Moyes

[Hafnia]

 

 

This!

 

We got our customary 12 months out of the Yak and then it was time for him to move on

 

Contrary to what Haf would have you believe its got nothing to do with Moyse's mythical bad record with strikers. The Yak has done the same thing at every club he has ever played for in England and as far as Im aware David Moyes has never been manager at Fulham or Boro

 

Portsmouth, not fulham. That's where aj is currently banging them in. Moyes record with strikers is way below par. Check out yaks stats:-

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/player/_/id/21561/ayegbeni-yakubu?cc=5739

 

GOALSCORER

[Matt]

Portsmouth, not fulham. That's where aj is currently banging them in. Moyes record with strikers is way below par. Check out yaks stats:-

http://soccernet.esp...-yakubu?cc=5739

 

GOALSCORER

[Hafnia]

 

Matt - are you saying yak isn't a goalscorer or you just using emoticons to make that point?

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Portsmouth, not fulham. That's where aj is currently banging them in. Moyes record with strikers is way below par. Check out yaks stats:-

http://soccernet.esp...-yakubu?cc=5739

 

GOALSCORER

 

Yeah thats what I meant, I used to go and watch him play for Pompey so I know first hand what he was like there and the point stilll stands, started off great got fed up so sulked wanting a move and stole wages until he got his way, was that down to Moyes?

[Matt]

Matt - are you saying yak isn't a goalscorer or you just using emoticons to make that point?

no, not denying that he can be a great goal scorer - if he can be arsed.

 

is basically my reaction to 95% of what you say recently.

[marcus jones]

This!

 

We got our customary 12 months out of the Yak and then it was time for him to move on

 

Contrary to what Haf would have you believe its got nothing to do with Moyse's mythical bad record with strikers. The Yak has done the same thing at every club he has ever played for in England and as far as Im aware David Moyes has never been manager at Fulham or Boro

Nail......... Hit............ Head..............

[Bailey]

Ok well theres Howard, Jags, baines, Heitinga (WC finalist), Felli, Bily, Rodwell (technically), Saha (was) & Cahill. Thats the majority of our starting line-up that are full internationals, and the majority deservidely so.

 

Bailey you said "World Class Internationals" there is a bit of a difference between somebody being an International and them being world class.

 

Just about every team in the Premiership can boast a squad full of Internationals

 

My point about The Shite is despite the millions that they have spent and how bad our start to the season has been they are not exactly a million miles ahead of us. We took the game to them in the derby and we were well on top until the Referee interviened so its not really hypothetical.

 

As it was they got lucky and took the points, wins build confidence and so they were up for the games against City and Chelsea. We were on a poor run of results and our confidence was down thats the difference

 

Its much easier to go and have a go against the top teams if you have £120M worth of attacking talent and your tails are up

 

Ok that first bit is fair, Im just meaning to compare the two teams. Both clubs have seasoned international players as well as up and coming players on the fringes, so it terms of the class of the two teams, there isnt a massive difference in my opinion. We might have been on top in the derby but IMO they looked as likely to score as we did, and whilst the red card ended our chances, I dont think you can say that we would have taken the 3 points.

 

 

My argument is that whilst they have spent lots (albeit not very wisely or over the odds for the most part), and whilst I agree they arent that high in the table, the way the team was set up by Dalgeish and the way the players stuck to the game plan was the perfect way to beat the top clubs. I dont believe they won because they had this £120mil, I believe they got the points through the effort and commitment they showed in them games. However, thats not to say that down the line against other clubs, this £120mil worth of players wont win them games because of their talent alone. Moyes' tactics against City and more so Chelsea in the league were near on unforgiveable to me. He showed no intention of trying to win those games and it was only a matter of time until we conceeded. Confident or not, the players we have are better than that and as the result shows, he got it badly wrong on them occasions. I am hoping that when we get these teams at home that we will set up to give the opposition something to think about but I guess we will have to wait and see.

[Dalziel Kane]

This is about Moyes isn't it?

 

I'll only say I've given him the benefit of the doubt before and given my support but am increasingly losing patience by each passing week

 

Nine years now and more and hardly anything to show for it outside of a few very good league finishes, I have nothing against the man as an individual but strongly feel now the time is near to allow someone else to have a go if they could be persuaded to take the job

 

We can't win the league, won't finish again in a European Cup place again any time soon so that leaves the cups and while Moyes is in charge we simply won't win in that department. Hand on heart do you see us winning the FA cup next season, No, today illustrated another inept performance and we have seen before how the club struggles with lower league opposition.

 

By end of next season I won';t shed any tears if Moyes is replaced or walks out. He's had his time and thanks for some great memories but I feel the time is right for a new face to lead us forward.

