West Ham (Away)

[foobiezw]

Jelavic has been disappointing for the last few matches for me now and most of the season so far tbh. Not sure if its because of shoddy service from the midfield or defenders just have gotten used to him.

[thoward18]

Jelavic has been disappointing for the last few matches for me now and most of the season so far tbh. Not sure if its because of shoddy service from the midfield or defenders just have gotten used to him.

 

I think it's a combination of things. You guys would know better than I but I believe Jelavic came into the league with little fanfare. Now he's a marked man. I also don't think we can underestimate the impact Mirallas had on the rest of the offense. He created so much space for everyone else and especially Jelavic. Finally, I think he's just off form. He made some good runs today and got into some scoring positions. But his touch let him down. That's going to happen to strikers. If he starts to become completely unnoticeable or struggles a severely long time then I'll be worried about it, but right now I think he just needs to put some balls in the net during training to build his confidence back up and just ride out this underwhelming patch of games.

[geezer]

Or maybe the reason you see it is because he isn't yours? And when you say you "watched the game" , basically you saw the highlights...

 

Can anyone tell me the team!? Mike's let me down this week, posting a dodgy image I can't see on my phone!! . I heard Vic's playing on the radio? What's that about? Vellios comes on and gets an assist and is still on the bench I take it? And Vic is thrown straight back in after being injured for what? 2 months?

 

Edit: thanks Zoo

 

 

No , as in " watched the game " as in I get to see every game where I am , not just highlights

[geezer]

planted his foot in Baines' face and the commentors are giving a 10 minute preach on how that was not a red card.

 

Have a word with yourself " planted his foot in Baines " try his hip and you might be bit closer . The ref and linesman were a disgrace and should never be left in charge of a game of football again , neither were a red .end of

[GoodisonRoad]

No , as in " watched the game " as in I get to see every game where I am , not just highlights

 

Great, what did you make of the contrast between Noble's pathetic dramatics and Baines getting up straight away and getting on with it? A few hammers i heard were calling for Noble to be given an England call up because Osman was Ossie gave him a lesson yesterday

[Romey 1878]

 

 

Have a word with yourself " planted his foot in Baines " try his hip and you might be bit closer . The ref and linesman were a disgrace and should never be left in charge of a game of football again , neither were a red .end of

 

It was his shoulder. But I agree with the rest. When Cole got the red I couldn't believe it.

[geezer]

Great, what did you make of the contrast between Noble's pathetic dramatics and Baines getting up straight away and getting on with it? A few hammers i heard were calling for Noble to be given an England call up because Osman was Ossie gave him a lesson yesterday

If you want my opinion of the game , It was ruined as soon as the pathetic ref was given the go ahead to take charge of the game , he ****,ed it up from kick off . Collins did,nt moan when he got a kick in the head and if you watched the game both teams just got on with it , no moaning , just got up from tackles and carried on . If we had of played shit then that would have been our problem for losing , incompetent refereeing ruined our game , Coles sending off was totally wrong and changed the game . Sam and David should hunt that tosser down and give him a few reds

[GoodisonRoad]

If you want my opinion of the game , It was ruined as soon as the pathetic ref was given the go ahead to take charge of the game , he ****,ed it up from kick off . Collins did,nt moan when he got a kick in the head and if you watched the game both teams just got on with it , no moaning , just got up from tackles and carried on . If we had of played shit then that would have been our problem for losing , incompetent refereeing ruined our game , Coles sending off was totally wrong and changed the game . Sam and David should hunt that tosser down and give him a few reds

 

I agree, the referee did ruin the game as it wasnt a "dirty" game by any stretch of the imagination and you probably wouldnt get as bad of a decision in a sunday league game, but well done for avoiding the question. You also seem to think you would have won the game if it wasnt for the ref? We had far far more possesion than you did and the only chances you created seemed to be from Goal-kicks! Dont forget it was 1-1 at the time of the sending off, not 1-0 and we had a goal disallowed when you scored completely against the run of play. It would be a total injustice if both of the cards were not rescinded, as i think both players will be big misses, Gibson for us and Cole for you.

