StevO Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 Hell no. Did you play footy as a kid? Did you play it because it was a business? No you played because it was a game. There is a business of football, but it was and always will be a game. Do players wasnt to play for the clubs that make the biggest profit or that win the biggest trophies? I've wondered this before, maybe being a sports fan isnt the same for you as it is for everyone else. You know what, I cant believe I actually replied in this thread. I should know better, i'm such an idiot at times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 Football = Sport = Compete = To strive against another or others to attain a goal, such as an advantage or a victory Here's an example, I don't like cricket, I dislike it, don't really understand it, however when it came to the Ashes I watched and got really involved, the reason being I wanted England to win. Same with rugby to a similar degree, I will watch if I have an interest. With Everton I understand football, love football, play football and when I do I hate losing - I want to win. When I watch Everton I want us to win more than I do when i'm playing. A trophy is the ultimate recognition of victory. StevO, Matt and Lowensda 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 interesting question. Personally, it shouldnt be about money but absolutely about trophies. Theres also then a generational thing to be taken into consideration - those approaching 20 won remember Rideouts header to win the FA Cup and so will be desperate to see some silverware. Those approaching 40 might well remember the last league championships. Either way, its frustrating - either youve never seen your club win anything or youve witnessed the fall from grace. Personally, I want the best every time i see them play. Its in the clubs motto and the players and management should all aspire to this. Sport is all about competition, its about being the best and winning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 Add the innovation (a whole lot of firsts), ethics and integrity of the club, nice to see that our players don't surround the ref. Disgrace that it is something to be proud of and we get less decisions, but that's the FA's fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted August 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 Hell no. Did you play footy as a kid? Did you play it because it was a business? No you played because it was a game. There is a business of football, but it was and always will be a game. Do players wasnt to play for the clubs that make the biggest profit or that win the biggest trophies? I've wondered this before, maybe being a sports fan isnt the same for you as it is for everyone else. You know what, I cant believe I actually replied in this thread. I should know better, i'm such an idiot at times. Ste, I think you need to use less literal logic and realise that it isn't the innocent game we loved as kids when clubs are spending billions of pounds. I'm not sure there was any need either for the personal dig, just because our views differ than yours, but I agree with some of what you wrote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 There is a hell of a lot of money lost to agents, Ferrari dealerships, jewellers, and when you see clubs like Chester and Plymouth pretty much vanish you know it's wrong. Anyhow there will always be a rich versus poor argument but at the moment the gap is ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 You're right, we should give bill manager of the year for operating on a pretty much negative net budget. Fuck it, why not throw milli vanilli an Ivor Novello whist were at it. I think it goes a little like this:- Davie: "bill, it's no good, that useless sod Saha who we got for zilch is off, got no one else, the £60,000 Greek lad ain't up to it yet, can you get me ibrahimovich?" Bill "no Davie, we are still paying huge operating costs, but I tell you what, I'll get a lad called jelavic for ya, he's a good player, I've scouted him and seeing as though I sold arteta, beckford, Vaughan, bilyaletdinov and pretty much seen you work with fuck all I'll get him for ya." Davie:- "och, bill ya a diamond you really are, not only have I got a chairman who restricts me from blowing millions, you actually pick and get the players for me, fuck the kirby fiasco, the fortress lies, the fact that you promised us a world class stadium and instead tried to deliver a flat pack job in kirby, you are the biggest evertonian there is" Bill:- "yep, just off to take a call off the head of ICI, he's in Manchester, need to catch him to discuss due dilligence" So basically what you are saying is that Bill Kenwright and the Board had no part to play what so ever in finding the finances or negotiating the deals to bring players in? Typical BU BS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 We have a squad capable of producing brilliance; therefore, I expect silverware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus jones Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 We have a squad capable of producing brilliance; therefore, I expect silverware. I would not quite say brilliance, more inclined towards "effective"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 We have a squad capable of producing brilliance; therefore, I expect silverware. Nice to see a sentence about Everton start with that, as it's the first time we've had a full squad in a long time. Remember when the bench changed to 7 subs as it really highlighted are lack of depth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue 250 Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 Yes we do have a good squad, yep and a very good first 11, we have a manager who is slowly becoming a very good manager......hell I don't even hate Bill ! I've always felt lucky to be an Evertonian, with or without trophies. Mind you there were times as a kid when bad results led me to this....... . