adziom Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 nutmegwolf - Cahill and Osman playing comfortably, knowing their place in the team is secure, This is exactly what I've been feeling recently. Moyes needs to give the players a kick up the arse when they aren't performing. He needs to be bold, drop Ossie for Barkley, drop Saha for Vellios, drop Cahill for Gueye, or whatever. Even if the replacements do no better, at least our "strongest 11" will know they have to earn their place in the side. Then we might see somebody take some responsibility and make something happen going forward rather than blending in and passing it sideways until one of the full backs lump another cross into the box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nutmegwolf203 Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 DM “The expectations are that we should be winning these sort of games. But Stoke have spent money in the transfer market and we haven’t." This is insulting. The laziness of this remark is truly insulting. He should just record that statement for post match interviews. Either try, or leave excuses out of it. Recycling tactics and formations for every match isn't trying in my book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 Guys, it's all very well dropping names in hindsight, but the names being dropped are basically children learning their trade. Does this not give you an insight into the dilemma Moyes faces? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nutmegwolf203 Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 Guys, it's all very well dropping names in hindsight, but the names being dropped are basically children learning their trade. Does this not give you an insight into the dilemma Moyes faces? I was disappointed with the initial team sheet, no hindsight involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adziom Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 Guys, it's all very well dropping names in hindsight, but the names being dropped are basically children learning their trade. Does this not give you an insight into the dilemma Moyes faces? I have every sympathy for Moyes' dilemma, but what's the point in bringing in players like Gueye and Stracqualursi only to warm the bench each week, even while the likes of Cahill and Saha continue to fire blanks? Part of the learning these kids must go through is to learn how to play first team football, and part of their function in the squad is to keep the "first team" players honest. If our first team players can play poorly for weeks on end, and fail to produce, knowing that they won't get dropped, where is the incentive for them to improve their performance and step up to the mark? Judging by today's performance particularly, some of the regular names on the teamsheet need to be reminded of this incentive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Adziom, I tried to answer that for you and it turned in to a lecture, so I stopped. If Moyes thought they were ready, he would pick them. We don't see them every day. Our opinions are uneducated ones in comparison. It's very easy to suggest we drop senior players, but it's not our necks on the line, nor is our business at risk if it goes tits up. Also, if Moyes has a game plan, and those players do what he asks, it might be that he feels they are worthy of selection, where as we look on and wonder what on earth is going on. If it was simple, it would be done. Wouldn't it? A few years ago I was criticized by other fans for daring to suggest we play the kids more often, and drop a few of our stars. How ironic it is that the general consensus now appears to be what was considered out of the question back then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 DM “The expectations are that we should be winning these sort of games. But Stoke have spent money in the transfer market and we haven’t." zzzzzz Ah no! Not the David "I'm a poor bugger on £70k a week but don't expect a win at home agiainst 8-20th opposition" act. I probably tire the lot of you out with my negativity but it's only cos I know what type of evertonian I am, not a better one just that annoying one who is still gutted we didn't get hagi with the Europe ban etc etc. I have a massive agenda against the board but I know for one that moyes is performing way below what he should be, for him to start using stokes money is a joke! They played Europa in the week, that gutless but extremely rich man has shafted us too many times at home of recent. He irritates the shite out of me with his long dour face, if you put up with it - you deserve it. Get our team playing football or piss off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smeghead1 Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 (edited) I feel sorry for Moyes if im totaly honest most prem league managers have a 3 or 5 year plan with what players will be BOUGHT and sold, he has not got a chance of doing that with the current owners and im sorry its just my opinion but he appears to be rapidly becoming Kenwrights scapegoat!! Could any of you do your job if you have no idea what staff you will be working with every January and August?? Its sad that hes been seen in this light as hes never had the chance to show what he can do with any ammoint of money yes hes had money but only after selling a player who was an important member of the squad. Look at Lescott theres a player who would walk into our team any day of the week and Pienaar for gods sakes he didnt see a penny of that money. Really lads i believe hes doing the best job anyone could at the minute he aint the problem its the dross that employs him and, im not sure if this is the correct way to put it, run our club. Edited December 5, 2011 by smeghead1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 I don't feel sorry for any manager who picks up £70k a week and plays negative football regardless of being given a budget of zilch. I had high hopes for him as a manager, in terms of his business organisation and attention to detail he is excellent. Unfortunately as a tactician he is still at the same amateur level he was 10 years ago. Sad to say I don't trust him with the development of Barkley either, any player apart from a defender risks having any spark or creative flair taken from them because he is so "safety first". Does anyone think he encourages players to shoot? I don't. Does anyone think he goes berserk at diagonal hoofs? I don't. Both can result in handing possesion back but only one of them makes me feel like an outcome is a goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Hypothetically speaking, If Moyes was to go/get fired/walked out or whatnot and a new manager came in, does anyone get the impression that Cahill would still start, based purely on his reputation of being a MOTD player? See i've been thinking. We ideally need a manager who will not only make astute loan/purchases but someone who can fully utilise our youth system and bring the youngsters through our academy and into the first team, together!....but what if they came here and continued playing Saha, Cahill and the sorts just to keep them (as senior players) happy? Rather than as we'd wish/hope, play members of the squad because of their form or ability? I'd like to think there's someone out there who could take our current young crop (first teamers and academy players) and encourage them to gel and play attacking, honest and hard working football that compliments their styles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 We were playing great football not too long ago. Had somebody given us Van Persie and Tevez we would probably have won the league, so let's stop thinking Moyes can't do it. He just can't magic things from thin air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Hypothetically speaking, If Moyes was to go/get fired/walked out or whatnot and a new manager came in, does anyone get the impression that Cahill would still start, based