[geezer]

I agree, the referee did ruin the game as it wasnt a "dirty" game by any stretch of the imagination and you probably wouldnt get as bad of a decision in a sunday league game, but well done for avoiding the question. You also seem to think you would have won the game if it wasnt for the ref? We had far far more possesion than you did and the only chances you created seemed to be from Goal-kicks! Dont forget it was 1-1 at the time of the sending off, not 1-0 and we had a goal disallowed when you scored completely against the run of play. It would be a total injustice if both of the cards were not rescinded, as i think both players will be big misses, Gibson for us and Cole for you.

 

 

I am not saying we would have won the game but it would have given us a far better chance of winning , yes you did have most of the play but as you know that dont always mean a win . I agree with you that it was not a dirty game and if we had a more experienced and fair ref ( hard to get nowadays I know ) it would have been a more enjoyable game to watch and easier to swallow however the result turned out

[barryj]

 

I am not saying we would have won the game but it would have given us a far better chance of winning , yes you did have most of the play but as you know that dont always mean a win . I agree with you that it was not a dirty game and if we had a more experienced and fair ref ( hard to get nowadays I know ) it would have been a more enjoyable game to watch and easier to swallow however the result turned out

 

I don't think any/many of us would disagree with that. Poor refereeing ruined the game. However that has been the story of our season so far!

 

[Zoo]

I don't think any/many of us would disagree with that. Poor refereeing ruined the game. However that has been the story of our season so far!

 

That's why I'm not too fussed about yesterday, too many times we have lost points over bad officials so it was nice to finally get some luck ourselves. I feel for West Ham because of the way in which they lost but it's swings and roundabouts in the end.

[Avinalaff]

I'm certainly fussed about losing Gibson for 3 games. We need to reinforce come January.

[SimonButtle]

I'm certainly fussed about losing Gibson for 3 games. We need to reinforce come January.

Desperately as well imo. Jelavic is suffering from a severe dose of second season syndrome and low confidence, whilst Vic scored yesterday, his goal ratio will never keep us in the hunt for 4th. We need other options in the middle(without Mirallas we look devoid of ideas at times) and we need competition/replacement for Howard and possibly another CB also. Im guessing a lot of this is the reason Moyes is stalling on his contract at the moment(although i have a feeling he may look to move on anyway) Edited December 23, 2012 by Simon

[Zoo]

I'm certainly fussed about losing Gibson for 3 games. We need to reinforce come January.

 

Well with a bit of luck the FA will see sense and over-turn his dismissal.

[rubecula]

As has been said it was not a dirty game and red cards were most certainly not needed. The red was rubbish and should be taken to one side and have things explained to him on how to conduct himself properly. The linesman was not too clever either. Both Moyes and Alladyce were justifiably angry at the end. But without inducing a fine, there is little they can actually say on air. I hope both reds are rescinded at the earliet opportunity (which I assume will be in January now, so it won't make any difference to player's availability)

[Bailey]

I think we can count ourselves a little lucky yesterday. We were probably just about the better team, but a draw would have been fair. I can see why Vic's foul was given (not that I'm not agreeing with it!) and while it isnt a foul if its not against the keeper, we wouldnt have been happy if someone like Nolan had got away with it against Howard. That being said, Vic didnt have to even attempt it because Jaskalinen was getting nowhere near that ball and its a shame because it was a brilliant header from Osman. When we played the ball on the ground we caused them problems but too many times, we played like them in just lumping it forward and that is exactly what they wanted because they were always going to beat us under those circumstances. The sending off really helped us, but both red cards were an absolute joke. Considering nearly every fan, player and both managers condemned the decision, I suspect it will be upheld.

 

I thought our starting line-up was a bit of a shocker, and our back 4 and the centre of midfield were awful all game. The midfield didnt help out the defenders one little bit and playing 4-4-2 didnt help as no-one was shielding the striker that dropped off. Heitinga had a mare but Distin wasnt much better. Jags was understably getting caught out of position as well, but he got bullied out of it as well. I saw very little from either Neville or Gibson all game but most of the time they were bypassed.

 

Pienaar & Osman were very bright, Osman was anonymous out wide but when he came inside he was brilliant. If we arent going to play Barkley while Felli is out, then our centre midfielders should be Gibson (if he isnt banned) with Hitz & Osman just ahead of them.

