Bailey

14 hours ago, c1982 said:

One will cost £30m and the other is a potential loan - downgrade maybe but at least there’s a plan B, C or D.

Its not a good plan B,C or D though!

11 hours ago, Goodison Glory said:

You believe that is a likely option then?

I think he has played a lot of games in pre-season for someone who isn't expected to be here next season.

10 hours ago, Gwlad said:

Thing that worries me is the Holgates, Grays and Simms who move on will go out and perform for the new clubs. 

I am sure Gray will do what he usually does and start like a house on fire then decline rapidly.

I don't think there is much doubt that Holgate is not good enough.

Hopefully Simms does go out and make a good career for himself at the higher levels he is still very raw for his age and needs a lot more time to develop into the player we need now.

Thats a massive downgrade!

https://news.italy24.press/sports/740833.html

Interesting account of the game!

Shame we didnt sell him when his value was highest! It was only ever going down after that first season!

Maupay / Dobbin partnership off and running... watch out Fulham

Myers confirmed medical next couple of days and in time for the game against Sporting at the weekend.

Seems to fit with what I have seen of him in the videos. He is going to be raw and a lot will depend on how well he is coached by Dyche etc however he looks the right type of player.

3 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

Last ball as a batter? Six.

Last ball as a bowler? The winning wicket.

Rest easy, Broady.

Some way to end your career

At least we have Danjuma in the squad. I think he will be best from the left.

3 hours ago, c1982 said:

Adams holds the ball up, harries and wins flick on… different player to Danjuma and Cannon. Wieghorst may be big but he can’t hold up and bully like Adams and DCL. Adams isn’t as good but offers many qualities we miss when Dom is out.

I am with you on this. Basically Adams is a better version of shit, which means that as a team, we will be less shit. 

This came out of the blue! 

6 hours ago, Shukes said:

I think we need a creative central player. 
I would class Danjuma more of a direct player than a creative player. 
For all of the potential that Onana has, I think he is a long term replacement for Gana. He will be the player that breaks up play and links up.

We still need that central figure who dictates play for me. Could that be Garner?

I think we certainly need a lot more technical players in midfield and if one has a bit of vision it would be welcome! 

I agree about Onana. He could be a genuine box-to-box player. He can do the defensive work of a Gana and get forward and create problems in the opposition box whether that be from his passing or breaking forward. He just needs lots of refining yet.

Maybe Garner could do that. I am not sure how high his ceiling is. I see him as a Ward-Prowse type who has a solid all round game and excellent technique that will fall short of the highest level. He might make it to a Barry level of quality but thats a way off yet. He might need a bit more of a physical presence about him. I am looking forward to seeing how he does develop and where he ends up because he showed in the Championship that he can contribute by way of goals and assists.

I watched both the "Summer Series" games today and it does worry me a little as the four teams I watched looked a lot sharper and more organised than we have.

Chelsea and Villa were the standouts. Chelsea look really good. They were a really young team and they were on it. James looks like he needs more time and they will have issues in the GK department too. I also think they could do with a genuine DM but they have so much quality in every other position.

Villa are playing football like they are a big club. They dominated the game and whilst they should have created more chances, I felt like it was a bit of rustiness rather than poor players. Pau Torres playing in a left back/ centre back position looked a possible avenue to exploit as I dont think he has the agility for the position (if he plays there in the season). 

Whilst I think they look sharp, Fulham and Brentford were disappointing. Fulham was obvious, they are lacklustre up front and whilst Bassey looked a good signing, they are bad at the back and shipped chances. They were one of the worst defensive sided last season too. They could be in trouble. 

Some might look at Brentford and think a 3-3 draw with Villa couldnt have been that bad but the first was a pen, the second was a screamer and the third was caused by a screamer that hit the bar. They wont do that every week. Brentford are a funny side because they often look crap and pop up with wins and draws you don't expect but Toney being out for so long is a huge miss and I think they could struggle to counter attack as well as they used to. Flekken looked a bit crap so if Raya goes, that would look to be a big downgrade too. I thought they looked very hollow in CM and they could struggle against dynamic teams.

23 minutes ago, Shukes said:

I have just as much idea as yourself Palf. 
Im hoping it’s another forward.

Would love to see a forward and a creative mid. But I think that is living in Barbie land.

I would like it to be Gnonto and a goalscorer. Wouldn’t mind is taking a chance on that young kid in one of the other threads.

Does Danjuma not fit that profile for you or do you think we need another creative player on top of him?

1 hour ago, Palfy said:

I have no issues with Dyche per say but I don’t see the change of tactics or the way we play being changed, what I’ve seen so far is the same as we played last season, which is great if we have DCL is fit for the majority of games, and I have no doubt he has targeted players to cover the DCL role if the worst is to happen. My concern being players that they’ve targeted aren’t interested in coming here and why Dyche can’t convince them and their agents we are a good place to come to especially with the new stadium around the corner giving us a better financial clout and a better profile. If there is a chance that these players see the way we play and aren’t convinced with Dyche’s vision how do things improve if we can’t convince the players we need to sign up to Dyche’s vision, personally I see that as valid argument and one that might be easier to change if it comes to that. 

