holystove

Don't think I was twisting your words. You said you hoped your Brexit influenced other countries to also choose to quit the EU. I replied that such a message is only being picked up by the far-right-wing parties, who are uniting behind quitting the EU.
Also don't see how each country reverting back unto itself has anything to do with uniting people.
 
I think it's a bad evolution that people feel the need to say fuck you to (mainstream) political parties; it pushes them to extremists such as UKIP, FN, AfD, PVV, Vlaams Belang on the right, and to the communists on the left.
Trump is also riding the fuck-you establishment wave, with terms like "take your country back", and "make your country great again".

Might be important to keep in mind that the only ones from the continent congratulating you are Le Pen, Wilders, Lega Nord, Orban.. Not one mainstream party has said that a Brexit is a good thing.
It's OK to be proud of your victory, but patting yourself on the back for having united the facsists of Europe is taking it a step to far for me.

Might be important to keep in mind that the only ones from the continent congratulating you are Le Pen, Wilders, Lega Nord, Orban.. Not one mainstream party has said that a Brexit is a good thing.
It's OK to be proud of your victory, but patting yourself on the back for having united the facsists of Europe is taking it a step to far for me.

Might be important to keep in mind that the only ones from the continent congratulating you are Le Pen, Wilders, Lega Nord, Orban.. Not one mainstream party has said that a Brexit is a good thing.
It's OK to be proud of your victory, but patting yourself on the back for having united the facsists of Europe is taking it a step to far for me.

I agree with Steve (thank you for not using the word bureaucrat in your post ). 99% of legislation from the EU still has to do with the Common Market though, so all those regulations and rules you feel hold Britain back, will still apply if you want to remain in the Common Market. Don't think Farage would go for that.
 
The idea of a two-speed Europe has existed for a long time, where you'd have a core Europe with deeper integration and then other countries who are not (yet) ready for such integration (because they are too weak economically, or they have a strong cultural/historical adversity towards unity between European states, or ...). Theoretically this Core Europe would then have a "centripetal effect", a magnetic attraction for the rest of Europe.
 
Geert Wilders (the Dutch anti-Islam facsist) has already congratulated the UK and calls for a vote in the Netherlands; so has the Vlaams Belang (Flemish very right wing party); .. I think it's a bit early to have referenda on membership in all these countries (although I the dutch and belgian would be firmly in). First we need to see how the UK-exit is handled.
 
Think Cameron should resign now (also if Remain had won); he just split his country in two.

So vote out, to theem vote back in. It seems a little wrong, as a union no one should get special treatment otherwise it won't work.

Steve, I do get it and it's why I've stated from the beginning that I hope Leave wins. I also genuinely respect people who vote Leave because they have zero affinity with the European project (with the premise that they are informed of course).
By the way, even among continentals I am in the big minority with my conviction that it would be in every European citizen's best interest for there to be a "united states" of Europe.
 
My reply to your post wasn't about all of that. I replied to your statement that
1/ bureaucrats decide policy
2/ that it would ever be feasible for Russia to get a better trade deal than the UK.
That just shows such a level of "misunderstanding" (stronger terms may apply) that it pains me that such convictions are held by your family and friends.
 
Anyway, go Blues..

Such negativity is exactly what's wrong with how the public in the UK views the EU.
 
First of all, "bureaucrats" will have zero say over what trade deals will be put in place after a Brexit. Politicians decide that. The UK is just as much ran by bureaucrats as the EU...
Do you genuinely believe that Russia will get a better deal than Britain? Even with all the sanctions because of the annexation of Crimea? That's just absurd, Steve.
If a Brexit happens, the Belgian GDP will drop by an estimated 0.5% tot 1% so it is also in other member states' intrest to negotiate good deals.
 
If you remain, you will be part of the EU. Therefor if you refer to the EU it should be as "we". You won't be forced to accept anything that you didn't have a say in.
 
Seems to me you can't really blame good will going out of the window for some other Europeans, when it was never there in the first place for the Brits (granted this is to a large degree your media's fault).

Such negativity is exactly what's wrong with how the public in the UK views the EU.
 
