AlbanyNYToffee

Please stop posting in this thread unless it's a sale rumor. Every time I see it bolded I'm filled with that excitement only to be let down. Heart can't take it anymore.

Tbf Maguire is absolute rubbish haha

Had a similar thought. I wonder if Cornet was a red herring who we used as leverage to get McNeil for less. Cornet seems likely to end up in London.

Don't care about his sporting merits or lack thereof, we'll be divided on what he brings to the team. The above makes this an absolute no for me. He's certainly not good enough for me to consider changing my moral compass haha. As i said before loved him when he was here and he never exhibited this behavior.

Haha. I'm not expecting to sell anyone, just throwing out some clubs who might be interested. I do think we can realistically loan 1-2 of the above to at least get rid of their wages for the season.

Also this is purely speculative but in looking at who we're trying to get rid, I was thinking about possible clubs: Keane - contract 2025 - Fulham? Celtic might need one more CB? MLS can put together a decent wage packet nowadays. Mina - contract 2023 - turkish or saudi club on loan for the year? He seems important in the dressing room not sure it's worth it. Holgate - contract 2025 - doesn't strike me as someone looking to leave UK - perhaps Brighton or Rangers? Also Fulham or even West Ham, they're looking for a CB. Gomes - contract 2024 - grew up in Benfica system. Also Turkey/Saudi where high wages can be paid. Is it remotely possible Brands would be interested at PSV? One of the relegation contenders in Spain - Mallorca/Valladolid or Girona which is owned by City Football Group. Davies - contract 2023 - pick any championship club you'd like. Gbamin - contract 2024 - had success in Germany and France. I'd lean towards France. His former coach at Lens is now at Nantes, why not? and his coach at Mainz is now at Hertha. Dele - contract 2024 - lost on this one. Would he even be willing to go abroad? If not he's a poisoned chalice we're stuck with if he doesn't turn things around. Rondon - contract 2023 - Turkey/Saudi/MLS/Brazil. Lastly in looking at 2023s the clearout continues: Begovic, Mina, Nkounkou, Seamus, Allan, Gordon (will sign new deal), Davies, Townsend, Rondon.

Absolutely spot on here. We have no money. These 4 make us significantly better, and by that I mean maybe, just maybe we could get top half of the table. Anyone looking for more than that this year is insane. We survived the relegation we deserved and now we have to build intelligently over the next 3 years. We can piss and moan all we want about how many times we've had to say that, and it's true, but this is still our reality. Cornet and Belotti are the best we can do for cover and Winks/Gilmour add options to the midfield. Right now we have none. Somehow get Keane and Gomes sold and we've done all we can do.

Major minority here. I really like it.

Anything is better than Kohler. My friends (mostly Man Utd fans) always have a laugh about them having a toilet sponsor on their shirt considering what they've become.

Anybody heard who it is?

Haha sorry. Usually so far behind on here with the puns/banter. Had to give this one a go.

The little blue pill is generic now, so much cheaper.

Branthwaite only name (I think) missing from the traveling squad. Either imminent loan or injury we didn't know about.

Agreed across the board

The momentum is certainly gaining but I've been wondering this whole time if the agreement will be for January. Make sure he gets the minutes he needs leading up to the world cup and then move on afterwards. Also I don't see how Chelsea makes sense. They're at the finish line with sterling and already have pulisic, werner, havertz, ziyech, hudson-odoi and mount, in no particular order.

Most of us are being naive if we think we know enough to comment on a player's ability. I'm always much more interested in price, position, age, leverage. Assuming these rumors are actually true and Frank is in fact on board here I actually think this is much different from Bolasie, Siggy, Iwobi etc. We're not panic buying or desperate for the next best thing. Spurs have brought in Bissouma already so we can get Winks for less or on loan. I'm not sure I agree with those who think this is the waste of a loan. Who else would we use it on? It's not like world beaters are available. Lastly, he'll also be hugely motivated to try and sneak into the world cup discussion for England.