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 Squad... Howard/Mucha Hibbert/Neville Baines/Garbutt Jags/Heitinga Distin/Duffy Gibson/Junior Fellaini/Barkley Osman/Naismith Pienaar/Gueye Mirallas/Coleman Jelavic/Anichebe No doubt I've missed a really obvious player but I think we still need at least 3 players - cm/am/str. A few injuries to key players and suddenly this squad wouldn't look so good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 Ste, I think you need to use less literal logic and realise that it isn't the innocent game we loved as kids when clubs are spending billions of pounds. I'm not sure there was any need either for the personal dig, just because our views differ than yours, but I agree with some of what you wrote. But thats just it, it is still the innocent game. When the whistle blows in any sport its about the game, not the money. And its not a personal dig, its an honest thought. I dont get why you follow sport if you dont think its about the winning. Ask anyone else who has played sport at any level, do they prefer to take part or to win? As you will see through out this thread, you are a small minority. Everyone else wants to see a win rather than just a nice friendly match where people just make a profit. Either you werent emotionally effected by the trophies you have seen us (Everton that is, I didnt play but it is still us) win, or you just dont remember. But I have been, and for me, I want to feel that again. I'm positive im not alone here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue 250 Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 Squad... Howard/Mucha Hibbert/Neville Baines/Garbutt Jags/Heitinga Distin/Duffy Gibson/Junior Fellaini/Barkley Osman/Naismith Pienaar/Gueye Mirallas/Coleman Jelavic/Anichebe No doubt I've missed a really obvious player but I think we still need at least 3 players - cm/am/str. A few injuries to key players and suddenly this squad wouldn't look so good! Thing is, if you played the same game with Aston Villa's squad, liverpools squad and so on, your going to find most of us are in the same situation.Three or four injuries to most teams would probably be a disaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_E Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 I think we need another real striker who has proven he can score and a young talented winger (Ince?). And we could do with another centre mid as well, but I think that's less urgent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 Thing is, if you played the same game with Aston Villa's squad, liverpools squad and so on, your going to find most of us are in the same situation.Three or four injuries to most teams would probably be a disaster. Correct but add those players in key positions and we're challenging with the best - one more permanent deal maybe in the £5m bracket and a couple of canny Moyes loans then we've got a real squad - it's good now but there's certainly a little room for manoeuvring there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 No doubt I've missed a really obvious player but I think we still need at least 3 players - cm/am/str. A few injuries to key players and suddenly this squad wouldn't look so good! Beneyoun may cover 2 of them positions. Personally believe we're 2 WC players from challenging for the league. Barkley could turn out to be one, and then all we need is a unicorn of a striker (as every other club prays for one too) and from the reviews Niang could be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted August 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 (edited) But thats just it, it is still the innocent game. When the whistle blows in any sport its about the game, not the money. And its not a personal dig, its an honest thought. I dont get why you follow sport if you dont think its about the winning. Ask anyone else who has played sport at any level, do they prefer to take part or to win? As you will see through out this thread, you are a small minority. Everyone else wants to see a win rather than just a nice friendly match where people just make a profit. Either you werent emotionally effected by the trophies you have seen us (Everton that is, I didnt play but it is still us) win, or you just dont remember. But I have been, and for me, I want to feel that again. I'm positive im not alone here. Maybe I have a loft full of silverware and realise it's just something else to dust. I'll always enjoy watching Everton, whether they win or lose. Wanting them to win goes without saying. It isn't the be all and end all though and I wouldn't swap the 10 years I've enjoyed with Moyes for a league title. I think you'll find that's probably a majority view amongst mature fans. I don't expect anything else from you glory hunting whipper snappers. As for the bold bit, it shows everything I've said has flown straight over your head. Edited August 23, 2012 by Avinalaff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 looking at that squad part of me is glad we didn't qualify for europe..the extra games would cripple us imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 So basically what you are saying is that Bill Kenwright and the Board had no part to play what so ever in finding the finances or negotiating the deals to bring players in? Typical BU BS At times