First of all, "bureaucrats" will have zero say over what trade deals will be put in place after a Brexit. Politicians decide that. The UK is just as much ran by bureaucrats as the EU...
Do you genuinely believe that Russia will get a better deal than Britain? Even with all the sanctions because of the annexation of Crimea? That's just absurd, Steve.
If a Brexit happens, the Belgian GDP will drop by an estimated 0.5% tot 1% so it is also in other member states' intrest to negotiate good deals.
 
If you remain, you will be part of the EU. Therefor if you refer to the EU it should be as "we". You won't be forced to accept anything that you didn't have a say in.
 
Seems to me you can't really blame good will going out of the window for some other Europeans, when it was never there in the first place for the Brits (granted this is to a large degree your media's fault).

Always wanted to respond to this but forgot. For the full list that debunks or clarifies every single item on your list, go to this official website : http://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/euromyths-a-z-index/ The EC has responded to over 400 myths published by the British media. These range from the absurd (fishing boats will be forced to carry condoms) to the ridiculous (zippers on trousers will be banned). Some are seemingly the result of wilful misunderstandigs. A story published by the Sun in 1999 claimed that the queen would suddenly have to make her own tea because of new EU rules. Not only is this inaccurate, but the laws that this referred to were enacted by Britain itself in 1993. Another artikel in the Daily Star in 2004 reckoned that the EU was going to limit the speed of children's playground roundabouts. This voluntary guidline was not even proposed by the EU at all, but rather by a different organisation with the word "Europe" in its name. There is no other country in the EU where the media publishes these amount of fabricated stories. I think this shows there has always been a certain hostility and suspicion towards the EU from the beginning. If Remain wins, maybe the biggest reform needed is on the reporting on the EU in Britain.

Always wanted to respond to this but forgot. For the full list that debunks or clarifies every single item on your list, go to this official website : http://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/euromyths-a-z-index/ The EC has responded to over 400 myths published by the British media. These range from the absurd (fishing boats will be forced to carry condoms) to the ridiculous (zippers on trousers will be banned). Some are seemingly the result of wilful misunderstandigs. A story published by the Sun in 1999 claimed that the queen would suddenly have to make her own tea because of new EU rules. Not only is this inaccurate, but the laws that this referred to were enacted by Britain itself in 1993. Another artikel in the Daily Star in 2004 reckoned that the EU was going to limit the speed of children's playground roundabouts. This voluntary guidline was not even proposed by the EU at all, but rather by a different organisation with the word "Europe" in its name. There is no other country in the EU where the media publishes these amount of fabricated stories. I think this shows there has always been a certain hostility and suspicion towards the EU from the beginning. If Remain wins, maybe the biggest reform needed is on the reporting on the EU in Britain.

If a company invests in poor parts of Europe (don't know the criteria, but every country has such regions) they get financial aid from the EU (through loans, subsidies, ...). The EU doesn't force a company to relocate though (it would be absurd to believe that).
 
Belgium has the same problem as the UK in that a lot of big companies leave the country to go to cheaper countries; I could make a list just as long as Lowensda. The reason these companies leave is because its cheaper to have production in another country. It's more expensive in the UK (and Belgium) because of national fiscal policy (for example in Belgium, there are huge taxes on income). This is a political decision by national governments. You can't blame this on the EU, as evidenced by the fact that Germany (a rich country) is a beneficiary of companies relocating; they have a more company-friendly fiscal policy (not saying this is better).
 
And if that is most important to you, a Brexit will only make it worse, as not only will the UK be crippled by its own fiscal policy, it will face tariffs etc to export to the biggest single market in the world (coincidentally, the neighbours of the UK).
 
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Anyway good luck tomorrow, either way it goes, it will be very interesting.

We get off tomorrow.

one for transfer rumours, one for Hafs ranting. Makes sense to me! 
Oh, and by last count we had 147 Lukaku threads...

That Avaaz tribute didn't read any more than "continue her work" a typical obituary for people who are passionate, fighting for other people rights and in public life, particularly those who have died before their time at the hands of an ideological nutcase
 
A far cry from this:
 

Initially the European Coal and Steel Community, °1951, was created to have economic alliances between the countries of Europe so there would never be war amongst them again.
 
The EU, °1992, was never only intended to be an economic bloc because it was established after the complete integration of the internal market. One of the fundamental principles of the EU is the evolution towards an ever closer union in every aspect (political, cultural, ...).
 