I never posted after the Palace game because I couldn't find the words without typing a novel. I will say of everything that will stick with me from that night Moshiri's absence is near top of the list. I was done with him that night, and quite frankly I know now he was done with us.

When Everton majority shareholder Farhad Moshiri sat down with a US consortium in March, it was initially with a view to discussing investment opportunities for the club’s new stadium development. With the project on the city’s waterfront gathering pace, Moshiri was looking to secure a loan. After sustained investment since his arrival in 2016, he accepted others needed to come on board to take the scheme forward. But what started as a search for stadium investment has spiralled into something else altogether in recent months. Multiple parties are understood to be interested in purchasing Everton, with a consortium led by former Chelsea and Manchester United chief Peter Kenyon agreeing an exclusivity deal. Moshiri may retain a minority stake when all is said and done but the general feeling in the football industry is that the club are now very much up for sale. Plenty of questions remain. Would the new owners front the money for Everton’s stadium development or look to secure a loan in the private sector? Would they be willing to allow Moshiri to stay in a position of relative power? But one of the most important surrounds the price. How much are Everton actually worth? In 2016, Moshiri’s investment saw the club valued at £175 million. Six years later, the numbers have more than doubled. Despite a relegation scare on the pitch last season and three successive years of heavy losses off it, totalling close to £400 million, some reports have suggested anyone wanting to buy Everton outright would have to pay in the region of £500 million. And that’s before another potential outlay of £500 million on the stadium development. These are eye-watering figures, but do they hold water? The Athletic spoke to a range of industry experts to find out. Valuing a football club is a complex matter, and the subject of much debate. In his role as director of Deloitte’s Sports Business Group, Tim Bridge is frequently consulted on price by prospective buyers and sellers. As he explained to The Athletic earlier this year, there is no one accepted or fool-proof way of assessing a club’s worth. “Compared to other industries, the valuation approach in football is quite immature — we still don’t have a fixed model for doing it,“ Bridge said. “If we were talking about a ‘normal’ company, you would do a discounted cash-flow analysis, where you estimate future cash flows, discount the cost of capital and bring it back to a present-day value. “But most football clubs are not run like normal companies — their revenues are inconsistent and they make losses. There is an intrinsic quality of clubs as community assets and that is why we always come back to revenue multiples as our starting point. “We typically use a revenue multiple of 1.5 to 2.0 for a mid-tier Premier League club. We’d then look at net assets, the club’s brand value and the stadium. It is more art than science but starting with a revenue multiple makes the most sense.” Based on reported revenue of £193 million in their 2021 accounts, Deloitte’s multiple would see Everton initially valued somewhere between £300 million and £400 million — quite a way off some of the figures doing the rounds. Football finance expert Kieran Maguire agrees that some of the higher figures in the media appear “optimistic”. “We’ve just seen Newcastle, with their extra stadium capacity (52,500, compared to just under 40,000 at Goodison Park), go for around £305 million,” Maguire says. “Everton are yet to build their new ground, so I think this is a ‘wish price’ from Moshiri. It’ll be him looking to recoup as much of his investment as he can. Maguire believes the relatively modest capacity at Goodison impacts the value of Everton (Photo: Gareth Copley/Getty Images) “Any new buyer is going to have to find another £500 million for a new stadium. They can either fund that themselves or loan the money but interest rates are going up.” Maguire has worked with fellow football finance expert Dr Tom Markham on a methodology for valuing Premier League clubs. The Markham Multivariate Model, as it is known, uses a fixed set of financial criteria – hard economic data – to come up with a ‘rational’ value for clubs. Based on those 2021 numbers, Markham and Maguire’s model values Everton at just under £300 million when adjusted for the £120 million loss made. Four years ago, Maguire valued Everton around £60 million higher than that figure. But the scale of the club’s losses in the intervening period has taken a toll, at least as far as the model is concerned. “Moshiri has been benevolent but he’s racked up big losses, and this has impacted Everton’s value,” Maguire says. “The key for Everton is finding that sweet spot where they invest smartly and still move forward (on the pitch). “Even qualifying for the Europa League brings in around £40 million to £45 million a year in income. The Champions League is £100 million to £150 million. The valuation I’ve produced is on the basis of Everton not qualifying for Europe in four out of every five seasons. “There’s a drop in Everton’s value in our model from 2018 to 2020, which is all to do with the losses they made after Moshiri’s investment. If the spend had been converted into higher finishes, then the value of the club would have come out a lot higher.” Ultimately, though, clubs are only worth what potential buyers are willing to pay for them. And as the recent £4.25 billion purchase of Chelsea attests, there is still a demand for Premier League clubs, particularly in the US. “It’s still a relatively healthy market, as the Chelsea takeover shows,” Maguire says. “There is a market for Premier League clubs, especially among American investors and those from the Middle East. The new TV deals around the world show the level of interest in the league as a whole. “Very few Premier League