Difficult Times But Keep The Faith

[benditlikebainesy]

As you may or may not know I run a blog all about the Toffees. There is a new guest post up this afternoon, in which Mark Pendleton discusses our off-the-field situation as well as our on-the-field hopes.

 

I'd appreciate it if you could take a look: http://efcstickytoffee.blogspot.com/2011/08/difficult-times-but-keep-faith.html

 

Cheers.

[Avinalaff]

This post will go down like a lead balloon, but I don't care lol.

 

 

 

Where is the line drawn between being a football fan and being a glory hunter?

 

Is wanting new players, investment, and trophies not glory hunting?

 

I can understand fans wanting a nice new stadium, in order to be able to watch the game in comfort, with a great view, and great atmosphere, but the moment it becomes a revenue opportunity, in which to finance all that is bad about the game, I often scratch my head.

 

In truth, there are very few football fans left. What we have now are fans who are only interested in glory, winning, and bragging about it as though they kicked that winning goal in themselves.

 

Please bring back the days of having 11 equal players, playing against 11 equal players, and a crowd that watched both teams, and enjoyed the game for what it was. Fans became fans because one team played well, and entertained, and became fans favourites etc.

 

Not because some clown changed all the chess pieces so that one team had 6 queens, 4 Castles, and plenty of knights, and the other team had just pawns.

 

Rip the whole game up, tell all the over paid players to go get a job, and tell the money men to piss off, and let the game become a game again.

 

The answer isn't to try to keep up with the other big spenders, but instead, to kick the big spenders out of the game, and stop them from coming back.

 

Back to basics would be just great. Thanks.

 

Why put so much pressure on our club to become in debt?

 

The football clubs should invest at the academy level if anything, and bring talent through because of hard work, proper training, and perseverance.

 

Why bother sending our kids to school, when we can just buy their degree instead? Heck, why bother even having kids and bringing them up? Why not just go out and buy the finished article, because that is what football clubs do. It's all bollox.

 

Can't we enjoy the game without having to be the best all the time? Will our lives be incomplete if Everton don't win another trophy? Humans are very funny animals.

 

Football fans are worse.

[marcopaulo]

wantin your team to win is glory hunting? hmm..winning is what it's about...if you're not arsed about winning don't support a team just watch the games..can't agree to that sorry

[Romey 1878]

Winning is the name of the game. That's why you get 3 points for a win, 1 for a draw and jack shit for a loss.

 

You play to win, always, no matter what the sport is. Sure, you might not always win but that is always the aim.

 

If you're not aiming to win then there really is no point.

[Avinalaff]

What have you won lately?

 

Did you take the free kick that lead to the goal, or perhaps tuck the penalty into the top corner to seal victory?

 

If it was just about following teams that are winning, why aren't you sat in Old Trafford or the Nou Camp??

 

It can't be just about winning, or if it was, why follow a club that doesn't 'win' ?

 

No amount of investment will guarantee wins. No amount of loyal support will guarantee wins either.

 

If there is an acceptance that you can't win every week, then surely the key word changes from 'winning' to 'competing'?

 

My whole point is that you 'can't win' because the competition is fixed. It is not a game of equal opportunity. Even if Everton gain investment, then what about all the other clubs who can no longer compete either?

 

Does it become a private league for the filthy rich only? Is that what football is about? I thought it was a working class sport?

 

Fans want investment - in order to make it even.

 

It won't happen. The only way to make it even is to rid the game of the money men, and all that are associated with it, and start again. Then, you can win, and the cycle will restart.

[pete0]

People argue they'd rather win ugly than lose playing proper football, thats just glory hunting bullshit with a bit of referee help along the way. Imagine playing shit all season and winning the league, i'd take no pleasure from that, jus as man u fans have moaned all year, but then they're on top of the world for the last 2 games cos they've won the league. Big wow they have just wasted £500 watching shite football but getting bragging rights. 2 seasons ago we were getting compared to Barca/Arse and ive never been as proud to be an Evertonian.

Would you rather play like Stoke and win the league or play like Barca and come mid table. If you pick the first you're a glory hunter, if you pick the latter you're a football fan in my eyes. Too many people nowadays would pick the former, and them cunts can just jump ship to shiteh.

Obviously ugly wins are necessary but week in week out, fuck that. I'd rather lose and enjoy the football.

[Romey 1878]

No one can win all the time, even if it ever went back to being a game that wasn't about the money. The bottom line of football, and any sport, is to always aim to win. You don't aim to just take part.