 

Vic was in and out, did some good and did some bad. He took his goal very well though.

 

I felt a bit sorry for Jelavic because our midfielders are one step to slow for him. He wants the ball threaded to him straight away and everytime he beats the offside trap if they do that but they take a couple of touches too many and the chance is gone. He didnt make the most of the scraps he did get, but he is working hard to create chances and he needs his team mates to buck their ideas up.

 

Whichever way you look at it though, they were an important 3 points and we have played much better this season and come home with nothing.

[Bailey]

I'm certainly fussed about losing Gibson for 3 games. We need to reinforce come January.

 

I dont think we can afford to 'reinforce'. We have three midfielders sitting on the bench and another prospect in the ressies/U18's. Considering Felli is only out for 2 more games and Gibson potentially 3 (both will be reduced by 1 after the boxing day game), it will be a waste of money to get a player in to cover this. If we are going to buy a midfielder they need to be top class, and the January market isnt the time to make those type of purchases due to the inflated prices.

[Steve_E]

I was very disappointed with Jelavic to be honest. If he isn't scoring, he really offers the team very little (nothing really). He isn't creative, nor can he hold the ball up.

[SimonButtle]

I dont think we can afford to 'reinforce'. We have three midfielders sitting on the bench and another prospect in the ressies/U18's. Considering Felli is only out for 2 more games and Gibson potentially 3 (both will be reduced by 1 after the boxing day game), it will be a waste of money to get a player in to cover this. If we are going to buy a midfielder they need to be top class, and the January market isnt the time to make those type of purchases due to the inflated prices.

It's not so much about reinforcing for strength, it's about having other options to offer in terms of tactics and from the bench, if we are serious about mounting a challenge for the 4th spot then we need this, our small threadbare squad simply won't last out the 38 games imo.

[Bailey]

It's not so much about reinforcing for strength, it's about having other options to offer in terms of tactics and from the bench, if we are serious about mounting a challenge for the 4th spot then we need this, our small threadbare squad simply won't last out the 38 games imo.

 

I think we have a lot of options in midfield though which is what the post I quoted referred to.

 

We have:

 

Coleman, Oviedo, Pienaar, Osman, Hitz, Gibbo, Felli, Neville, Barkley, Mirallas, Gueye & potentially Lundstram who are all capable of holding their own, let alone, Heits, Jags and Vic who can be used if needs must.

 

If we are going to buy a midfielder then they need to be top class as otherwise we are wasting our money in this window.

[Bailey]

I was very disappointed with Jelavic to be honest. If he isn't scoring, he really offers the team very little (nothing really). He isn't creative, nor can he hold the ball up.

 

It certainly wasnt his best game. He has one very good chance & then another that the WH defender got a brilliant block into as well as few half chances you would at least hope he would have done more with. He is a top player though and I dont think we are getting the best out of him.

 

Almost every time he was caught off side, its because the player with the ball (normally Osman or Pienaar tbh) take 3 touches instead of playing him in early. He is always looking for that ball and with him in the side we will create more chances than without. Vic did ok yesterday, took his goal nicely and whilst he made a couple of nice turns he never really created any chances like Jelavic did. Although, in balance I would also say that Vic tried to make some decent runs as well, but (bar the goal) he was never picked out.

[Romey 1878]

When the team was announced I really feared for us, and for the first half I was right to be fearful. We looked like a team of strangers for the most part. That was hardly a surprise when we had two players returning from a month or two out, a centre back playing at right back, a centre back who has barely played any minutes the past few games so is likely to be off the pace, and a central midfielder playing on the right wing. That many changes is likely to disrupt things. And disrupt things it did. We didn't have any cohesion at all, little or no movement from midfield, coupled with no creativity or drive from the midfield either (apart from Pienaar), the forwards struggled to hold the ball up (Jelavic was dropping too deep, and was even further back than Gibson at one point!), and the defence was an utter shambles, quite what the fuck Distin and Heitinga were doing for their goal I have no idea. Honestly, the only positive I could find in that first half was Pienaar. He always looked to take the ball forward; if there wasn't a pass on to one of our players then he'd drive forward with the ball and try and make something happen or win a free-kick in a good position for us.

