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I don't hold Martinez responsible for this today. We go 2-0 up and they get one back and the players went to bits (as per) and lost their fucking minds and let them get the equaliser straight away. There was no time for Martinez to influence things to prevent that. That is all on our players being weak mentally and falling apart.
 
The changes Marrtinez did make made a difference and helped us get a foothold in the game again. Indeed one of those subs set up our third fucking goal!
 
Then the ref and linesman fucked us over for the equaliser.
 
I've been one who is losing patience with Martinez but to blame him for today is total bullshit.

WHY DID THE WHISTLE NOT BLOW?

We'd be further up the league with Mirallas in the team. It been outrageous how he's been left out.

I've always maintained this is a 5 year plan. We've had the gung-ho first year, 2nd year trying to be more measured (which failed, bring with it it's own lessons), this season we've abolished the boring nonsense of last season and I imagine this season we'll continue to entertain and frustrate with results. With some of the talent we've accumulated, and if we can keep them, we're in for one hell of a season next year and future after that

After 4-5 years there will be no re-sale for Berahino. He will refuse to play, cause unrest and then run his contract down.
 
Do not want any players with that attitude.
 
Also, when Berahino is 26 he will be nowhere near the player Yarmolenko is now.

Ha, I know you don't rate McCarthy but I think all those who 'get' what McCarthy does will be excited by the prospect of a McCarthy - Besic duo. I think it will be awesome, I really do. I don't think many would get through that much effort and determination. Be like trying to run through a brick wall....only to find its brick covered 12" steel plate!!! 
And just to EDIT: I never in my life thought I'd get so excited about having 2 players like this in the team. Never. But makes me think of Joe Parkinson, John Ebrell and Barry Horne. 2 for the price of 3!!!

I'll just stick to my guns...this team needs Besic.
 
Every single person in this forum had said openly that this team needs to be more aggressive. That we are 'too nice'. Everybody. No doubt it's been our downfall.
 
And here we have the answer. I wouldn't change a single thing about Besic other than give him more experience...but only game time and age will do that.
 
Ok, he'll fuck up occasionally...the chewing gum thing was just funnily daft and embarrassing . He'll probably get sent off at some point. But we need that sort of player. The floor thumping, the swearing...its the make up of a player we miss. A Dog of War.
 
Roy Keane was just an enforcer. I can't remember ever seeing Keane chase back and flick the ball over his and his opponents head? Great player to have in your team, Keane, no doubt. But talk about volatile.
 
This isn't about being right or wrong, or arguing for the sake of arguing...its just what makes sense.

Just comes across as you searching for a new way to criticise him after he nuked your view that we don't play well when he plays.
 
Let's take a look at a few things -
 
How many times has he been sent off for us? Zero isn't it?
 
He was on the end of a nasty challenge against City (it may have been Spurs but I'm not sure), and he just got up and shrugged it off.
 
He marked Lionel Messi out of a game.
 
He did the same to Yaya Toure and David Silva.
 
He has an excellent range of passing - he can play short and long with ease.
 
He chased Yaya Toure half the length of the pitch and then timed his challenge perfectly to win the ball back.
 
He's got bags of energy.
 
He's capable of driving runs.
 
Yes he makes mistakes, and will continue to do so for some time yet, but to label him as a hot head and a headless chicken is a huge exaggeration imo.

MOTD Lawrenson calls Pienaar "Penis". Me and Josh crying with laughter.
 
Classic moment. Has to go viral.
 
https://www.facebook.com/1391085731210208/videos/1546613665657413/

Apparently if we throw Howard in the asking price goes up to £20m

What I'd give to be able to transfer Ozzies vision and nous into Barkley.

Agree 100%. We can't judge him on last night alone. He's looked mostly decent in the few games he's had, he's gaining experience and looking more confident and dominant with each game, and I'd like to see him get a run of 5-10 games so we can get a better overall picture of what he has to offer. The defence certainly look more confident in him with each passing game.

The team has been produced very inconsistent performances this year, from the victories at Southampton and against Chelsea to poor games against Bournemouth and Stoke.
 