 

You come across as more of an Everton follower rather than an Everton fan(atic) like most of us on here so I can understand why you've got the view you have.

[Avinalaff]

People argue they'd rather win ugly than lose playing proper football, thats just glory hunting bullshit with a bit of referee help along the way. Imagine playing shit all season and winning the league, i'd take no pleasure from that, jus as man u fans have moaned all year, but then they're on top of the world for the last 2 games cos they've won the league. Big wow they have just wasted £500 watching shite football but getting bragging rights. 2 seasons ago we were getting compared to Barca/Arse and ive never been as proud to be an Evertonian.

Would you rather play like Stoke and win the league or play like Barca and come mid table. If you pick the first you're a glory hunter, if you pick the latter you're a football fan in my eyes. Too many people nowadays would pick the former, and them cunts can just jump ship to shiteh.

Obviously ugly wins are necessary but week in week out, fuck that. I'd rather lose and enjoy the football.

 

 

That's my whole outlook Pete. The game first, the winning second. I think we had a similar conversation in a recent thread.

 

If you play football, and your job is to win, I can understand a player being content with that, as he only has the skills he has been blessed with.

 

For football fans, it's different.

 

Fans want to be entertained. Fans who can sit there and watch rubbish, week in week out can't be happy. If they are, there is something wrong. It reminds me of lads who don't bother turning up for their darts team (for example) until they hear their team is in the final.

 

I often watch football from lower leagues, or abroad, or even if I'm passing a park on a Sunday, I might pull over for 10 minutes and watch the lads (perv jokes can be submitted to the secretary). If it's crap, I'll watch another match, or turn off.

 

I don't get lads who say "who cares as long as we win?" - to them, why not just catch the score in the Sunday paper every week, and walk tall knowing you are victorious.

Edited August 17, 2011 by Avinalaff

[The Beard]

What have you won lately?

 

Nothing but I want Everton to win.

 

Did you take the free kick that lead to the goal, or perhaps tuck the penalty into the top corner to seal victory?

 

No but I want Baines/ Arteta/ Anichebe or whoever has that Royal Blue shirt on to do so.

 

If it was just about following teams that are winning, why aren't you sat in Old Trafford or the Nou Camp??

 

Because I want to be there when Everton win.

 

It can't be just about winning, or if it was, why follow a club that doesn't 'win' ?

 

Because I want it to be Everton that win and for me to be there when it happend.

 

No amount of investment will guarantee wins. No amount of loyal support will guarantee wins either.

 

Maybe not but Everton get my loyal support no matter.

 

If there is an acceptance that you can't win every week, then surely the key word changes from 'winning' to 'competing'?

 

I want Everton to win every week by competing.

 

My whole point is that you 'can't win' because the competition is fixed. It is not a game of equal opportunity. Even if Everton gain investment, then what about all the other clubs who can no longer compete either?

 

I want what is the best for Everton, no matter.

 

Does it become a private league for the filthy rich only? Is that what football is about? I thought it was a working class sport?

 

I am working class and I want Everton to win, no matter.

 

Fans want investment - in order to make it even.

 

It won't happen. The only way to make it even is to rid the game of the money men, and all that are associated with it, and start again. Then, you can win, and the cycle will restart.

 

Where do I stand? Fan or Fanatic?

 

Apologies, I answered the questions in the quote!

Edited August 17, 2011 by The Beard

[marcus jones]

Teams playing good, attractive football normally win a lot more games than hoofers, NORMALLY.

[Avinalaff]

 

Where do I stand? Fan or Fanatic?

 

Apologies, I answered the questions in the quote!

 

Beardy, we've known each others views for years matey, so I'm not going to start figuring you out all over again lol.

 

I think you need to go buy a dog, or an Xbox, or just get a girl friend.

[Matt]

This post will go down like a lead balloon, but I don't care lol.

 

 

 

Where is the line drawn between being a football fan and being a glory hunter?

 

Is wanting new players, investment, and trophies not glory hunting?

No, its wanting you're team to win. Glory hunting is not really caring about a team then choosing one that’s successful at the time.

 

I can understand fans wanting a nice new stadium, in order to be able to watch the game in comfort, with a great view, and great atmosphere, but the moment it becomes a revenue opportunity, in which to finance all that is bad about the game, I often scratch my head.