 

Second half we were much better. The defence was by no means great but it didn't look as shambolic as in the first half, Gibson got on the ball more ad gave us the composure that had been lacking in the first half, Osman supported Pienaar in the creative spark stakes and had a fabulous half, Anichebe looked confident and a handful (after he scored), Jelavic stayed on the shoulder of their defence more and looked a danger and could have gotten himself a goal or two. I wouldn't say we were at our fluid best, or even close to it tbh, but we looked more of a unit, and that we could get back into the game. And get back into the game we did with a brilliant header from Anichebe after a quality delivery from Pienaar. That gave us a massive lift and we were all over them and then they (wrongly) had a man sent off and we pushed our advantage to the max and after some neat interlinking play from Osman and Pienaar we got our noses in front. Then we had our own turn to be on the end of Anthony Taylor's shitty stick, but fortunately it came too late for West Ham to do anything to get back in the game.

 

I don't know if it's right but I heard that the hearing for the appeals would take place on Christmas Eve, so if we win our appeal Gibson would be available for the Boxing Day game.

 

 

Howard - Didn't have a lot to do and couldn't have done a thing about their goal. I thought he commanded his area fairly well for a change too.

 

 

Jagielka - He was always willing to get forward but, unfortunately, his crossing was as accurate as his hoof balls. I thought he did very well defensively when you consider that for most of the game he had to cover for the awful Heitinga.

 

Heitinga & Distin - Bloody hell they were shite for much of this game. The pair of them were at fault for their goal. Distin for being hopelessly out of position and then diving in for a ball that he was never going to get anywhere near, and then Heitinga for literally doing nothing to stop Cole! The pair of them could have cost us another goal in the second half too. Heitinga totally backed off their attacking player and let them put the ball across our box, and Distin decided to go to no one and left two free players. One of which got the ball (Maiga I think) but fortunately Distin somewhat redeemed himself by putting a block in.

 

Baines - We didn't see an awful lot from him in an attacking sense, which may be because Distin was having a poor game and he felt he needed to be cautious. But even when he did get forward, once again, his delivery wasn't very good. I can only remember him putting one decent ball into the box all game long. That being said, he did play a role in our equaliser.

 

 

Osman - Apart from a couple of flashes in the first half I thought he was as anonymous as he has been for the past few weeks. However, in the second half I thought he was fantastic and played a massive role in getting us the three points. Now we had two players pulling the strings and made all the difference. It gave West Ham another player to worry about and it played dividends. He was a key player and showed it perfectly with the role he played in our second goal. His quick feet and ability to keep the ball tight to his feet when he's running made that goal. If he'd played like this from the off then he'd have been my MOTM.

 

Neville - Really didn't notice him throughout the game.

 

Gibson - Like Neville I didn't notice him in the first half, but in the second half he got his foot on the ball more and spread the ball well for us.

 

Pienaar - I really dread to think just how bad that first half would have been if he'd not been on his game. He was the only one looking to be positive, the only one providing any sort of movement, and he played intelligently i.e. winning clever free-kicks in good areas for us. I don't mean diving, but he drove into dangerous areas where the West Ham players had to bring him down to stop him making progress. He continued on in a similar vein in the second half and a big reason why we got the victory. He put in a brilliant ball for Anichebe to head home, and got himself a goal too (lucky as it was). My MOTM.

 

 

Anichebe - Before he scored I thought he'd been having a poor game. But after he scored he really seemed to grow in confidence. His first touch improved, he was willing to hustle and bustle where before he'd looked disinterested, and he looked a threat. And what a brilliant header it was as well. It wasn't a case of him just getting his head to it and hoping for the best, he knew exactly what he was doing and got it spot on.

