seve Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 but when its gone past all them you say is not his job to pick it up I agree with strengthening the back four but I don't get don't blame tim whatever you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 but when its gone past all them you say is not his job to pick it up I agree with strengthening the back four but I don't get don't blame tim whatever you do. This example is just wrong to point fingers. There are 5 players who could've prevented that goal. Howard is one of them, but if you were going to put them in order of responsible, he is 4th for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seve Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 the one thing I can say without contradiction is that in my 55 years watching football this is the worst set of goalkeepers world wide I have ever seen, and its not the ball it does not swerve from corners or a lot of crosses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seve Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 I love the example its wrong to point fingers but you did naming everyone else before it got to the 6 yard box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 I love the example its wrong to point fingers but you did naming everyone else before it got to the 6 yard box. Because you seem to think there was only 1 player who could've done anything about it, seemingly blinded by your obsession with Howard! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seve Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 no I blame them all coleman for not stoping the cross 2 centre backs for letting it get across the 6 yard area Osman for not tracking back and of course tim something you for some reason don't want to do, its not having a pop at just tim but you seam to stop when you get to him.now if im missing something tell me but I don't see why we can not criticise him ?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 no I blame them all coleman for not stoping the cross 2 centre backs for letting it get across the 6 yard area Osman for not tracking back and of course tim something you for some reason don't want to do, its not having a pop at just tim but you seam to stop when you get to him.now if im missing something tell me but I don't see why we can not criticise him ?. I have held him partially accountable, what are you talking about?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seve Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 I think we should agree to disagree on this one and move on, wot do you think about Curtis davis as centre back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 I think we should agree to disagree on this one and move on, wot do you think about Curtis davis as centre back. Think I mentioned in the other thread http://www.toffeetalk.com/index.php?/topic/26550-goalkeepers/?p=422768 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 This is surely a wind-up because there are definitely more pressing problems in other positions that need addressing. I know it's early, but I have a feeling our CB pairing is what's going to cost us some games this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Angel Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 This is surely a wind-up because there are definitely more pressing problems in other positions that need addressing. I know it's early, but I have a feeling our CB pairing is what's going to cost us some games this season. Yes, but ifor they had a yank flag sticking out of there arses then you'd probably say the defense was fine also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 Yes, but ifor they had a yank flag sticking out of there arses then you'd probably say the defense was fine also. Hahaha. USA, baby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 Yes, but ifor they had a yank flag sticking out of there arses then you'd probably say the defense was fine also. Very true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 Very true. But they don't. So I won't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 But they don't. So I won't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle. He is a good keeper overall, certainly not without faults and he falls into the category below the world class keepers with a hell of a lot of others. Some are better at some things than others but in terms of overall ability they are very similar. In the premier league I would only put Courtois (based on roughly 6-7 games I have seen of him)and Lloris as clear of him with maybe Vorm and in there too (although I havent seen much of him in the last 12 months). The rest are all on a pretty similar level in that they are capable of world class moments but make one too many errors and this is the category Howard falls into IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle. He is a good keeper overall, certainly not without faults and he falls into the category below the world class keepers with a hell of a lot of others. Some are better at some things than others but in terms of overall ability they are very similar. In the premier league I would only put Courtois (based on roughly 6-7 games I have seen of him)and Lloris as clear of him with maybe Vorm and in there too (although I havent seen much of him in the last 12 months). The rest are all on a pretty similar level in that they are capable of world class moments but make one too many errors and this is the category Howard falls into IMO. No Cech ? He's only 32 and arguably still has his best years ahead of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 No Cech ? He's only 32 and arguably still has his best years ahead of him. I haven't really rated him since he came back from the fractured skull. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_E Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 I'd definitely have De Gea, Lloris, Courtois and Cech before Howard. That's about it in the PL though. Rather have Howard than Vorm. Maybe I'd prefer Begovic as well and he does look very good, but he usually plays behind a deep sitting defense in Stoke and so he isn't really asked to do some of the things we ask our keeper to do. Not saying he couldn't do it, just that I've not really seen it from him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 I haven't really rated him since he came back from the fractured skull. He's still a fantastic keeper though and much better than Howard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 No Cech ? He's only 32 and arguably still has his best years ahead of him. He isn't at the same level he used to be and he doesn't command his area like he used to either. Still a very good keeper but not at the very highest level now. Still arguably better than Howard I suppose but it's 6 of one and half a dozen of the other for me. I'd definitely have De Gea, Lloris, Courtois and Cech before Howard. That's about it in the PL though. Rather have Howard than Vorm. Maybe I'd prefer Begovic as well and he does look very good, but he usually plays behind a deep sitting defense in Stoke and so he isn't really asked to do some of the things we ask our keeper to do. Not saying he couldn't do it, just that I've not really seen it from him. I'm still not convinced by De Gea in terms of his command of his area or his anticipation off his line. He is probably the best shot stopper in the league though. I have never really seen much of Begovic. I think he is a steady keeper without doing anything flashy and I don't know he would cope at a big club playing possession football. He might thrive, I just haven't seen him. For Vorm I thought he was excellent when he first came over, the perfect keeper for a team like Swansea but I don't know what's happened to him recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seve Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 sadly I think we will stick with wot we got regards keepers, for financial reasons we sell a lot of merchandise in usa they believe any old hype and also I think we have spent all our money in one shop. its not a good reason for sticking with someone though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 sadly I think we will stick with wot we got regards keepers, for financial reasons we sell a lot of merchandise in usa they believe any old hype and also I think we have spent all our money in one shop. its not a good reason for sticking with someone though. I think you've allowed yourself to become far more critical of Howard than logic should allow. He cost £3m has done a fine job for the past 8 years now. If we had a £100m transfer kitty I would maybe look at another keeper if they were far and away better. As it stands, I think this thread is a little harsh. Toffee_in_LA, Sibdane, Matt and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 Incidently Howard was second highest rated keeper last year on Squawka stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 Incidently Howard was second highest rated keeper last year on Squawka stats. He did have a really good season last season to be fair which is why I'm happy thst he's getting another season . Hopefully he can push on from it and carry on the way he has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 Incidently Howard was second highest rated keeper last year on Squawka stats. But what about that Arsenal goal? And the Chelsea one last season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 But what about that Arsenal goal? And the Chelsea one last season? One swallow doesn't make a summer Matt. Lets hope he carries on like he finished last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 One swallow doesn't make a summer Matt. Lets hope he carries on like he finished last season. Usually that expression relates to the "positive" being the exception to the rule. Howard makes more positive contributions than negatives. Matt, Sibdane and Quinn31 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 One swallow doesn't make a summer Matt. Lets hope he carries on like he finished last season. How about the majority of his seasons with us, including a season which saw him break the record for cleansheets, better than Martyn, Southall... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 How about the majority of his seasons with us, including a season which saw him break the record for cleansheets, better than Martyn, Southall... What I'm saying is last season he virtually eradicated the silly mistakes he's prone to making (and he is prone to them) he was much more solid in his all round game. He's always been a great shot stopper nobody can deny that but last season his concentration seemed so much better as did his decision making. Does that come with age? Probably and I'm hoping he can carry that on this season. He did keep all those clean sheets but as some have pointed out here the goals he concedes is partly the defence in front . Then the same has to be said about the clean sheets he kept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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