So in essence, yes the EU should tell member states what to do.
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If you view the EU as a group of member states who each want to get the best possible deal for themselves, then by all means you should vote leave, both for yourself and for the betterment of the Union.
 
The way I see the EU:
- brings peace throughout Europe
- allows me to have a voice in a globalized world (EU is at the forfront of the fight against global warming, EU fights for human rights, ...)
- is the best opportunity for less wealthy European nations to get a better standard of living
- it protects me from unlawful actions from my own government

This explains a lot.
https://twitter.com/DaveKeating/status/744235880605319168

Just saw a map on tv which showed that the areas of the UK that receive the most funds from the EU and have the fewest amount of immigrants, have the highest percentage of people in favor of Brexit.
 
Same with Trump voters, most of them would in reality be better of voting for Bernie Sanders.
 
People are (unknowingly) voting against their best intrests because someone convinced them of abstract concepts like sovereignty and patriotism/nationalism. America first/Britain first instead of putting yourself first..
 
Shows the importance of educating the public which this last week before the vote should be about.

You are dead right in what your saying. But, and it's just a wee but, the 2 paths are slightly different.
 
It's not respect towards fans who chat shit about him, shout abuse, etc etc. I find that behaviour and talk of honour etc from the same fans quite ironic.
 
And it's right that at the end of the day, he's paid to play football and that is all. He wants to achieve as much as possible in what is a short career. Fair enough.
 
But there are ways to go about it. And without a doubt he has gone the wrong way about it. He may, only may, have dug himself into a hole.

He's a 23 year old guy from Antwerp, why on earth would he be an 'Evertonian' in the romanticized, misty-eyed sense being used here? Guys like Cahill and Howard are extraordinarily rare. For most foreign players Everton - and in fact any club - is just a career step. And there's nothing wrong with that. Fans always demand 'loyalty' from players, but Christ almighty wait until a player or manager goes through a bad spell and see just how 'loyal' these same fans are to them. Lukaku's a young man who, right or wrong, is in a bizarre part of the business world which pushes enormous 'ambition' on players, primarily from hawkish agents. He was bought for a fee which many at the time felt was too high, and because of his goals and performances he will (probably) leave the club for about two times what we paid for him. That's great business for Everton and it's been made possible by his performances and goals. Yes, he's wrong to talk so much to the press about wanting away, no doubt, but at the same time some perspective from certain fans wouldn't go amiss either.

And here's the two of you.. while her blood is still warm.., going online to state that someone who yells Britain first and then kills someone who campaigns to remain in the EU, has nothing to do with the Leave camp out of fear that it might sway some doubters to vote remain.
 
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I guess this shows the Leave camp did the best scaremongering, being able to frighten someone so much that he goes out and kills a person with an opposite point of view to his. Although, it was always going to be someone from the Leave camp.. Their main demographic are the uneducated .. and what would someone from the Remain camp shout before stabbing Farage in the face? "Unity!'?
 
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To clarify: not all who want to Leave are uneducated, old, neo-nazi's, fascists, xenophobes, .. but if you are, you're probably in the Leave camp.

And here's the two of you.. while her blood is still warm.., going online to state that someone who yells Britain first and then kills someone who campaigns to remain in the EU, has nothing to do with the Leave camp out of fear that it might sway some doubters to vote remain.
 
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I guess this shows the Leave camp did the best scaremongering, being able to frighten someone so much that he goes out and kills a person with an opposite point of view to his. Although, it was always going to be someone from the Leave camp.. Their main demographic are the uneducated .. and what would someone from the Remain camp shout before stabbing Farage in the face? "Unity!'?
 
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To clarify: not all who want to Leave are uneducated, old, neo-nazi's, fascists, xenophobes, .. but if you are, you're probably in the Leave camp.

Not transfer rumors damn it. Anything about fucking Belgium.
 
Jean Claude Van Damme, Audrey Hepburn, Hercule Poirot, Plastic Bertrand, some horses taking a shit in a town plaza in Bruges, the list is endless.
 
Damn well probaby not even Belgian. About as much substance there as your claim to being a true supporter of Everton Football Club. Did yourself no favors again during the last match day event.
 
To prevent this degenerating into some free for all, say again, this player in question could be a worthwhile purchase or someone to look into, but trying to keep calm now