Part of the reason is a defense that is under performing, I think as we have two young center backs, one of whom is playing his first season in the premier league. They miss Jags experience. They are learning and will get better. A poor season from Howard has I think undermined the defense. We looked so much better with Rubles.
 
I think our midfield looks allot better with the dynamism of Cleverley, Besic and Barkley, with Dela playing almost as a free winger switching flanks. This has not been available much due to injury.
 
Lukaku has been a revelation.
 
I guess what I am saying is that a side evolves as the season progresses, in the last 2 games we have hit on a very dynamic side that defends allot better. If we can continue in this vain we can really put a run together and climb the table. I think Martinez is building a real squad of youth and quality and some of the signings we have made look to a bright future.
 
If we can get a new keeper, Yarmolenko or equivalent and a new right back we can have a real force.
 
I trust Martinez, and the team.

We are seriously a goalkeeper a playmaker and another forward short of title contenders I genuinely believe that.

i am still of the opinion that Martinez can develop the Everton squad into regular top 5 contenders with a little bit more money and with a little bit more courage from his side.
He needs to develop with the squad and learn from his mistakes as well -
i would like to see him being more adventurous with his substitutions and his strategic changes should be more pro-active than reactive.
His loyalty to some of the older players must not cloud his judgement if he wants to be seen as progressive.
Yes we bossed large parts of last nights game against a champion's league side and that was good to see - the real test will come in 3 weeks time with the return match.
He needs to get rid of the dead wood in the squad and find us a few more young guns with high ambitions and no fear in their hearts and use them from the bench

Maybe we should take a step back a moment and not just react to this game or that game. Knee-jerk reactions never lead to wise decisions.
 
1) We're building a very strong young team for the future. Can you think of any other team that is so well stocked with young talent? In a year or two's time, we're going to look back with delight at some of the current transfer dealings. And these young players could be together for a decade. Just think of that.
 
2) We're developing talent by offering them the freedom to make mistakes. As others have posted in another thread, do we honestly believe that David Moyes, or many other managers, would allow Stones to do something that costs us a game? They'd have received a tongue-lashing, not encouragement. Long-term view is so much more important that short-term. Every one of us learns the most by making mistakes - and having our peers support us during those times.
 
3) Another part of developing young players is allowing them to play alongside older, experienced players. Stones is learning from Jagielka. McCarthy and Besic are learning from Barry. Yes, Lukaku is learning from Kone. This is a team in transition.
 
4) We're also allowing young talent to play in the lower leagues. That didn't happen previously to anywhere near the same extent. And this provides us with visibility, and maybe first dibs, to potential diamonds in the rough at those clubs.
 
5) We have a great working relationship with Barcelona. Would we have secured the signing of Deulofeu with any other manager? And I can see this beginning to happen with other European clubs. (Just look at the praise heaped on Grasshopper by Martinez for their "professional dealings.")
 
IMO, we should be looking more at the long-term, less at the short-term. Do we really want to throw all these benefits aside in a quest for some sort of quick fix? Not at all! Martinez' direction is long-term as much as it is short-term. This is what it takes to build a legacy. And a little patience.

It all sounds very logical Steve. But you're missing the key component.
 
Can we keep all these young players by finishing 11th for 3 seasons on the trot? Highly doubtful. To keep them we need to be up there competing.

That's probably more of a promising sign for Roberto because the people who comment on Facebook and like other people's comments are quite often complete numpties, to put it politely. I wouldn't make a judgement based on what you see on Facebook about how much of the fan base are still on his side. The atmosphere at Goodison has been tetchy lately but that's nothing new.
 
The fans need to sod off with having a go at our own players in the middle of a match though. Fair enough if someone's wandering around scratching their balls but if it's Howard trying (even if he's being shit) to catch a cross or a 21 year old lad trying to follow the manager's tactics just a little bit too much to the letter, it's not exactly going to help having the crowd on their back.
 
As for the "top 4 vs a cup" comments, the actual quote I've seen is that the club have a better chance of keeping your Lukakus and Stones' if we finish in the top 4 than if we win the League Cup, and anyone who disagrees with that needs their head checking because all these players seem to care about these days is moving to a Champions League side so that they can play in 4-6 underwhelming ties against FC Basel, Ludogorets and the occasional Barcelona or Bayern Munich each season.

seriously enough with all the negative stuff. it's completely ridiculous. Rom is untouchable at the moment and he continues to work incredibly hard for the team. Could not ask for more out of a center forward.

