k a week. Moyes first game seen the fans applaud him on the pitch against Fulham, a great start by unsworth, madness by Ferguson seen us struggle to a morale boosting win. The sight of Moyes tearing jesper blomkvist a new one after showing dissent was awesome, we had an arse kicker on our hands. So it turned out, Moyes took a bunch of free loaders and added a much needed element of steel, discipline, structure and hard work. He also inherited Wayne Rooney. Rooney was a freak, possibly the closest thing I have seen to a one man team in my years watching Everton. At the time, Rooney was bigger than the team, bigger than the manager wanted him to be. When Everton have a hero, the fans demand and expect. Moyes didn't like that. Moyes wants to be the main man and ensures that no one will be bigger than him. Rooney had a patchy final season under Moyes - rumours of fall outs, Rooney getting benched, played out of position, weight gain. A bad season seen us dip abd after Euro 2004 Rooney gave the club a £28m cash injection. Moyes made some excellent signings, talented cheap pros with something to prove. Loan to buy, lower league etc. A 4-5-1 system seen us hard to beat, a series of 1-0 wins got us over the line and we miraculously made champions league. At this time I thought the man was a genius. The failed CL qualifier was gutting but we were so happy to see what more he could deliver with better players etc. He continued to evolve the team with better players but in all honesty the style and progression of football didn't evolve. Same tactics, same mistakes, same surrenders at top 4 stadiums. There were some mutterings of "this is shite" - only to be shushed with "look what he's done for us" This last chapter repeated itself with some contract renewals where he leveraged his popularity with fans petrified to think how we would survive without him. He did it well, £70k a week. He stopped challenging the board for money, kept talking about us being poor... Kept putting them team out to boring one dimensional tactics, continued to look more and more disinterested, negativity in every interview, the fans drowning in apathy. Anyway, that was pretty much the chronological story of Moyes. For me he has a certain skill set - to patch up a broken team. Once stable he should walk away to the next broken one. A decent manager at best. Not a top 6 manager of a top level league.

When you should have been looking at a manager from a pool of managers like mourinho, pep, klopp, hiddink, you actually selected the best from a pool like pulis, Martin oneill, allardyce, Clarke, jol, hodgson. I'll give further context later. Waiting for my Chinese banquet at the moment...

Keep your spirits up Mike, all rooting for ya as nik says. Kick it's arse!

Shite thread. Ridiculous to be honest. Leave it at this... The team is better than the one Moyes left behind with some money remaining no doubt. I have big reservations about kenwright but FFS I honestly worry about how some think the transfer policy should be in the club. Let's see how Bill sorts things out in the Sumner. Until then, enjoy the better performance, the increased positivity, the better performances against top 4 sides and please just stop with the ridiculous premature expectations of a manager who has made big strides with our club.

I think I sense an agenda here...

. Think you all deserve it to counter the annoying snipes I will likely continue to make at the expense of moysie.

Breaking the top 5 is not a one season few tweaks ease into it.... It's more a get a new style, get the right players and then make the breakthrough.... Breakthrough being the word to describe a clear league within a league, we could probably finish where Moyes did without too much of an improvement but we would be no where nearer breaking top 5, we could massively improve (which we have) and still finish in the same position such is the differential in quality of the top 4/5 teams.

Ideal for the fringe players - thats it, and the fans sorry! But yeah, I feel as though we do need to focus on the league - however the fringe players could progress us far.

Last night was a bonus - to those who didn't waste a trip... We have fresh players for the FA Cup match on Sunday after Swansea had a tough 90 minutes...

we could have a true world class talent have his breakout season...

The injury may have been a blessing in disguise in one way. He was really starting to show his class, based on that Barca may have thought - "we have a game changer to keep on the bench for the last 20 mins". If we have him next season - with a full pre season behind him I expect massive things.

Thats because my conclusion of his is this:- He's a man who did a great job for 2-3 years, who dined out on it, and rather than push himself to evolve as a coach he decided to sell his performance as a "its as good as it gets for this club". Sad. In doing that he pushed aside our proud history and for all those fans born in the mid to late 80's and beyond - brainwashed them into believing he was as good as we could get. The club like it or not is bigger than any manager or era of financial mismanagement - to accept a patched up version is unacceptable and the apathy that he drew on many fans was a complete disgrace. I would have had more respect for him if after his "show me investement" stance he said "I can't take this club any further" - because lets be honest he knew and we knew he couldn't. It wasn't purely down to transfer money... as many have said, limit him to £8m max per player and you will see a squad of players he can work with. Give him the money to buy ego's and he clashes due to the fact that he can't work with elite level players - he is a limited coach, simple as that. And thats where I am with him, the frustration of watching him earn a fortune from just operating on a mid table budget providing lower level brand of football to return a position our salary expenditure warrants just doesn't sit right with me. Throw in to the fact that he has disprespected our club to win favour with his new employers was the final straw for me. He is a self serving, arrogant deluded man, who tarnished his early rescue act for me. You can include the fact that I have stated he is hard working, book balancer, eye for bargain, disciplined anywhere within all that above, but i'm sure you will see it counts for very little. The reason I take swipes at him is due to the fact that I am still extremely angry with him.

Too right I was - stop thinking of the conclusions I offer and foucs on how I got there... there are compliments but the overall opinion ain't great, it's still balanced.

I loved the part where martinez explained that he is introducing different things as the players progress - its like he's going through an extensive playbook. All these potential permutations of how we can play in certain situations is just way too much for me to handle - pure optimism.

If we achieve Top 4 in Martinez first season it will be the biggest managerial achievement the prem league has seen IMO. The fact that we are still in the running with a new improved brand of football shows me the potential this manager has. Enjoy this transition folks.

Watch him without the ball, the hallmark of a great player is what they do without it. He is as close to a Roy Keane replacement that United could have got in terms if where he will be in a year or so.

Strange thread title to be honest, did we play tonight and lose or something? Maybe it should be titled, "4th looks a challenge now, let's moan about it" Ffs we are still in the hunt, Martinez like many managers know that the type of striker we need isn't going to be available in January, unless other teams want to sell their goal threats half way through the season? In other words they don't unless you stick an extra £10m to the price. Unsurprisingly Dunc uses this as an opportunity to further try and dilute the impact Martinez has had and compare it to some form of "just the same as Moyes but pass it round the back".... Let it go Dunc, your ex idol is being shown fir the limited manager he is. Did anyone watch Man United tonight? Embarrassing yet again, arsenal lack lustre and they still settle for the draw. I don't give a crap what anyone says, this season has been the first in a long long time where I have been given hope that we may return to a club with pride in how we play the game.

Riiiiiigggghhhhhttttt......

News just in, the British bobsled team are looking to hire Moyes as coach, they've never seen anyone take a team downhill so fast.