clubs are for sale at any one time, so there is more focus on the ones that are available.” It is rare that any top-flight club in England are so actively up for grabs, although many owners are of course open to investment — at the right price. Rarer still that a club such as Everton, one of the founding members of the Premier League and nine-time champions of England, are available. Despite substantial losses and last season’s flirtation with relegation, The Athletic has been told by multiple sources that Everton remain an attractive proposition for US investors. “They are established in the Premier League,” Maguire says. “Everyone in the US has heard of the city of Liverpool in a way they don’t always know other places outside of London so well. “There are long-standing links with the US. Liverpool has its own airport. That’s attractive to American investors, because they can get there easily. “There’s also a feeling from US investors that Premier League clubs are relatively undervalued compared to NFL franchises and there is room for growth there.” Where some see risk, others sense opportunity. Jordan Gardner is an American sports executive who is currently chairman and co-owner of Danish second division side Helsingor. He is not surprised his countrymen are interested in the opportunity of investing in Everton, even if the club’s relegation scare last season raises the risk factor for potential new owners. Not too far away from Goodison at Burnley, of course, that risk has become a reality 18 months after the takeover by US firm ALK Capital. “Everton will have been an attractive prospect in the past, and they still are,” Gardner says. “The brand is still strong and it’s from a variety of angles that you can say they’re still an attractive investment. “They’re in a good location, have a good fanbase and history. I’d say the club could be worth £500 million. “But at the same time, people know that last season they just stayed in the division and alongside that the talk in investor circles is of a club being run badly. “Most Americans prefer to go to bigger clubs in the established top six because generally, unless something really goes wrong, they don’t have to worry about relegation. Americans aren’t familiar with the relegation risk in their own sports and they don’t like it from an investment point of view. “So there’s risk with Everton, definitely. They were nearly down last season and could always be in a similarly difficult position next season.” Staying up was crucial for Everton on and off the pitch (Photo: Tony McArdle/Everton FC via Getty Images) Gardner thinks the clamour to be involved at clubs in Europe’s big domestic leagues will not be subsiding any time soon, despite the feeling that some US investors are forking out more than they should be. “I think a lot of Americans are coming to the UK and over-paying,” he says. “They are so desperate to get into Premier League football that they are spending whatever it takes. “There is a lot of wishing and hoping in the industry too. The Americans who have just bought Lyon (US businessman and Crystal Palace shareholder John Textor bought a majority stake in the Ligue 1 club on Tuesday) are talking about competing with Paris Saint-Germain for trophies next season. “When you’re investing the big money then, of course, you’ll be optimistic and talk about things like that or getting back into Europe. “You can talk big about Everton. Are they going to qualify for Europe next season? Or are they better incrementally improving on their league position and carrying on building their stadium? “Whatever way you look at it, it’s still true that, for US investors, Premier League clubs are undervalued. Generally, there’s a feeling among US investors that European football clubs are not maximising revenue and can be run unprofessionally, where they may benefit from being run more strongly in a commercial sense.” Football Benchmark is a financial consultancy specialising in the game which, as part of its data analysis, produces an annual report valuing clubs it considers to be among Europe’s elite. For its estimate, it works off a club’s enterprise value (EV). This is considered to be the sum of the market value of the owners’ equity, plus total debt, less cash and cash equivalents — calculated via a revenue multiple approach. It also considers five “pillars of value” when assessing clubs; profitability, popularity, sporting potential, broadcasting rights and stadium ownership. This year’s report, which was published last month and makes reference to valuations on January 1 2022, ranks Everton 22nd on the list of 32 clubs with a value of £379 million. That means they are valued above last season’s Europa League winners Eintracht Frankfurt (£361 million) and its Europa Conference League champions Roma (£347 million) as well as Sevilla, who have lifted the UEFA Cup/Europa League six times (£328 million). According to the report, Everton’s enterprise value has reduced by just one per cent since 2016. Antonio Di Cianni, head of football economics at Football Benchmark, says owning current stadium Goodison and its forthcoming replacement at Bramley-Moore Dock boosts the club’s enterprise value. “For someone selling Everton, you’d want to include some of the future benefits of the new stadium into the price during negotiations for a better deal,” Di Cianni says. “And, for example, from a buyer’s perspective that can be helpful if your intention is to sell the club in, say, three to five years. “But staying in the Premier League was absolutely vital. If they had gone into the Championship and lost their share of the top-flight broadcasting revenue and global exposure when they play clubs like Chelsea, Manchester City or Liverpool, Everton’s value would have been hugely damaged.” Everton’s great escape, it would seem, was worth far more than just their supporters’ sweat and tears. Along with the growing lure of English clubs to a queue of wealthy Americans, it could yet trigger a whole new era. For all the complex metrics, though, the price they pay remains to be seen.