I got that inside outside box thing thrown at me last season...and was able to show, through actual effort in research, that a vast majority came inside the box. I'm not doing it again. Go back through the pages.
 
Look, for Christ's sake, can't we all just end this? He had an off season. Simple as that. For fucks sake, who really cares now? He's shot hot this season.
 
The title of the thread had been changed. It turned into a load of bollocks last year when he was shit. I stopped reading. It's still a load of bollocks now, and he's doing brilliantly. Sums up the mindset of the modern Evertonian brilliantly.
 
Lukaku...keep going. You're a credit.
 
I'm out.

I don't think anybody is singing the praises of the team and singling Lukaku out. Not from what I've read anyway. Although I have missed out 3,485 pages of this topic.
 
But take Lukaku on his own...you can use stats (shots, conversion rates etc) or his own words if you like, he had an off season. Could be many reasons for that.
 
This is him in August...
 
When I signed for Everton permanently my father was very ill and I was not in a good place because of that. My father has always been a big influence in my life. Whenever I have a bit of time off I go home and stay with my parents as much as I can. I am alone here and when my father was ill it was very difficult for me. The club knew about the situation and that I was going home all the time to see if he was all right.
 
When he was better I started to play well in December, although I also started the season with a few injuries and there were games when I didnt have to play but I wanted to play to help the team. I had four injections in my foot before the Arsenal and Chelsea games. Then my friend Junior [Malanda] died as well [the 20-year-old Wolfsburg midfielder was killed in a car crash in January]. He was very close to me and my family and I really wasnt good at that time.
 
Personally last year was my most difficult year. Its true for a footballer that if your life is good off the pitch, you can give that 20% more but for me, at my young age, I discovered there are some things you dont know how to handle. People associate the footballer with the glamour but we have a life as well. For me family has always been more important than football. The most important thing for me is that my parents and my brother are fine. That is the first thing on my mind when I wake up every day.
 
Then more words from him a few weeks ago...
 
I knew if I could improve the percentage of balls that I lose, hold up the play and lay it off better, I would get more chances, says the 22-year-old Belgian. I realised I could help the team better if I did more with the balls I was getting.
 
So, in the summer when I was back in Belgium, Id just kick the ball against the wall, over and over. Id going training with my best friend (Antwerp goalkeeper) Nicaise Kudimbana. Wed do an hour and a half in the morning and the same in the afternoon because the sun was still shining.
 
I had a programme from Everton, too, so Id work on that in the gym do some technical stuff, go home and rest, pick up Nicaise and go again. By the time pre-season started I was ready to go and Roberto (Martinez) knew I was ready to do the job.
 
The lad had a tough season. He's gone away, took ownership of his downfalls, took responsibly for how he performed, looked for answers, listened to advice, read Toffeetalk, and is now a much better player and probably a better person too. He alone deserves a lot of credit. No one else.

Had a read of other forums and news soruces - twitter etc and some fans really do need a slap.
 
The victim last night of "I am looking to see everything he doesn't do well" was Osman.... seriously. I thought aside from one or two passes that showed rust he was a very mature head on the pitch. When city were upping the tempo he slowed it down, he had us doing some triangles to take the edge off their play.
 
Sure he never dribbled past 4 men, did any defence splitting passes but he showed a clamness about him that made you realise what a good footballer he is. You can bet Martinez will keep him as a coach - thinking footballer.

Agree 100%. We can't judge him on last night alone. He's looked mostly decent in the few games he's had, he's gaining experience and looking more confident and dominant with each game, and I'd like to see him get a run of 5-10 games so we can get a better overall picture of what he has to offer. The defence certainly look more confident in him with each passing game.

Agree 100%. We can't judge him on last night alone. He's looked mostly decent in the few games he's had, he's gaining experience and looking more confident and dominant with each game, and I'd like to see him get a run of 5-10 games so we can get a better overall picture of what he has to offer. The defence certainly look more confident in him with each passing game.

He doesn't have a chance of showing if he can make a few saves like that throughout a season if he isn't given a season.