I think you are void of intelligence or just on the wind up, especially the blue union crap. How have they "found" the money, please please tell me!!! Forgive me for thinking that we have increased our debt in their tenure and stripped assets, in the meantime our transfer budget is funded by selling players and buying cheaper. Aka a negligible net transfer spend. Unless you have selective reading it has been made clear that not one member of the board has invested a single penny more than the shares they bought in the club. How can they take credit??? Dunc, if you want to make blue union comments then find a member of the blue union to address, however I think you have a fair but of reading to do first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 Maybe I have a loft full of silverware and realise it's just something else to dust. I'll always enjoy watching Everton, whether they win or lose. Wanting them to win goes without saying. It isn't the be all and end all though and I wouldn't swap the 10 years I've enjoyed with Moyes for a league title. I think you'll find that's probably a majority view amongst mature fans. I don't expect anything else from you glory hunting whipper snappers. As for the bold bit, it shows everything I've said has flown straight over your head. Its not gone over my head at all, I see what your saying, but I disagree with you. I would also question you as a majority. I dont know anyone who wouldnt swap the "success" we have had under Moyes for a league title. And even more so, the fact you wouldnt swap being mid table for a league title further makes me wonder why you like sport, but ive already gone through that. Got to be honest, its a while since ive been called a whipper snapper, and ive never ever been called a glory hunter. Im an Evertonian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 At times I think you are void of intelligence or just on the wind up, especially the blue union crap. How have they "found" the money, please please tell me!!! Forgive me for thinking that we have increased our debt in their tenure and stripped assets, in the meantime our transfer budget is funded by selling players and buying cheaper. Aka a negligible net transfer spend. Unless you have selective reading it has been made clear that not one member of the board has invested a single penny more than the shares they bought in the club. How can they take credit??? Dunc, if you want to make blue union comments then find a member of the blue union to address, however I think you have a fair but of reading to do first. Ive asked you this a million times and you always avoid answering Yes the club have sold off all the off field assets, but what would you rather they had done? We had an ageing squad and we were facing almost certain relegation, would you rather we still had those off field assets and had never invested in the squad? Yes I get it that you distance yourself from actually being a member of the Buffoon Union but the reason I associate you with them is bacause you keep spouting the same old conspiracy theories and same old sound bites that they do As Ive also said before, this board and Kenwright are a million miles from being perfect, but you whinge and moan about everything connected with the club and never miss a chance to turn every thread into an anti Bill argument. You get on Moyse's back about being too negative yet you have to be the most negative Evertonian in history All I am saying is, fine critisice the manager/team/board/ tofeelady or whoever when they get it wrong but why cant you ever give credit where it is due? Are you honestly not even in the slightest bit pleased with the clubs transfer dealings this summer? If you are, do you think Moyse is buying these players and paying their wages out of his own pocket? Does Moyse negotiate all the players contracts? Does Moyse negotiate all the transfer fees, in and out? Did we get great money for Arteta, Lescott, Rodwell, McFadden. Johnson etc? marcopaulo and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 To be fair Haf has said the odd positive this transfer window! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 Come on Dunc. What could the toffeelady possibly have done wrong? Leave her out of this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 Come on Dunc. What could the toffeelady possibly have done wrong? Leave her out of this! That bloke had a moan when she didn't give his daughter a toffee... I seem to remember reading about it - maybe that's Haf?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 Ive asked you this a million times and you always avoid answering Yes the club have sold off all the off field assets, but what would you rather they had done? We had an ageing squad and we were facing almost certain relegation, would you rather we still had those off field assets and had never invested in the squad? Yes I get it that you distance yourself from actually being a member of the Buffoon Union but the reason I associate you with them is bacause you keep spouting the same old conspiracy theories and same old sound bites that they do As Ive also said before, this board and Kenwright are a million miles from being perfect, but you whinge and moan about everything connected with the club and never miss a chance to turn every thread into an anti Bill argument. You get on Moyse's back about being too negative yet you have to be the most negative Evertonian in history All I am saying is, fine critisice the manager/team/board/ tofeelady or whoever when they get it wrong but why cant you ever give credit where it is due? Are you honestly not even in the slightest bit pleased with