Football is a business, to attract players you need to have money, history and a good stadium. I personally like the fact we have an old stadium, but then im sentimental. I can completely understand the need for a new stadium. Its not about keeping the fans comfy, its about raising cash to buy players, develop youth etc

 

In truth, there are very few football fans left. What we have now are fans who are only interested in glory, winning, and bragging about it as though they kicked that winning goal in themselves.

These are called Chelski or Citeh supporters. There are plenty of fans for other clubs, look anywhere out of the Sky 5 (im including Citeh in that now). You cant say a Bolton/Wigan/Stoke/Villa/etc supporter is a glory hunter. They support the club because they were brought up with it, because they’ve won close to bugger all in 20+ years. I was brought up with Everton in the 90s! But despite that decade I still get to the game whenever I can, I still buy the kits etc, I stick it out til the end of shite games and no matter what I love my team.

 

 

Please bring back the days of having 11 equal players, playing against 11 equal players, and a crowd that watched both teams, and enjoyed the game for what it was. Fans became fans because one team played well, and entertained, and became fans favourites etc.

So equal against equal? Surely that’s a 0-0 draw every game, leaving us all joint winners and jointly relegated.

 

Not because some clown changed all the chess pieces so that one team had 6 queens, 4 Castles, and plenty of knights, and the other team had just pawns.

 

Rip the whole game up, tell all the over paid players to go get a job, and tell the money men to piss off, and let the game become a game again.

Agree with the 1^st part, the players wage structure needs complete review. Money men are need to bring new stadiums etc.

 

The answer isn't to try to keep up with the other big spenders, but instead, to kick the big spenders out of the game, and stop them from coming back.

We beat Citeh nearly every time they play them. Its just part of the game now, its not going to change

 

Back to basics would be just great. Thanks.

 

Why put so much pressure on our club to become in debt?

 

The football clubs should invest at the academy level if anything, and bring talent through because of hard work, proper training, and perseverance.

It does. Examples Rooney, Rodwell, Barkely, Baines even if I remember correctly.

Why bother sending our kids to school, when we can just buy their degree instead? Heck, why bother even having kids and bringing them up? Why not just go out and buy the finished article, because that is what football clubs do. It's all bollox.

Some football teams too, but it’s the minoriry.

 

Can't we enjoy the game without having to be the best all the time? Will our lives be incomplete if Everton don't win another trophy? Humans are very funny animals.

I do enjoy the game most of the time, just because im happy im watching Everton. I still sing to myself when I put my kit on every week, “and if yer know yer history”. I would love them to win something again, I don’t think id be incomplete but I can tell you id be a hell of a lot happier for a time!

 

Football fans are worse.

 

It can't be just about winning, or if it was, why follow a club that doesn't 'win' ?

I don’t think you get the difference of being a fan then, like Romey explained – there are supporters who follow the team and there are fans who live, breathe, dream, hate, love and are addicted too. I don’t have a choice in supporting Everton, its something I was born with (I know it sounds cliché

 

 

For your second post, everything the Beard says I would say too.

 

Pete, we got compare the Arse/Barca in 1 game by Lee fuckin Dixon (if i remember correctly). It was beautiful football for 1 game but it means bugger all if you don’t win. Proudest Ive ever been was in 95, when we won the FA cup. Wasn’t pretty but a team that was struggling constantly defeat everyone that came through and beat a strong Utd team, I was made up mate.

 

That said, I do love watching us play beautiful football and under Moyes we have done it many times. But weve won nothing.

 

You complete to win. Its that simple and you win by . See Tens sig for the perfect summary.

Edited August 17, 2011 by Matt

[pete0]

 

 

That's my whole outlook Pete. The game first, the winning second. I think we had a similar conversation in a recent thread.

 

If you play football, and your job is to win, I can understand a player being content with that, as he only has the skills he has been blessed with.

 

For football fans, it's different.

 

Fans want to be entertained. Fans who can sit there and watch rubbish, week in week out can't be happy. If they are, there is something wrong. It reminds me of lads who don't bother turning up for their darts team (for example) until they hear their team is in the final.

 

I often watch football from lower leagues, or abroad, or even if I'm passing a park on a Sunday, I might pull over for 10 minutes and watch the lads (perv jokes can be submitted to the secretary). If it's crap, I'll watch another match, or turn off.

 

I don't get lads who say "who cares as long as we win?" - to them, why not just catch the score in the Sunday paper every week, and walk tall knowing you are victorious.