purely on his reputation of being a MOTD player? See i've been thinking. We ideally need a manager who will not only make astute loan/purchases but someone who can fully utilise our youth system and bring the youngsters through our academy and into the first team, together!....but what if they came here and continued playing Saha, Cahill and the sorts just to keep them (as senior players) happy? Rather than as we'd wish/hope, play members of the squad because of their form or ability? I'd like to think there's someone out there who could take our current young crop (first teamers and academy players) and encourage them to gel and play attacking, honest and hard working football that compliments their styles. For me there's only 2 managers to pick from; Bilic who would be great for making sure the players earned their place and played 'watchable' football, or Sven who would be a better option transfer and tactics wise. If there is someone that is a managerial hybrid of this, I would be happy for him to take over from Moyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 We were playing great football not too long ago. Had somebody given us Van Persie and Tevez we would probably have won the league, so let's stop thinking Moyes can't do it. He just can't magic things from thin air. I'm trying to think when that was to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus jones Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 For me there's only 2 managers to pick from; Bilic who would be great for making sure the players earned their place and played 'watchable' football, or Sven who would be a better option transfer and tactics wise. If there is someone that is a managerial hybrid of this, I would be happy for him to take over from Moyes. Guidolin, Udinese's manager, the most forward thinking manager in Italy apparently, got them playing the most entertaining football in Italy in nearly 25 years say their national newspapers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 I think Moyes would be much improved if he had a more attack minded number two. Now Round may be like that and Moyes an ingorant shite but I can't see that being the case and I also think we lost abit of "flair" if thats what you'd call it when Irvine left. Who knows but He really needs to freshen things up now and drop players who are not performing I feel like we are turning into England and using the old guard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Guidolin, Udinese's manager, the most forward thinking manager in Italy apparently, got them playing the most entertaining football in Italy in nearly 25 years say their national newspapers. Would he come to Everton? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogsy Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Would he come to Everton? Surely for the weather if nothing else! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Surely for the weather if nothing else! Maybe desperate scouse wives could entice him over Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 I'm trying to think when that was to be honest. End of 09/10 season, hence being fancied by many including SAF to be dark horses as we entered the 10/11 season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus jones Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Would he come to Everton? Have we got £30-40mill to spend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Have we got £30-40mill to spend? Depends who we sell haha... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 It's been a long time since I read anybody blaming the players. That's a pretty good place to start in my book. Also, we need to give Stoke a bit of credit today. It's not like they're shite at defending, and we knew before the game it would be a hard one, especially as there wouldn't be many goals from either team. I thought the ref allowed them to be far too physical today. I think the players have also been given some stick especially on the match day thread, but unfortunately like every manager out there, the buck stops with him. Stoke did defend well, no doubt about it, but we didnt exactly give them any hard questions to answer. I dont remember us getting to the byline, getting through on goal, or even have a clean shot from around the box. Stoke arent that good to shut us down completely like they did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogsy Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 I think the players have also been given some stick especially on the match day thread, but unfortunately like every manager out there, the buck stops with him. Stoke did defend well, no doubt about it, but we didnt exactly give them any hard questions to answer. I dont remember us getting to the byline, getting through on goal, or even have a clean shot from around the box. Stoke arent that good to shut us down completely like they did. Gotta agree whole hearted with this, have read plenty given billy, saha and Cahill grief. But ultimately it's down to the manager how the team plays, he picks the players and sets out the tactics, the players have to do what he says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Gotta agree whole hearted with this, have read plenty given billy, saha and Cahill grief. But ultimately it's down to the manager how the team plays, he picks the players and sets out the tactics, the players have to do what he says. they need to grow some balls (excuse the pun), stand up to him and do what what they do best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogsy Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 they need to grow some balls (excuse the pun), stand up to him and do what what they do best. And then get dropped, maybe certain players should then!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Our striker options: Cahill (over the hill) Saha (over the hill) Vellios (kid) Gueye (kid) Anichebe (injured) McFadden (short term) Straqualursi (not ours) It's not like we have Carlos Tevez but Moyes won't play him. Our strike force is poor. It's a mixture of ageing players and kids. Who should he play next week? Where is the guy who will bag a brace against the gunners? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Our striker options: Cahill (over the hill) Saha (over the hill) Vellios (kid) Gueye (kid) Anichebe (injured) McFadden (short term) Straqualursi (not ours) It's not like we have Carlos Tevez but Moyes won't play him. Our strike force is poor. It's a mixture of ageing players and kids. Who should he play next week? Where is the guy who will bag a brace against the gunners? Didnt realise it was only strikers that scored goals Personally it depends on who is fit for Arsenal, generally a good strong striker would have a field day against the likes of Djorou & Koscielny so I would look towards Vellios. However of late it seems Mertersacker & Vermaelen are the chosen two and I think they would both have the experience and nous to deal with him, so if fit, I would go with Saha and tell him to try and get in behind as well as come short, and make sure we get the midfield up to support him as quickly as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogsy Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Our striker options: Cahill (over the hill) Saha (over the hill) Vellios (kid) Gueye (kid) Anichebe (injured) McFadden (short term) Straqualursi (not ours) It's not like we have Carlos Tevez but Moyes won't play him. Our strike force is poor. It's a mixture of ageing players and kids. Who should he play next week? Where is the guy who will bag a brace against the gunners? Might be nice to maybe I dunno start with two strikers, they might get one each then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 --------------Mo -----Rodwell-----Barkley ----Gueye---------McFadden/Bily ----------Vellios Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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