Squad for 22/23 right now: GK: Pickford, Begovic, J Virginia, Crellin DEF: Keane, Mina, Holgate, Godfrey, Mykolenko, Coleman, Patterson, Branthwaite, Nkounkou MID: Allan, Doucoure, Gomes, Davies, Gbamin, Dele FWD: DCL, Richarlison, Gray, Townsend, Gordon, Iwobi, Rondon After convincing myself we needed nearly 10 in and 10 out I've softened a bit and think 3 in and 3 out could transform us. Needs to go: Keane/Holgate/Mina pick one, Gomes, Gbamin Need to sign: Starting RB, Starting CB, Starting #8 All of this assuming we keep Richarlison and DCL of course. If we can find a #6 and #10 on loan all the better but considering FFP I don't think we're going to pay many transfer fees this summer.

As a yank i'm fascinated by the UK's moral high ground on gambling. And i mean that sincerely. Over here I can count on one hand (out of what some 300 million people) the number of people who would bat an eye at a gambling sponsorship. As a club we have so few revenue generators I'm all for getting every single quid possible. And they should just put the sponsor on the kids shirt. Most kids won't recognize what it is and those that do it falls on them and their support system to learn/explain the risks associated with gambling. Most are being naive if they think having Stake.com on the front of a kit is going to make the difference between developing a gambling addiction or not. The correlation is close to non-existent. It's interactions with friends/family and personal circumstances that play an enormous role.

Curious if anyone thinks keeping Mina would keep Richarlison happier/from leaving. Personally because I think the answer is yes so I'd rather keep Mina and sell Keane. Building a squad is often about the collective. Not to mention Mina is just a far better footballer and his value right now is pretty close to as low as it can get.

Perfectly said. Loved him when he was here. Now I'm embarrassed he ever represented our club.

Everton 1 - 0 Brentford Richarlison

Gotta be rondon or DCL for gray. Come on Frank.

Going to try my absolute best to get to Baltimore. Supposed to start a family vacation that day, maybe they won't notice I'm gone for 16 hours.