In an earlier thread I said I seen man city kids against liverpool, this was a 'perve'. I lived round the corner(near maine rd) from Platt lane, where city youth play and was jus walking past to go the pub and watch the derby and on the way seen the kids were playing and stopped and watched.

As you say about the darts team I cant stand them c*nts, jus like the lil feckers who wont play footy in the rain. From the people I know which is a mixture of everton, liverpool, man u, city, stoke, newcastle, sunderland, chelsea, b'burn, bolton, arsenal(mostly non of them have that part of London roots) then a mixture of midland clubs, surprised theres such a variety my favourites being wba fans as they are jus happy to be in the league. The fans most happy to go the match and win ugly are utd, but i think that because they actually get a trophy at the end. The others are unsurprisingly kopites(bit of irony in that saying as hardly any of them have been the game) who are happy aslong as they win cos they just about watch the highlights on MOTD, then moan about ref decisions because MOTD don't show the ones against them-i've actually met liverpool fans who didnt know what the word kopite was .

One of my favourite games was a 0-0 at Goodison against Newcastle and I have friends who cant get there head around that. Even long ball football can be more entertaining than a passing game, but on average passing football is better.

[Avinalaff]

I watched Everton since the early 70's, even though I was actually at a game whilst being baby sitted in the 60's lol, and there have been loads of moments, many forgotten, when I've been delighted, and loads when I've been frustrated. I was spared a lot of the grimness of the 90's because I worked 6 days per week at the time, but I've seen us lift trophies, and win derbies, and play against European competition, but it's never really felt different when the whistle blows.

At the whistle, I'm still 100% optimistic regardless of opposition, and still have the pre match butterflies in the big games.

 

My favourite thing about Everton in the 40 years I've supported the club though has been David Moyes. I think if he were to leave it would be a very sad day for the club. I don't think he gets anywhere near the credit he deserves. I shout at the guy like everybody else, but I'd not want the guy to leave for any piece of silverware in return.

[The Beard]

 

Beardy, we've known each others views for years matey, so I'm not going to start figuring you out all over again lol.

 

I think you need to go buy a dog, or an Xbox, or just get a girl friend.

 

Laffy, I have a dog, I have a wii and a wife for nearly 25 years, wlil that suffice.

[Avinalaff]

 

Laffy, I have a dog, I have a wii and a wife for nearly 25 years, wlil that suffice.

 

Do you have a taxi?

[StevO]

I guess we had a few pisses off fans when we finished 4th? Our football was shite! Long ball and won most games with a scrappy 1-0.

 

The FA cup in 95 must have made people sick and ashamed because the dogs of war could not play entertaining football if they tried!

 

Ask the Chelsea fans who won two leagues playing ugly football under Jose how they feel about it.

 

Ask the inter fans who celebrated the league and CL wins playing ugly football.

 

Sports and any sort of competition is about the winning.

 

Arsenal played some great football for years but won fuck all! Their fans would rather a cup or a league I'm sure.

[marcopaulo]

best counter attacking goal i've seen us score in the 95 cup final

[StevO]

Pace in the attack with diamond and rideout!!!

[marcopaulo]

we need a new limpar!

[c1982]

we need a new limpar!

 

Limpar and Kanchelskis!!!

[StevO]

I agree with both previous statements.

 

Makes me think, big lack of swedes in the prem now days.

Edited August 21, 2011 by StevO

[Bailey]

I guess we had a few pisses off fans when we finished 4th? Our football was shite! Long ball and won most games with a scrappy 1-0.

 

The FA cup in 95 must have made people sick and ashamed because the dogs of war could not play entertaining football if they tried!

 

Ask the Chelsea fans who won two leagues playing ugly football under Jose how they feel about it.

 

Ask the inter fans who celebrated the league and CL wins playing ugly football.

 

Sports and any sort of competition is about the winning.

 

Arsenal played some great football for years but won fuck all! Their fans would rather a cup or a league I'm sure.

 

Spot on... For me its not necessary that we play good football, but I want to see us play effective football and show desire, fight and bottle. The CL side, the Chelsea & Mourinho teams may not have been attractive, but they fought for every blade of grass on the pitch and worked hard for each other. I only saw that about 3 teams last year with Everton, against Man City away, Chelsea in the cup at home & Liverpool at home.

[The Beard]

 

Do you have a taxi?

 

No! but I have been in a few and had topical debates with the driver.