I think there are a lot of reasons why targeted players might not come here.

I personally don't think the stadium would be too much of a pull until we are actually in it and playing Premier League football inside it. 

It seems like we have finally regained some control of the purse strings so we aren't just paying silly money to players who don't warrant it. Secondly, we aren't an attractive proposition. We have had two season fighting relegation and there is the turmoil regarding the ownership/management of the club. Thirdly, there has to be a slight question mark over whether players in certain positions would benefit from being at a different club, for example wide players who maybe don't want to have to track back so much, or central strikers who can play in an attacking team such as the comparison with Atalanta vs Everton for El Bilal Toure. If that is the case though, we probably don't really want them after all. We don't need another Kean on our hands who thinks they are too good to do the donkey work.

I do also think it would be a little naive to not think that there is a bit of a stigma around Dyche's style of football which may put some players off but I would rather have a manager that knows how he wants certain players to play and gets them to be effective compared to someone like Lampard who could talk a good game, sign them up and not have a clue what to do when they arrived.

1 hour ago, Fosse Captain said:

Pre season is about getting sharp, matchday helps, but for sure it's a training session mentality.

Personally I thought we were (overall) solid at the back yesterday, which last seasons stats also prove.
We just offer zero attacking threat, and we all know that.
Danjuma looked like he'd only trained for a day, so cant be faulted. Dobbin was ok in flashes. 
Biggest downsides were Keane, Maupay and Iwobi for me.

New season, its all a bit 'meh'. We will play deep and be hard to break down. But the flip side is we have no outlet and will get the feeling you can only defend for your lives for so much in a game.
Wins will be by a single goal. 
 

Somehow score 10 more goals a season and that will pull us into the mid table abyss of mediocrity as will be worth another 9-12 points. 

Excited?? No

But not doom and gloom ......... yet 

  

Just to add a little context to this using xG and xGA

Under Lampard we were the 17th worst attack and 2nd worst defence over that time period.

Under Dyche we were the 7th best attack (!?) and the 4th worst defence over his time period. Despite playing 2 games less in his spell, Dyche out "chanced" Lampard by over 8 xG. In terms of chances, we created more than Villa over that same time period, however they outperformed that metric by taking their chances, whilst we had Maupay. 

Whilst our defensive play improved, I am still concerned by it and what I have seen from Tarkowski in particular so far is very worrying. I really hope it is just the hard sessions taking their toll on him and nothing more.

1 hour ago, Shukes said:

I think you’re actually supportive by my argument to be fair. You are right about the Onana ball, it was good football not just from Onana, but from the other players. Possibly support big my point that Dyche isn’t just a long ball coach. 
 

I’ve watched the Gana ball a few times, and to be fair… I was a pretty decent players and still can play a bit. So it may just look simpler to me as I honestly think it’s the type of ball a forward should thrive off.

End of the day we will see how Dyche wants to play, by the players that we are trying to buy. If he goes for a target man like Dom then he wants to concentrate on that style. If he goes for players who play a different style…. Then he is trying the options style. 
 

The club will dictate it, not us. 
 

I do agree with Matt though, friendlies are glorified training sessions. Always have been and always will.

I agree in that I don't think Dyche is a long ball coach either but we also aren't going to play out from the back under pressure because we don't have the quality to do it. The ball has to go forward one way and I think we have seen enough last season to expect that it will go forward quite directly and whoever that forward is, will have to do a fair amount of chasing. If that forward doesn't fit that profile, the ball will come back more often, we will be under more defensive pressure and we will lose more games. 

If you have access to the Gana/Maupay clip can you send it to me or let me know where it is and I will have another look as I am only going off the impression I got during the game. 

29 minutes ago, Matt said:

Not saying it doesn't serve an important purpose, but it's all about fitness rather than sharpness. Sharpness will be focused on more in the training ground with particular exercises. 

Im on my hols for my 40th so trying to be positive. None of these games actually matter and the window isn't closed. There's nothing to worry about.

Yet...

Put it this way, I am certainly less worried about us than I was under Lampard but at the same time, I was hoping to see some general improvements compared to last season. The latter may come yet and I am sure we will see a couple more new faces too. 

Enjoy your holiday!

10 minutes ago, Palfy said:

And also what we have to take into consideration is the standard of team we are playing, so I expect us to be creating chances and playing more on the front foot in areas of the pitch in the last third, when we play in the league we are going to potentially be pushed back more in our own half which was the case last season, so the need for a focal player like DCL going to be required because we will see a lot more long balls that needs someone to dual for in the air or chase down in the channels. Yes we will play closer control football from defence to attack and I’m sure Danjuma will be a real plus when we go through the gears in that way, but if DCL is injured who do we to play the long ball to when we have no other option than to play it, and who do we have who can attack the ball in the air when crosses are pumped in from our wingers, and both of these scenarios will be happening on a regular basis during games. 

This is exactly my concern. 

