Bafana Blue Posted May 26, 2006 Report Share Posted May 26, 2006 Andy Johnson is a good striker and his performances in the 2004/05 season were very impressive but he is not worth 8.5 million. One good season does not make a player and he hardlyl set the Coca Cola championship alight last season. Marcus Stewart also had 1 great season in the premiership and then faded away very quickly, can you imagine having spent 8.5 million on him. We all want Everton to progress as a club and to do that we need to improve the quality of players in our squad but spending the whole transfer budget on an average striker will not achieve anything!! If the asking price was 4 million I would say thats good value for money but like so many English players Johnson is over-rated and over-priced!! Look at the performance of The England B side last night against Belarus! Anyone of the English frontline would probarbly cost more than the entire Belarus squad yet there was little if any difference in ability. Every season we seem to chase after over priced English players and it seems most people on this website are in favour of it. How many of us would bid 5 million for Sean Davis today or the other inflated bids we have been encouraging the Board to chase after in recent seasons for English players who do not even represent their country. The reality is that we need to look overseas for quality players who are available for far less than their British equivalents. Arteta, Cahill, Yobo and Valente are all bargains at what we paid for them as oppossed to the likes of Wright, Davies, Naysmith who have been a total waste of money. Bottom line is English players are totally over-priced and Scottish, Welsh and Irish players (with the odd exception) are not good enough as proven by their inability to qualify for major tournaments. I can assure you than Benni McCarthy and John Utaka (the nigerian international at Rennes) would be far better value for money than Johnson!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldfishMemory Posted May 26, 2006 Report Share Posted May 26, 2006 Andy Johnson is a good striker and his performances in the 2004/05 season were very impressive but he is not worth 8.5 million. One good season does not make a player and he hardlyl set the Coca Cola championship alight last season. Marcus Stewart also had 1 great season in the premiership and then faded away very quickly, can you imagine having spent 8.5 million on him. We all want Everton to progress as a club and to do that we need to improve the quality of players in our squad but spending the whole transfer budget on an average striker will not achieve anything!! If the asking price was 4 million I would say thats good value for money but like so many English players Johnson is over-rated and over-priced!! Look at the performance of The England B side last night against Belarus! Anyone of the English frontline would probarbly cost more than the entire Belarus squad yet there was little if any difference in ability. Every season we seem to chase after over priced English players and it seems most people on this website are in favour of it. How many of us would bid 5 million for Sean Davis today or the other inflated bids we have been encouraging the Board to chase after in recent seasons for English players who do not even represent their country. The reality is that we need to look overseas for quality players who are available for far less than their British equivalents. Arteta, Cahill, Yobo and Valente are all bargains at what we paid for them as oppossed to the likes of Wright, Davies, Naysmith who have been a total waste of money. Bottom line is English players are totally over-priced and Scottish, Welsh and Irish players (with the odd exception) are not good enough as proven by their inability to qualify for major tournaments. I can assure you than Benni McCarthy and John Utaka (the nigerian international at Rennes) would be far better value for money than Johnson!!! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Benni McCarthy would be the worst flop ever IMO! Want to take chances on little known overseas players does Amokachi, Bakyoko Madar, Max-Moore (spellings sorry) mean anything to you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fozzie22 Posted May 26, 2006 Report Share Posted May 26, 2006 agreed fish,i dont see what the deal is mccarthy yardog tbh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bafana Blue Posted May 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2006 No-one is talking about taking chances on little known players. Benni McCarthy has scored 30 international goals and spendind 2-3 million on a player who has won the champions league, finished top scorer at an African Nations Cup, played and scored at a world cup, played in a successful Porto side etc etc is far better business than 8.5m for an average English striker. Not every foreign purchase will alwayd be a great success but the reality is Scottish, Irish, Welsh and the majority of English players do not have the technical ability to takt this club furhter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zed Posted May 26, 2006 Report Share Posted May 26, 2006 No having a go, but reading this thread made me laugh about foreign technical ability. Yes, if we are talking about italian. french or spanish maybe But are we say all forgien players are technically superiar to BRITISH PLAYERS Drogba = 24 MIL = TECHNICALLY SHITE = NOT WORTH A CARROT Thats my opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted May 26, 2006 Report Share Posted May 26, 2006 cant agree with you there Zed, Drogba is a great player, Chelsea dont play to his strenghts. and hasnt he scored like 29goals in 59league games? and British players not technically good enough? you been on the crack pipe lad? Rooney, Gerrard, Lampard, Terry, Ashley Cole, Joe Cole, Beckham, Ferdinand? are these players not "technically" good enough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted May 26, 2006 Report Share Posted May 26, 2006 Drogba has the worst first touch i have seen he is shite, Chelsea should be sending him to Lyon with a smile on their faces. Agreed about Benni McCarthy hes shite, remind me how many goals did he score this season? Wasnt it something like 3? He3s not exactly young either so wed be faced with the same problem we are now in a couple of years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zed Posted May 26, 2006 Report Share Posted May 26, 2006 cant agree with you there Zed, Drogba is a great player, Chelsea dont play to his strenghts. and hasnt he scored like 29goals in 59league games?and British players not technically good enough? you been on the crack pipe lad? Rooney, Gerrard, Lampard, Terry, Ashley Cole, Joe Cole, Beckham, Ferdinand? are these players not "technically" good enough? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I was trying to stick up for the british players, we have this myth that all foreign player are technically superior, but using drogshit as an example he couldnt trap a bag of cement at times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
java2001e Posted May 26, 2006 Report Share Posted May 26, 2006 aj scored 15 goals for palace last season. thats not bad. he's been a consistent high scorer every season. 8mill is a lot but if thats the going rate thats what youve gotta pay and theres not a lot of point in bellyaching about it. i dont know if weve got the cash or not but if we havent all we can affords are journeymen and that means we'll be lucky to win anything. money talks. and thats that. if you dont have the cash to invest then you stay a mid table team at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raccyboy Posted May 26, 2006 Report Share Posted May 26, 2006 and British players not technically good enough? you been on the crack pipe lad?Rooney, Gerrard, Lampard, Terry, Ashley Cole, Joe Cole, Beckham, Ferdinand? are these players not "technically" good enough? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> you're not comparing apples with apples here --- for a club like Everton it's no good even mentioning the above players due to their price tags. what bafana blue seems to be saying is for players in a similar price range (about 2-5mn) the quality of british player you get for your money is far less than a similar priced european (or african) player, and this is very often true. you can point out all the cr*p foreigners that Everton managed to buy, but not every signing will be a success - bolton managed to find okocha and ben-haim, fulham found boa-morte and malbranque, and we found yobo, arteta and cahill.......... the underlying point that bafana makes is that there are too many overpriced, very mediocre british players who become high profile, get chased by everyone outside of the big 4, are signed for more than they're worth, and quickly get shown up........on this forum there's always huge noise being made about signing players like koumas or earnshaw, and moaning when we miss out because we weren't prepared to pay up........ for a club on a tight budget, we really need to look a bit harder for a few gems playing either in "smaller name" european, african or asian clubs to try and get decent value for money..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xsaint Posted May 26, 2006 Report Share Posted May 26, 2006 you're not comparing apples with apples here --- for a club like Everton it's no good even mentioning the above players due to their price tags. what bafana blue seems to be saying is for players in a similar price range (about 2-5mn) the quality of british player you get for your money is far less than a similar priced european (or african) player, and this is very often true. you can point out all the cr*p foreigners that Everton managed to buy, but not every signing will be a success - bolton managed to find okocha and ben-haim, fulham found boa-morte and malbranque, and we found yobo, arteta and cahill.......... the underlying point that bafana makes is that there are too many overpriced, very mediocre british players who become high profile, get chased by everyone outside of the big 4, are signed for more than they're worth, and quickly get shown up........on this forum there's always huge noise being made about signing players like koumas or earnshaw, and moaning when we miss out because we weren't prepared to pay up........ for a club on a tight budget, we really need to look a bit harder for a few gems playing either in "smaller name" european, african or asian clubs to try and get decent value for money..... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well said....impartial comment......would be nice if we can stop being emotional....stand on the grey line and evaluate our options.No point argueing for the sake of arguing without much sense if your argument.For once i see the above reply to be damn true and honest and impartial! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatboyquim Posted May 26, 2006 Report Share Posted May 26, 2006 (edited) Everton want AJ. AJ wants to go to Everton. What's the problem? Money that's the problem. On a day when Everton's CEO is talking bollocks about how much money Everton will have to bring the top players to Goodison, we are being beaten into 3rd place by Wigan and Bolton. Not Chelsea or Man Utd. Everton are playing a very dangerous game here. Hoping that AJ will hold out for his move to Everton. We are sure Simon Jordan will have a say about that. These two small Lancashire clubs are pushing the boat out to try and get their clubs into Europe next season, while the mighty Everton of the big five fame, sit and hope for a miracle. Edited May 26, 2006 by Fatboyquim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Posted May 26, 2006 Report Share Posted May 26, 2006 As I think Licker had mentioned, 7Mill for Crouch has set a precedent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted May 26, 2006 Report Share Posted May 26, 2006 Crouch has to have been one of the most over priced players, well there is