Guest Nikica Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) there is only ashley cole i would rank above baines in the prem and it seems you agree...1 of your 5 is predominantly a right back...1 is retiring after an operation and hasn't played for a while...1 is young and unproven and the other is fiery and plays in a very gifted forward thinking team and doesn't get tested all that much at the back from what i see... baines had the most assists over 3/4 years second only to dani alves in terms of defenders..he can also take free kicks and corners and scores a few from open play...his defensive game has improved no end in the last couple of years..he's quick..immensely fit(first time he's missed games through injury just recently) and has amazing stamina i don't see why 25m is so ridiculous Well, my answer indicates who I think are the best in the world, that doesn't mean that I rate Baines higher than everyone else not on the list. In truth, I wouldn't say Baines is better than Jose Enrique, Patrice Evra (if he could find some form again) or Gael Clichy either. However, I wouldn't say he's worse either. Yeah, I added the caveat for Lahm. Marcelo plays in a very gifted team, yes, but part of why they're so good in attack is him - his overlapping runs are crucial to their play. I agree he's not great defensively, but these days full-backs seem to be more lauded for their attacking than defending prowess, particularly as holding midfielders tend to cover for their marauding runs. The role of the full-back is pretty attacking, but I do see your point. Abidal will probably retire, yes, but I meant when he was in his prime. Alba and Coentrao are both young yes, but they have immense potential. I like Baines a lot, believe me, and it isn't my intention to run him down. But think of it this way - Barcelona, the best team in the world (or second, depending on how you view it), are looking to buy Jordi Alba to replace Abidal. Do you really think they would buy Baines? I know you'll say if Baines was Spanish they'd be interested in him, but still... Baines is a very good player, but he's not recognised as one of the best in the world - correctly, in my view. He's just not at that level. Edited May 23, 2012 by Nikica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Yeah, that's a fair point (I'm not familiar with Everton's finances). I'm just saying that, under normal circumstances and in a non-inflated market, £25m would be too much for Baines. Extenuating circumstances such as Everton's alter all of the above of course. I'm simply talking about what I believe the player's true value to be. And I'm saying £15million wouldn't be a fee to snap their hands off for like you suggested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 what's he have to do to be at that level then? what has evra done in the last few years that is better than baines? what has jose enrique done to be better than baines? baines creates more goals in a poorer team than marcelo does in a wonderful team...potential is a different ball game to what they already have...coentrao and alba aren't at baines' level yet..they probably will be better but they haven't done enough to warrant being ahead of him and on a side not i never saw the big deal with abidal..just a big, powerful, quickish guy...his attacking wasn't great..his defending also left a lot to be desired every time i saw him...maxwell was far better than him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 And I'm saying £15million wouldn't be a fee to snap their hands off for like you suggested. Well, I think you're being optimistic if you expect more, unless it's Chelsea or Man City who buy him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) what's he have to do to be at that level then? what has evra done in the last few years that is better than baines? what has jose enrique done to be better than baines? baines creates more goals in a poorer team than marcelo does in a wonderful team...potential is a different ball game to what they already have...coentrao and alba aren't at baines' level yet..they probably will be better but they haven't done enough to warrant being ahead of him and on a side not i never saw the big deal with abidal..just a big, powerful, quickish guy...his attacking wasn't great..his defending also left a lot to be desired every time i saw him...maxwell was far better than him Maxwell better than Abidal? Come on. Abidal has been underrated his entire career. As for the rest of your post - bit of the blue tinted glasses I feel. I even said that I don't rate Enrique above Baines but now you are posting like I think he is... Nobody would seriously rate Baines as one of the world's best LBs, let's get real. Edited May 23, 2012 by Nikica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Well, I think you're being optimistic if you expect more, unless it's Chelsea or Man City who buy him. I never said I expected more, I said £15million wouldn't be a fee to snap their hands off for. And that's because we'd only have around £5million of that to replace him with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Well, I think you're being optimistic if you expect more, unless it's Chelsea or Man City who buy him. Glen Johnson went for £17.5.....Portsmouth were more desperate for money than we are if anything. Baines is better; ridiculous to say he should go for less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 I never said I expected more, I said £15million wouldn't be a fee to snap their hands off for. And that's because we'd only have around £5million of that to replace him with. Fair enough. As I said, I am not overly familiar with your circumstances financially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Glen Johnson went for £17.5.....Portsmouth were more desperate for money than we are if anything. Baines is better; ridiculous to say he should go for less. Yeah, but that's the typical example of a player's value being inflated. In this market Baines maybe should go for more - but his real value in a normal market wouldn't be more than £15m. If we go by ridiculous feels constantly, then every striker better than Andy Carrol should be being sold for £35 million. Some fees are anomalies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Fair enough. As I said, I am not overly familiar with your circumstances financially. Then you shouldn't really be commenting on something when you don't know all the facts . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Maxwell better than Abidal? Come on. Abidal has been underrated his entire career. As for the rest of your post - bit of the blue tinted glasses I feel. I even said that I don't rate Enrique above Baines but now you are posting like I think he is... Nobody would seriously rate Baines as one of the world's best LBs, let's get real. does that not say something? you don't rate baines above enrique or below him...ok i will change my question..what has enrique done to be on par with baines? and all i'm sayin is that baines isn't far off the best...maybe that's because there is a lack of world class lb's maybe not..but true nonetheless imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Then you shouldn't really be commenting on something when you don't know all the facts . I was giving my view on what Baines value is. Just because you need the money doesn't mean that other clubs have a duty to buy your players for more than they are worth. You ripped us off for Jelavic so why get on your high horse about what you deserve for Baines? If you are not going to sell Baines for a certain sum because you feel he's worth more to your team, that's your call. I'm just saying that other teams might not stick around while you drive the price up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 does that not say something? you don't rate baines above enrique or below him...ok i will change my question..what has enrique done to be on par with baines? and all i'm sayin is that baines isn't far off the best...maybe that's because there is a lack of world class lb's maybe not..but true nonetheless imo Okay, hold on a minute here lol...you are insinuating that because Abidal has been underrated, it must mean it's a case of no smoke without fire i.e. there's a reason he is underrated, which is because he isn't that great. THEN, in the next instance you are moaning because nobody rates Baines as world-class. Surely you would apply your own logic to Baines as you have Abidal? Nevertheless, there's a reason the word is underrated - and that's that some players should be rated more highly than they are. Abidal has a big reputation, but he should have been rated alongside the likes of Cole and Evra. He is by those who know him anyway - most French people rate Abidal above Evra and the Spanish rate him very highly as well. I rate Enrique and Baines on the same level because having watched them both play extensively, there's not much difference in quality. You're talking like Baines is Bixente Lizarazu here and it's ridiculous not to view him as world-class... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Liverpool fans arent impressed with Enrique, he's one season wonder with no pace. Ashley Cole is the best lb in the world, and 2 of the last 3 seasons Baines has performed better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) I was giving my view on what Baines value is. Just because you need the money doesn't mean that other clubs have a duty to buy your players for more than they are worth. You ripped us off for Jelavic so why get on your high horse about what you deserve for Baines? If you are not going to sell Baines for a certain sum because you feel he's worth more to your team, that's your call. I'm just saying that other teams might not stick around while you drive the price up. Once again I'll point this out for you, maybe you'll take some notice this time. I'm not saying we should expect more and I'm not on my high horse about what we deserve for Baines (I've made no mention of deserving anything). What I'm saying is that £15million is not a fee that we should snap United's hands off for like you said we should because of our situation. A situation you, yourself, have said you know nothing about. Teams don't have to hang around and bid what we'd want. Thats fine, I don't want them to. Edited May 23, 2012 by Romey 1878 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Liverpool fans arent impressed with Enrique, he's one season wonder with no pace. Ashley Cole is the best lb in the world, and 2 of the last 3 seasons Baines has performed better. I disagree that Cole is the best LB in the world, but that's irrelevant. Either way, your statement is inherently contradictory: how can Cole still be the best LB in the world if someone else (Baines) is performing better than him? Are we judging players on overall talent rather than form now? Might as well say Kaka is the third-best player in the world then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Once again I'll point this out for you, maybe you'll take some notice this time. I'm not saying we should expect more and I'm not on my high horse about what we deserve for Baines (I've made no mention of deserving anything). What I'm saying is that £15million is not a fee that we should snap United's hands off for like you said we should because of our situation. A situation you, yourself, have said you know nothing about. Teams don't have to hang around and bid what we'd want. Thats fine, I don't want them to. And I already said fair play on that, I'm not trying to dispute it, so why you had to jump in with the pompous attitude of me 'not knowing all the facts' I'm not sure... I gave my opinion on Baines true value, and apologised for the comment about 'biting their hands off for £15m'... You wouldn't accept £15m for Baines because you need more,not because he is worth more, fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 I disagree that Cole is the best LB in the world, but that's irrelevant. Either way, your statement is inherently contradictory: how can Cole still be the best LB in the world if someone else (Baines) is performing better than him? Are we judging players on overall talent rather than form now? Might as well say Kaka is the third-best player in the world then. Well form over the last year is a no contest, Cole by a mile. Of course you judge a player mainly on overall talent (which would include form). On your logic Yakubu is the 4th best striker in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Touchy little thing aren't you? I put a winking face because I was having a laugh when I said you didn't know all the facts. Turn that frown upside down, lighten up, it'll do you good. If you don't then people will think of you alongside Mr. Angry, Dalziel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Okay, hold on a minute here lol...you are insinuating that because Abidal has been underrated, it must mean it's a case of no smoke without fire i.e. there's a reason he is underrated, which is because he isn't that great. THEN, in the next instance you are moaning because nobody rates Baines as world-class. Surely you would apply your own logic to Baines as you have Abidal? Nevertheless, there's a reason the word is underrated - and that's that some players should be rated more highly than they are. Abidal has a big reputation, but he should have been rated alongside the likes of Cole and Evra. He is by those who know him anyway - most French people rate Abidal above Evra and the Spanish rate him very highly as well. I rate Enrique and Baines on the same level because having watched them both play extensively, there's not much difference in quality. You're talking like Baines is Bixente Lizarazu here and it's ridiculous not to view him as world-class... i wasn't sayin baines is world class i'm just sayin he isn't that far off them..you were sayin abidal is amongst the best in the world yet is underrated...i just rate baines higher than you seem to..you seem to have him stuck in the mid card of the premier league as for your comment about baines and alba and barcelona i reckon it is because he is spanish...utd are looking at baines is that so far off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoof_It_Nev Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Swap for Evra plus cash? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Touchy little thing aren't you? I put a winking face because I was having a laugh when I said you didn't know all the facts. Turn that frown upside down, lighten up, it'll do you good. If you don't then people will think of you alongside Mr. Angry, Dalziel. Nah, I'm generally not. I'm just finding this entire thread surreal and it is affecting my emotions. For instance, Pete's seriously trying to claim that Baines is one of the world's best LBs. Would anyone outside of Everton fans seriously agree with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 I disagree that Cole is the best LB in the world, but that's irrelevant. Either way, your statement is inherently contradictory: how can Cole still be the best LB in the world if someone else (Baines) is performing better than him? Are we judging players on overall talent rather than form now? Might as well say Kaka is the third-best player in the world then. you stuck abidal who hasn't played in god knows how long in the best in the world so if you can judge on talent and not form then pete can surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Nah, I'm generally not. I'm just finding this entire thread surreal and it is affecting my emotions. For instance, Pete's seriously trying to claim that Baines is one of the world's best LBs. Would anyone outside of Everton fans seriously agree with that? he's been voted the best left back in the best league in the world by his peers...and been commented about many times by managers and players...that alone surely puts him not far off.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Well form over the last year is a no contest, Cole by a mile. Of course you judge a player mainly on overall talent (which would include form). On your logic Yakubu is the 4th best striker in the league. It's not all about form. But the point is that a player can't be the best in the world if another player is performing better than him. That doesn't mean we arrange everyone in a hierarchy based on who is playing better. Of course Yakubu wouldn't be the fourth best striker in the PL. I realise what you are trying to say, you just worded it poorly. I'd say Marcelo has been the world's best LB over the last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Nah, I'm generally not. I'm just finding this entire thread surreal and it is affecting my emotions. For instance, Pete's seriously trying to claim that Baines is one of the world's best LBs. Would anyone outside of Everton fans seriously agree with that? Your problem is that you seem to have the attitude that you may not always be right but you're never wrong. You said I was being pompous before but that's how you come across with the majority of your posts. Like you know more than any one else. Whether that's how you intend to be I don't know, but that's how you come across. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 It's not all about form. But the point is that a player can't be the best in the world if another player is performing better than him. That doesn't mean we arrange everyone in a hierarchy based on who is playing better. Of course Yakubu wouldn't be the fourth best striker in the PL. I realise what you are trying to say, you just worded it poorly. I'd say Marcelo has been the world's best LB over the last year. that contradicts itself in my mind...it's like you're saying to be the best you have to play 10/10 every week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 i wasn't sayin baines is world class i'm just sayin he isn't that far off them..you were sayin abidal is amongst the best in the world yet is underrated...i just rate baines higher than you seem to..you seem to have him stuck in the mid card of the premier league as for your comment about baines and alba and barcelona i reckon it is because he is spanish...utd are looking at baines is that so far off? United are nowhere near Barca in terms of attracting the very best players in the world. They're not even above Man City in that respect. Look, I do rate Baines, I certainly don't think he's a mid-table PL player. However, there's a difference between being a very good PL player and being one of the best in your position in the world. I mean ffs, do you honestly think anyone on the continent thinks Baines is one of the world's premier LBs? This is insane. you stuck abidal who hasn't played in god knows how long in the best in the world so if you can judge on talent and not form then pete can surely? He was Barcelona's best defender last season, and played a good chunk of this until he was hit by cancer. Vidic is still highly-rated by people and he's been out even longer than Abidal...it's not like Abidal has been out for years. His first comment was Baines has been better than Cole for a whole two years. But of a difference to a guy being out for a few months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 he's been voted the best left back in the best league in the world by his peers...and been commented about many times by managers and players...that alone surely puts him not far off.. It's your opinion that the PL is the best in the world, not mine. People involved in the PL rated him on that level, that doesn't automatically make him one of the best in the world. If he's so good why aren't Barca looking to him as a replacement for Abidal? Is it because he's English? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blueboy122 Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Nah, I'm generally not. I'm just finding this entire thread surreal and it is affecting my emotions. For instance, Pete's seriously trying to claim that Baines is one of the world's best LBs. Would anyone outside of Everton fans seriously agree with that? Hopefully not as I dont want him to leave. Its the usual because he is at Everton and not at United, Barca, Munich etc tht he isnt classed as world class. I couldnt care less ab out tags. Your so anti premier league its unreal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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