the clubs transfer dealings this summer? If you are, do you think Moyse is buying these players and paying their wages out of his own pocket? Does Moyse negotiate all the players contracts? Does Moyse negotiate all the transfer fees, in and out? Did we get great money for Arteta, Lescott, Rodwell, McFadden. Johnson etc? So you agree they didn't "find" the money for these deals then? In effect they sold what they inherited without making any provisions to replace what heritage they disposed of to cover their incompetence. Further reducing our ability to leverage any financing at non extortionate rates. The vibrac deal for one potentially being one vehicle for a board member to line his pockets, British virgin islands, hmmmm. Nice juicy return there. But to buffer your defence of an incompetent board you want me to give credit for getting reasonable fees for reasonable players? Maybe one of them would be gracious enough to put the £4m that the gosling fiasco cost us back in the coffers? I will criticise moyes for his tactics where applicable, also he will get praise for working absolute miracles. I certainly am not going to dilute that praise by attributing credit to a bunch of idiots that have held the club back years. Moyes deserves every bit of credit that is forthcoming to the club. Not one of that shower upstairs will get any off me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flaminfox Posted August 24, 2012 Report Share Posted August 24, 2012 I am just happy that we have not turned out like portsmouth or rangers and for that I thank Bill and I cannot hate him. However, I really do wish he would make it easier to sell the club. Someone that seems to work for Everton (not confirmed but has shown evidence) was telling me that his valuation of Everton is making investors decide not to invest in Everton All I want for Everton is for someone that will be able to provide Moyes with a 10-20 million pound transfer budget season after season with also the capabilities of remodeling Goodison so there is a larger capacity and less pillars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted August 24, 2012 Report Share Posted August 24, 2012 ... I'll always enjoy watching Everton, whether they win or lose. ... On very few occations have I enjoyed watching Everton lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted August 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2012 On very few occations have I enjoyed watching Everton lose. I think I'll give up. Sometimes it's impossible to connect with people. Not directed at anybody in particular, but a few of you need to let a little 'spirit of the occasion' touch you. Maybe all the athletes who only won silver or bronze should hang their heads in shame at their failure to win. Maybe scold our kids for not winning the egg and spoon race too, as we couldn't possibly have enjoyed it if they didn't win? There is a real narcissistic expectancy about some football fans who think that winning is all that matters. I wonder how many of the fans who think winning is all that matters have been winners in life yourselves? Every fan hopes their team will win, but to ignore the other reasons for loving the club is shallow and empty. Where is the emotional attachment to the clubs plight, or the pride in knowing they 'almost' succeeded against all the odds? The whole point of being a fan used to be to take the trouble to attend the match and support and encourage the team, win or lose, rain or shine. Now, some fans seem to 'need' their club to win in order to feel achievement themselves, instead of finding their own successes in life, and simply enjoying supporting the club regardless. Many of the guys with the biggest opinions on football forums, regardless of club, have rarely or never attended a match, and instead complain that the club are skint, while they watch from afar, yet should the club win something they'll celebrate like they put the ball in the net themselves, and walk tall like they have the winners medal around their necks, yet not a single player has ever heard their voice. Proper football fans. There is a name for it that sounds a bit like Tory kunters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 24, 2012 Report Share Posted August 24, 2012 I know the point you are making Av, and you are describing my first game at goodison. It just so happens we beat Forest 5-0. The game itself never took me in nor the result, it was the stadium, the crowd and the tribal nature of it all. I was only 8. However after a few games, you become one of the tribe, shouting, chanting, oooing and aghhhing. The reason is you are willing your team to win. The stadium and atmosphere are less in your mind - you are focused on trevor steven, andy gray, neville southall. When you have fans dreaming about matches and waking up feeling the win - that tells you everything magical about the sport. I first went to goodison at a time when the atmosphere was unbelievable, we could squeeze 50,000 fans in, holding on to terrace bars to get a look etc. Even at that young age, winning was everything. I cried after the 85 FA cup final and found it hard to watch the opening credits of Question of sport for years after (watching whiteside bend it in made me sick) When people think i'm hard on Bill and co, it's because my expectations of this club were set very high and they are not subsiding. I'm not going to apologise for it, nor am I going to find some crazy reason to be thankful that Kenwright isn't a Venky. However it all depends on personal opinion. StevO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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