nogs

He cocked up for the goals and had a very poor last half hour. But I actually thought for an hour he and Sigurdsson did a brilliant job implementing a plan which naturally neither of them are particularly well suited to, they gave no one in Leicester's midfield any space to play at all. The turning point was Iheanacho coming on, him being prepared to drop off the back three and run with the ball caused chaos in our two defensive lines and it took us a while to react. You have to say great tactical awareness from Rodgers. 

Davies has to take this on the chin and get his head right for the derby. We can't afford him taking a backward step in performances with our injury situation, so it might be a good idea if Everton fans got behind one of our own for once. 

Couldn't bring myself to vote yesterday but Sidibe proved why he has a World Cup winners medal yesterday. Bit concerned about what's going on with our other French full back though, couldn't make a pass yesterday. 

Yesterday still feels like a horrible kick in the teeth, I feel sorry for Silva and for the team because we did show real fight and got nothing for it. But I still have to go back to Norwich - surely anything like the application we showed yesterday and we'd have beaten them. That to me was a turning point - win that and we could take a couple of plucky-but-unlucky performances against the three teams who are absolutely flying were playing this week. We keep putting in God awful displays at the wrong time, and that will get you into a lot of trouble in the PL. I just don't see Silva injecting the change of momentum we need. 

Absolutely gutted. Thought it was a pretty disciplined hardworking performance, plenty of hard work but with little quality. But the way we're losing games, the people at the top need to wake up. We will get relegated if we don't make a change now. 

1 hour ago, markjazzbassist said:

bar some 10 game losing streak i think that means Marco is here till the summer.  like i said Brands knows we need stability and firing a manger every couple months make the job less attractive to future suitors and is a waste of company money that should be spent on players.

 

well done on the richarlison extension.

He's going to have to beat some of the top 6 in December then. I can see us bottom 3 by Xmas, his job will be untenable if so. 

2 hours ago, Shukes said:

Problem is that it’s Brands who wants to persevere isn’t it. He is in the media today saying how important it is to have patience with the current set up.

Or he's been sent out set put the official club position out there with speculation rife. He can hardly come out and say we need to change manager if the top brass have decided not yet! 

20 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Emery's available now.

I'm fuming Arsenal have sacked him first. They've lost 3 PL games this season, we've lost 7 and have had a dream run of fixtures really. How much shitter do we have to get before our board say enough is enough? 

And yeah, I was against jumping the gun sacking Silva. But losing at home to Norwich with a display that abject had to be a line in the sand. I honestly cannot believe we haven't acted. 

I'd be happy to take three points from the next three games. I think we'll get 0 and be utterly mired in the shit

19 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

I haven’t said we should exclude him, I’m just saying that’s the reality - there would be a lot of pushback and toxicity at the first sign of trouble, more than has come from any of our other managers, including the gravy guzzler. 

Not a great assessment of our fans then. Benitez is a better manager than fatty five chins could ever dream of being. 

2 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

Not even going into my full opinion of us hiring Benitez, I just don't think it would work. Can you imagine it if we lose a few under him? You'd have the agent Rafa shouts instantly. The atmosphere would be unlike anything that's come before.

So as fans should we just keep holding grudges even if it means cutting our noses off to spite our face? It's a professional game. Look at The job Rodgers is doing at Leicester - forget that he managed the shite, he's a cut above any manger we've had donkeys years, and I'd include Moyes in that despite being a Moyes fan. I know he's not a realistic option now but would we exclude him from our list too on principle? 

2 hours ago, pete0 said:

Again completely avoiding that he played when others were injured and out mostly then used out of position. If Moyes rated him why was he willing to let him go to Portsmouth? 

Still waiting on that list of players Moyes brought through... 

You are one stubborn bastard. 300 games Pete, 300 games!! A pretty decent career for a manager that didn't rate him and played him out of position. 

And when did I say I'd produce another list aside from those already mentioned - Rooney, Vaughan, Anichebe, Rodwell, Osman, Hibbert (kind of), Coleman, Barkley? 

Oh and for the record, and to hopefully close down yet another painfully repetitive debate, I do agree Moyes could have done more with young players, Duffy and Mustafi were a waste, he also had issues with discipline around talented kids like Baxter and Green. But still, I stand by my original point that his record of bringing through academy graduates was better than we've seen since he left. One playing regular first team football for us in 5 years isn't great imo. 