Heskey for £8million and Drogshit for £24million Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraccerC Posted May 26, 2006 Report Share Posted May 26, 2006 couldnt agree more no way is he worth 8.5...there is better out there, and we shud take a risk on some1 for less..... and as for those sayin drogba is shit ... kiddin me? his scorin record aint bad and who had the most assists i nthe prem? drogba , so is he shit statistically obviously not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUE-TAC Posted May 26, 2006 Report Share Posted May 26, 2006 Well hows about this......if we get him for 8.5m, he's worth it bcos as blus we're behind our manager and let's face it if BT is £6m (no disrespect) then it's just the going rate (which i agree is datf). Let's imagine AJ has visited this site-all i want to hear is c'mon AJ, etc. in Other words, this ain't the time to be knocking someone who is virtually a blue. DO THE BIZ AJ-WE HAVE FAITH...20 GOALS AND YOU'RE A LEGEND SO PLS DO IT!!! And a message to those knocking him or us for going for him...do you have any better ideas? Ps, Benni Mac doesn't count cos he'd be sh1te!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fozzie22 Posted May 27, 2006 Report Share Posted May 27, 2006 As I think Licker had mentioned, 7Mill for Crouch has set a precedent. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted May 27, 2006 Report Share Posted May 27, 2006 This is a good take on it..from before we matched the offer. From IC Liverpool. "THE dearly departed Brian Labone was rarely at a loss for words. But I once saw him rendered speechless - after being told that Andrei Kanchelskis had asked for 24 hours to choose between Middlesbrough and Everton. The look of bewilderment and disbelief was genuine, as he shook his head and turned mutely away.. Perhaps it's humane that Labby isn't around to hear that the Blues could be outbid by Wigan for a footballer this week. Andy Johnson isn't worth £8.5m But a litre of petrol isn't worth 95p - you still grudgingly pay it because you have to get to work in the morning. If Andy Johnson can match the total he scored in his last Premiership campaign, £8.5m would seem a small price to pay. He could turn out to be a Tony Cottee, or he could turn out to be a Mickey Walsh. If he goes to Wigan we'll never know. And Brian Labone would turn in his grave." I still disagree with the point that he's not worth the money though. It's simple supply and demand...same as a bag of sugar or a BMW or a footballer, a thing (or person) is worth what someone is willing to pay so it's absurd to suggest he's not worth it because he demonstrably is! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn balor Posted May 27, 2006 Report Share Posted May 27, 2006 Let's face facts we need somebody to stick the ball away. Last season our goals for was shite and if we had somebody with pace and a knack of scoring we would have been in the top 6.If AJ comes we can expect another march into europe next year beacuse i feel we are only two players form being a very good side. The £28 million we are getting form Sky a year should allow us to spread the money over a year or two and allow us another two or three signings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraccerC Posted May 27, 2006 Report Share Posted May 27, 2006 is AJ gonna score many from long balls partnering beattie....highly doubt it.... we need creativity and mroe passing attacking play or he will almost definately flop and be a complete waste of money,..... do u have faith in moyes? im doubtful i lost mine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluepips Posted May 27, 2006 Report Share Posted May 27, 2006 I belive that ANDY Johnson is a great signing for the club, but as you say he is not worth 8.5 million pounds. On a personal note i am happy seeing him coming through the doors as we need a goal scorer urgently. But yes we are paying over th odds for a proven goalscorer. So lets hope he will bang the goals in next season, and for many years to come. I am very confident he will do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
java2001e Posted May 28, 2006 Report Share Posted May 28, 2006 I belive that ANDY Johnson is a great signing for the club, but as you say he is not worth 8.5 million pounds. you can't have it both ways! he can't be a great signing and too expensive! the market says HE IS worth 8.5mill. we may agree its a lot of money but thats the market valuation so THAT IS WHAT HE IS WORTH. can we afford him? can we not afford to buy the best available when they fall within our budget? we can't. we have to buy the best we can afford if w want to compete. if he can 15+ goals a season it will make the difference between being a mid table side or contenders for europe. in that case he will more than pay for himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raccyboy Posted May 28, 2006 Report Share Posted May 28, 2006 is AJ gonna score many from long balls partnering beattie....highly doubt it.... we need creativity and mroe passing attacking play or he will almost definately flop and be a complete waste of money,..... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think this hits the nail on the head --- I've also said before that while we do need another striker, we've also got to address the problem of supply to the front. I have never been much of a beattie fan, but I think he did pretty well last season given the dearth of supply he received. I think paying such a massive chunk on one striker could backfire if the concern raised by CraccerC is proven right..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueinvalencia Posted May 28, 2006 Report Share Posted May 28, 2006 You can just see the headline now .Everton STRIKER RULED OUT FOR SEASON WITH CRUCIATE INJURY AFTER STORMY FRIENDLY. Who would be a Blue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted May 28, 2006 Report Share Posted May 28, 2006 I think this hits the nail on the head --- I've also said before that while we do need another striker, we've also got to address the problem of supply to the front.I have never been much of a beattie fan, but I think he did pretty well last season given the dearth of supply he received. I think paying such a massive chunk on one striker could backfire if the concern raised by CraccerC is proven right..... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If theres no quality strikers to put the ball in the back of the net because of more creativity then whats the point, a quality striker should be first on the agenda to feed off Beatties knock downs and then bring creative midfielders in. We need to show potential midfield targets that we have the strikers to put there balls in the net and not show them that their creativity will be wasted due to lack of firepower Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldfishMemory Posted May 28, 2006 Report Share Posted May 28, 2006 I think this hits the nail on the head --- I've also said before that while we do need another striker, we've also got to address the problem of supply to the front.I have never been much of a beattie fan, but I think he did pretty well last season given the dearth of supply he received. I think paying such a massive chunk on one striker could backfire if the concern raised by CraccerC is proven right..... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think we make more chances from midfield now than we ever have there is just a lack of options to play the final ball too! Will AJ give us that? Yes plus he drops deep in the Rooney style picks the ball up and runs at defenders giving Beattie more of a chance to get into the box and find some space. I can see this partnership giving us 35 goals this season and if the pair of them can tie up the defenders then Cahill ariving late and Arteta / Leon from the edge of the box could give us another 20+ between then. I dont think Everton are far off fighting regularly for european football and i do think as long as we tie up 2 young centre halves (if that includes yobbo or not) we will have a good season and the doubters will be proved wrong. If we finish in a european place next season that will be 5 years, 3 in top half and 2 in europe considering our past reccord thats not a bad 5 years at all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraccerC Posted May 28, 2006 Report Share Posted May 28, 2006 well my friend thinks cahill is likely to play deeper .... which wudnt suprise me... 2 yrs ago was his best coz he had the freedom, he had less this year and in a 4-4-2 hell have less further having to come back...and is cahill a good midfielder i dont think particularly... i like him but he scores goals, he doesnt tackle particularly well nor is he a good passer osman decent player but similar, for me hes a squad player tht u wud bring on in a decent team with 15/20 to go if u were looking for a goal, hes still too lightweight and gives it away cheaply at times i know i seem a pessimist but our midfield is in my opinion highly overrated by Everton fans.... the reason the long ball occurs so much is because of lack on midfield a ability and thats the difference between a good team and average team and a shite team. in an ideal midfield you would probably want a ball winner and a ball player in the center .... and we have arteta to play the passes but no1 to win it ... and no neville isnt good enough and no cahill cant do it, and no carsley will never be back to form ... so i think were lacking in midfield , we need some1 to win it or come deep when we have it to start off moves. and either side we arent good enough either it worries me how important arteta is because take him out and then whats left, theres no creativity and usually were awful... do u think other teams havent realised that too? surely theyll aim to take arteta out the game then what will we do? struggle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldfishMemory Posted May 28, 2006 Report Share Posted May 28, 2006 I dont remember watching Everton play long ball football for the last 2 seasons, last 10 to 15 with the big man up front yes but he's gone now! What Everton have done over the past season especially is play through the midfield and then spread it out wide where we play good one touch football in tight spaces and make space for a cross! I think the work we need to do to add to that is hitting the by line every now an then and stop spreading the play every time and start cutting through the middle and have some more long range shots. I'm not trying to get into an argument about this but can you justify your claims of long ball football over the past 2 years? Do you go the game? How old are you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted May 28, 2006 Report Share Posted May 28, 2006 im with the long range shot theory. i know its different quality, but garrard and lampard both hit so many shots from long range, if there on target its either a goal or the ball will be free in the box for forwards to attack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted May 28, 2006 Report Share Posted May 28, 2006 I dont remember watching Everton play long ball football for the last 2 seasons, last 10 to 15 with the big man up front yes but he's gone now! What Everton have done over the past season especially is play through the midfield and then spread it out wide where we play good one touch football in tight spaces and make space for a cross! I think the work we need to do to add to that is hitting the by line every now an then and stop spreading the play every time and start cutting through the middle and have some more long range shots. I'm not trying to get into an argument about this but can you justify your claims of long ball football over the past 2 years? Do you go the game? How old are you? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Agree with what you're saying, plus every team plays long ball at some point in the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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