The biggest difference between Maupay and Dom last season wasn't finishing. It was getting the team from our own 18 yard box up the pitch. We know from Dyche's own words that he expects a lot from his wingers defensively so if we are up against a team that can pin us back, which there are more and more technically excellent sides these days, then how do we release that pressure and put the other side on the back foot and create doubt as to how often and openly they can come forward.

The obvious example is the Brighton game. Dom was fantastic in that game and he was a real spearhead for our attack. He battled heard, won lots of duels and he scared the Brighton defence that was pressing high with his ability to run in behind and win the ball with his strength. When Gray played up front he had some joy because of his pace and ability on the ball. If the ball was decent and he got there first, he could do something with it, at least win a foul. When he was crowded out or the ball wasn't good enough for him, which lets face it is more common than not, he struggled. 

I am not sure whether Danjuma has actually been bought to play up top or from a wide position. I imagine it is predominately the latter but to be a better back-up than what we have, or maybe to provide a different option. From what I have seen, he looks best playing from the left and cutting inside (i.e. McNeil). He looks really good on the counter attack in space and he will definitely offer a threat in behind. I am not sure how many duels he is going to win where the ball isn't perfectly into feet. He certainly didn't show a lot of ability with his back to goal in that half against Stoke but it is clearly very early days and I won't hold that half against him! I would liken him to Demarai Gray, just with a more reliable end product.

5 minutes ago, Shukes said:

Don’t agree at all.

Im capable enough to control that ball from Gana. That was a terrible touch.

The best creative football all pre season was before yesterdays match. We created much more chances in all of the other matches than yesterday.

Onana’s ball is played right in behind a defender. Not an easy ball on any regards. Had to be inch perfect, and it was.

Me and you do look at the game differently Bails. You are always going to look for the negatives, while I will always look for the positives. Is either way right or wrong? Probably a bit of both. 
 

I don’t confuse the need for a back up at all. I just think we need a different option. Dom isn’t a player that can break a defence with a trick or a mazy run. I want an option to do that. If we come against a team that are dealing with Dom easy… then bringing Dom off and another Dom on is playing into the oppositions hands. Being able to bring Dom off and put on a different style is changing a plan that isn’t working.

I just think you and Palf aren’t giving Dyche enough credit if I’m honest. I actually think he is having a say in our targets and wants to find different ways to play. I dont think he is this one dimensional manager he is being made out to be.

But you know what… time will be the judge here.

Agree to disagree about the Gana ball but it certainly wasn't as easy as you make it out to be. I'm not disputing the quality of the Onana ball, it was a great ball, I am just looking at how it became possible. It took three people, the movement of Maupay, the run of Dobbin and the ball from Onana, supporting my earlier point about how the former two worked quite well together. 

We created more chances in the earlier matches because they were against worse teams! Bolton, were also very open which is exactly why I said it would be very different against Stoke, which it was!

I don't really know where positivity/negativity sits in these posts, but I think the best way of us not being in the same position next year is to have someone up front that plays to the way Dyche wants us to play. If Dom could stay fit, I would agree with you about the next type of player we need, but that has to be a massive doubt. That is where me and Palfy sit (I think, never know with him! :P) 

And FWIW I have no issues with Dyche, I just think he is doing what he needs to do with this bunch of players. I don't agree with Palfy there. 

1 hour ago, Matt said:

Not picking on you specifically, but I don't remember a preseason where we weren't half-arsed and shite against "lesser" opposition, even when we were challenging for Europe.

These are glorified training sessions and the players will be playing accordingly because the games don't matter and won't want to risk injury. As soon as we get competitive games and they still look like that, then I'll worry around February again.

Until then, these are exercise sessions and the window still has a while until its shut. We've been pipped by more attractive clubs but the fact we've had confirmed interest in the likes of Toure, tells me we've got money for 1 big signing and it's going to be a forward. 

It's not all dire, lads. In fact unbeaten in preseason and 2 players in for buttons is actually quite positive. Or at least a lot more positive that I expected

I think that in the modern game, pre-season is more important than ever. Players come back far fitter than they ever used to. They do more ball work than they ever used to. Pre-season is just about getting back that match sharpness, which is hard to regulate in these type of games anyway and the other part of it is trying and tweaking new tactics and ideas. I thought both teams looked pretty sharp in the first 20 minutes of the Bolton game (which Bolton carried on for the full 45 mins), whereas yesterday we were well off the pace, almost throughout. 

I only really remember one season recently where we looked shite in pre-season then turned the taps on in the first game of the week and started well. That was under a certain Carlo Ancellotti season, with the introduction of a certain James Rodriguez, but look how that ended up as well. 

The best pre-season I remember (Martinez - 1st season) ended in our best points finish. 

I will say though that this next game is somewhat the litmus test. A decent side at home in the last game before the season starts. If the players aren't sharp and the tactics aren't pretty much nailed down for that game it will be a very bumpy ride again. We don't have the luxury of being able to start slow. A lot is being made of our impotent attack but we have also allowed some quite good chances at the other end, against very average players and teams. If we do that against teams with the quality of Sporting, we will concede.