7 hours ago, pete0 said:

Your go to player is one for the team with a transfer ban forced to play kids. Fuck me. Any how, I'd expect Lampard's fitness regime to be a lot less intensive than Moyes. You really think Moyes didn't ruin any of their careers? Rodwell wasn't ready and got put in the wing only for him to disturb his injury and Moyes was screaming at Gosling to stay in the pitch with his injury. 

Completely ignoring the point Moyes was happy to sell him, only played him when others were injured and even then it was mostly out of position. Yea, he was really masterminding Osman's career... 

How many league games did Ossie play under Moyes? More than 300?? Yeah, clearly never rated him. And yeah Chelsea are my go to team for how kids can be used effectively - look at the table!! 

I thought you were all for bringing more kids through anyway? 

3 hours ago, pete0 said:

Both significantly older than the players I named. 

The sport now is for elite athletes. So you think a growing boy can handle as much as a grown man? 

Still waiting for the answers in Osman? 

And a list a players Moyes brought through... 

I meant Lampard use of kids for Chelsea this season, and Southgate for England. Both are happy to play teenagers. Is Lampard endangering Mount's career by playing him so much, not just this season but last year at Derby when he was still a teenager? 

Osman was 20 when Moyes took over, 23 when he broke through into the first team after a couple of loan spells. That's good managed progression of a young player. And so what that he got played right mid - he had a great season, was an integral part of our most successful league campaign since the 80s and wouldn't have got in ahead of Carsley, Gravesen/Arteta or Cahill in the middle anyway. Managers are entitled to play players 'out of position' when it works. 

41 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Integrated? How old was he when he starting playing through choice rather than forced by injury? What age when he was finally played in his position centrally? 

What's there not to get about teenagers and adults being different? 

I dunno, why don't you ask Lampard? Or Southgate?

Not saying I want him but I wonder if Brands would be interested in trying to poach Cocu from Derby given their history at PSV? 

10 hours ago, pete0 said:

Osman came to Moyes at 23 and had a good loan before he was even here, helped us get 4th but wasn't rated by Moyes who was willing to let him go to Portsmouth. Instead he stayed, got chances through injury, and played most of his career out of position. Moyes even played Arteta on the wing for how long!? 

I've named every youngster almost in his decade tenure and 4 out of 5 are crocks. That's piss poor management, one, for not bringing more through, and two, physically damaging them. They were kids and he was giving them an adults workload. 

Moyes was the one who sent Ossie out on loan, then integrated him into the first XI. And I don't get your point about 'adult workloads' at all. Are young players meant to put in less of a shift even if they're picked for the first team? I don't remember the likes of Vaughan and Anichebe playing many games from the start anyway. 

1 hour ago, Btay said:

We have serious problems and most of them are coming from seasoned pro’s. Simply put - experienced players are not performing remotely close to required levels.

#1 Gylfi

Price has nothing to do with it - absolutely poor all season and hasn’t made an effect at all. 

#2 Morgan 

Most games he plays he is 6/10 for 89 minutes and has 1 howler of a moment. 

#3 Strikers 

Cant score goals - not getting chances but also poor finishing. Silva has tried nearly every option ( everyone screamed for Tosun to start and he was terrible ). I actually don’t blame Silva here because he’s trying every option to make something click but no one wants to take up the mantle.

#4 - 4-2-3-1

Gana leaving and Gbamin’s injury have really left us short for this formation. Morgan isn’t up to it.

Confidence must be shot and I think Marco is seriously struggling and is in a damned if you, damned if you don’t. Anything he does right now with be met with ridicule “if” it doesn’t work. 

Good post. One thing I would say though is he isn't being brave, he's sticking with 4-2-3-1 and fielding players who just aren't up to it. If Gomes, Bernard, Delph etc were fit we'd probably have beaten Norwich, but I wouldn't put money on the XI he put out beating anyone in the PL. 

If it was me in charge I'd be playing 4-3-3 with Beni, Davies and Iwobi in midfield and Richarlison, DCL and Kean/Walcott up front. At the very least we'd have more mobility and hopefully more intent getting the ball into the front 3. I think Kean should be given a go in a front 3, his movement looks decent and he could work well off DCL who is the best target man we've got. I also think it is amazing that in Kean and Iwobi we have 60m in new signings warming the bench while Sigurdsson and Schneiderlin serve up exactly what everyone knows they will serve up, opponents included. That in itself should be setting alarm bells ringing - Silva knows his job is on the line, yet he's still fielding the flops the manager two before him signed instead of his most recent buys. Wtf is going on?? 