 

Jelavic - I don't think I could have been any more disappointed with him on his first half showing. Worryingly he was reminding me of Saha because of how deep he was playing, and a lack of effort. But, while he wasn't exactly brilliant in the second half, there were some positives to take out of his performance. For one, he played further up the pitch and put himself a position for chances to fall to him. He really should have buried one of them and another was blocked excellently by a West Ham defender (unsurprisingly missed by the ref/linesman). Secondly, he played a lot more on the shoulder of the West Ham defenders and looked very dangerous doing it. A combination of him going to early and midfielders laying the ball off too late meant he didn't get an opportunity at goal through this method. If we keep playing to him that way and get it right it will be very fruitful, IMO.

[Zoo]

The referee in the Chelsea vs. Aston Villa game is carrying a hamstring injury and looks likely to come off, the 4th official is the guy that was in charge yesterday at Upton Park, will be interesting to see how many players finish the game if he comes on to officiate.

[Dalziel Kane]

The referee in the Chelsea vs. Aston Villa game is carrying a hamstring injury and looks likely to come off, the 4th official is the guy that was in charge yesterday at Upton Park, will be interesting to see how many players finish the game if he comes on to officiate.

 

Look at the attention whoring !

 

I saw the highlights last night, or in other words, our game and nothing more, and on second was it, couldn't quite believe that, but caught all the relevant details that needed to be seen, from the Jelavic poor game, to match official further incompetence, to missed chances at both ends that could have seen a final outcome with anything.

 

Once again, yes they had players out, but it's still a fine result for us, and it pushes them further down the league and hopefully back to the Championship League by end of season if other clubs follow on, and despite a hostile and noisy crowd and intimidating venue, we got the job done, the referee did neither side any favors, but how their player was sent off for what he did, only the official knows. Gibson also, innocuous enough challenge, but what goes for one player, has to go for the other. If their player had stayed on, and the referee done the right thing with a caution, than Gibson also would have been allowed to continue, and both teams would have finished with 11 men, but what's done is done.

 

Don't know what's happened to Jelavic after that fine end of season, really disappointing for the kid at the half way stage of the season. But it was a good win and I was pleased enough. If only Liverpool had lost as well, It would have been so much better, but you can't have your cake and eat it etc.

[Guest]

Considering the team we had out gotta look at it as three points taken and draw a line under it. We should have too much for Wigan which will give us a boost against the Shandy drinkers and the fat waiter

[Pearso]

At least Jelavic is getting to decent positions and having the chance to score. Saha in his latter stages had one half chance per game at best and he usually kicked the ground and missed the ball. I'd be really worried if he wasn't seeing any chances at all.

[Romey 1878]

Dermot Gallagher says both reds were right and any appeals will be rejected.

[Quinn31]

Dermot Gallagher says both reds were right and any appeals will be rejected.

Then let's as a club sue Anthony Taylor for damages in civil court? I'd love to see a chairman sue a referee.

 

 

*Note* I realize the unrealistic nature of what I proposed. Only being half-serious.

Edited December 24, 2012 by Quinn31

[Sideliner]

watched them closely against WestBrom last week - 0-0 affair -

WeasBrom was the better side on the pitch but WestHam crowded them off the ball all over the field by applying aggressive defense in numbers giving you very little space to play attractive football -

WestBrom tried the long ball but without much success - with all our small players the long ball option is not really an option for Saturday -

they are certainly going to hit us with the long ball - hope we play our best tall defenders -

we should hit them with 2 strikers up front because their crowded defense makes it easy to isolate a single striker but will spread them if we attack two pronged -

when last have we seen a well struck goal from distance by an Everton striker? we seem to pass or squeeze most of our goals -

i just want to congratulate David Moyes for his brave decision to pick his team for WestHam on tactical grounds and not on historical form -

i firmly beleive in the principle of horses for courses - there is no such thing as a best team for all games - it all depends who you are facing -

his selection was very unpopular but in the end very successfull!! What more do we want ?

[Quinn31]

i just want to congratulate David Moyes for his brave decision to pick his team for WestHam on tactical grounds and not on historical form -

i firmly beleive in the principle of horses for courses - there is no such thing as a best team for all games - it all depends who you are facing -

his selection was very unpopular but in the end very successfull!! What more do we want ?

Agree with this in full. For example, look at Norwich last year. Paul Lambert switched it up every game depending upon the team he was playing, and in part because of this, guided a team predicted to finish 20th to a 14th place finish, well above relegation.