3 hours ago, pete0 said:

Rooney aside there's not many, and I don't really think you can give too much credit for him as he was naturally better than any man at the club before he was even old enough to play for the first team. 

Vaughan, Anichebe, Rodwell, and Gosling all lost their careers to him (fortunately Rooney was a head of the curb growth wise otherwise he'd have possibly joined them on the scrap heap). Moyes didn't appreciate they were boys playing at all elite level, the pace of football and height of fitness having much more toil on their bodies than back in his day. 

The Ross Barkley situation was just weird as well, wouldn't use him and then sent him on dodgy loans to a manager that said he wouldn't suit their system and they wouldn't play him every week. 

Only player I can think he brought through was Coleman who he hung up to dry against Benfica but then had a good loan at Blackpool. When he did come in it was on the right wing for some much needed pace but even then Moyes left him there too long with the majority of fans calling him to move to right back before Moyes finally did. Even then Coleman probably learned more from Phil Neville than Moyes. 

Osman?

And isn't that a slight contradiction, saying he ruined certain lads careers by putting them through the mill physically but then not playing youngsters enough?? Vaughan was tragically unlucky. Rodwell, I dunno if he was born with dodgy hammies or just didn't have it upstairs to play at the top level. Anichebe didn't have much wrong with him physically, just wasn't a great footballer. 

3 hours ago, Palfy said:

He may not be good and shouldn’t be here, but  he’s definitely not the only one, and him not playing or leaving won’t end the shit we are going through, so if people think when he’s gone our troubles will be over then they need to open their eyes to what else is going on. 

You could say exactly the same about Silva. The sum of it is we're in a mess. Again. 

17 minutes ago, Haiku said:

So what? We paid twice that for most of our players. Heck, Tosun costed us about £25 mil alone if I'm not mistaken. And that's just the signing fees, not counting the weekly salary, agent fees, bonuses etc. If the manager is good, that's a steal. Their improved league position will repay triple that expense. It's not a lot of money for someone who's job is as important as the whole playing staff together. Even £50 mil. a year looks like a good deal for someone who's going to get us in top 6 consistently season after season.

I'd suggest that to finish top 6 every season we need to be doing anything but looking at the Mourinhos of this world. We need a hungry manager who gets the club, has the talent and leadership to impose a vision and the commitment to stick at it over several years. 

Bailey I found your last post really bizarre. You really think Silva came to us a 'proven manager'? And yeah, I mentioned Wilder coz he has been a manager nearly 20 years, he's been round the block, learned his trade and now we're seeing the results of that at the highest level. Yet you list Bilic and Villas Boas as 'solid' - they did NOTHING in the PL. And do you really think Southgate would leave the England job for us right now?? 

And I dunno what you're on about half the players not caring. I'd say there are a handful of teams where that is a serious problem, and you seem to be suggesting that lack of effort isn't our problem, it's just our players are shite! 

5 minutes ago, barryj said:

Doesn’t make him the worst thing to happen to our club in living memory and worthy of wanting him to sell up?!

Thats ridiculous, let’s get it in some perspective. 

I'm not saying I agree with Palfy on him being the worst thing to happen to us. But I think Moshiri carries a lot more responsibility than being 'a bit naive'. 

The difficulty we're in now is that Silva was the 'up and coming young manager' pick and it has backfired. We can't risk going down that route again now. We're back into damage limitation, inspiring a badly underperforming and unbalanced squad, someone who can hold some ground while the squad rebuild continues, someone who knows the PL. There aren't many who fit that bill. Rafa makes a lot of sense, but would he do it? Howe seems to need a certain profile of player to work with, Wilder won't leave Sheff Utd, we've missed out on Rodgers (and Mourinho for people of that persuasion). I don't think it's an easy next move at all. 

4 hours ago, pete0 said:

He ran out of ideas and should have been sacked a good three years earlier than he left. But Bill stuck by him through shear loyalty only to be repaid by Moyes doing the dirty and running down his contract, which is even worse as Moyes had criticised players for doing the same. 

The bloke's a dinosaur, as he even managed a second season since leaving us? He also barely brought through a youth player and stuck with favourites out of position over them. The worst occasion opting for Hibbert on an injury to play centre half over Duffy and Mustafi. Playing Neville against Wigan in the FA cup semi or am injured Rodwell on the wing being contenders too. 

He brought through more youngsters than we've managed to since he left. Even though I still wished he'd been a bit braver blooding youngsters, his record wasn't that bad.