[Mogsy]

Well after reading Moyes's comments on the everton OS I firmly believe its time to go. He takes no responsibility for his tactics, he says they are a big team, so why not say at half time, "lads keep the ball on the ground a!", our loss was down to our inability to create, well try starting with Barkley and gueye for a change. I think he really needs to start looking at himself and whether he is willing to change his management style, if he doesn't we need new blood in.

[Romey 1878]

Well after reading Moyes's comments on the everton OS I firmly believe its time to go. He takes no responsibility for his tactics, he says they are a big team, so why not say at half time, "lads keep the ball on the ground a!", our loss was down to our inability to create, well try starting with Barkley and gueye for a change. I think he really needs to start looking at himself and whether he is willing to change his management style, if he doesn't we need new blood in.

 

 

Did he say we played well?

[Avinalaff]

This is about Moyes isn't it?

 

I'll only say I've given him the benefit of the doubt before and given my support but am increasingly losing patience by each passing week

 

Nine years now and more and hardly anything to show for it outside of a few very good league finishes, I have nothing against the man as an individual but strongly feel now the time is near to allow someone else to have a go if they could be persuaded to take the job

 

We can't win the league, won't finish again in a European Cup place again any time soon so that leaves the cups and while Moyes is in charge we simply won't win in that department. Hand on heart do you see us winning the FA cup next season, No, today illustrated another inept performance and we have seen before how the club struggles with lower league opposition.

 

By end of next season I won';t shed any tears if Moyes is replaced or walks out. He's had his time and thanks for some great memories but I feel the time is right for a new face to lead us forward.

 

Will winning a trophy make your life complete?

If so, why not support United? If not, why worry so?

 

Why put pressure on a club unlikely to win a trophy, and have expectancies that are unrealistic due to circumstances beyond control of Moyes, or the fans?

 

How many other clubs don't win trophies every season either? Should they all sack their managers too?

 

Moyes has had nothing from Everton since day 1, but has achieved plenty. How many times can he make things happen without required funding?

 

You're asking Moyes to build you a perfect scenario, yet the guy has not been afforded the tools to do the job.

 

What makes you take Moyes for granted now? Is it because he has made your situation comfortable enough that you don't have to worry about relegation any more? Have you considered the possibility that Moyes is currently preventing our inevitable relegation, and another manager may actually get us relegated, rather than achieve better?

 

We started the day in the top 10 with 2 games in hand. We lost to Stoke. So what. Perhaps Moyes should have taken mediocre player X off, and put mediocre player Y on? If he had players to play, I'm fairly sure he wouldn't pick most of the shite he has at his disposal, but players cost money, yet Moyes hasn't been given any. I should remember to complain to my decorator that the glossed front door is shabby, but I'm sure he'll tell me to buy better paint next time.

[Mogsy]

 

 

 

Did he say we played well?

 

Nope, and he didn't say that he got it wrong, again.

[Romey 1878]

Nope, and he didn't say that he got it wrong, again.

 

I expected him to say we played well.

 

He never admits his role when we've played like that. Yes, the players are the most responsible but Moyes has a share of the blame.

[Avinalaff]

I thought we were great in the first half, so it's no surprise no changes were made at half time. When things started to tire out, he made some substitutions. Everybody screamed for Vellios, and Vellios got his chance, as did Straq at the end. He even gave Gueye 10 minutes. Not sure what fans want from Moyes. He's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. Short of playing himself and scoring, not sure what else he could do.

[MikeO]

Moyes has had nothing from Everton since day 1, but has achieved plenty.

 

He's had a few quid in wages hasn't he ?

[Avinalaff]

He's had a few quid in wages hasn't he ?

 

Yeah. Bastard. Sack him.

[EFC-Paul]

I understand where you come from when it comes to Moyes Avin but to just sit back and take mediocrity it is lunacy if we all did that as fans where would the club end up? No Fan,Team,Manager,Chairmen and Board should ever settle for just plugging along

 

I'm not one hunting for Moyes nor do I want him sacked but think he is becoming stale and his negativity is becoming a big worry for me now.

[Avinalaff]

I understand where you come from when it comes to Moyes Avin but to just sit back and take mediocrity it is lunacy if we all did that as fans where would the club end up? No Fan,Team,Manager,Chairmen and Board should ever settle for just plugging along

 

I'm not one hunting for Moyes nor do I want him sacked but think he is becoming stale and his negativity is becoming a big worry for me now.

 

Paul, fans are judging a penniless Moyes, and looking for a change in manager, who will also be penniless.

Has anybody considered that Moyes with money could be quite a success? He is similar to a pub landlord who has to sell cheap beer and dodgy pies to survive, in a pub that needs extensions and a revamp, while the competition in the same street is owned by big breweries, with fancy modern furnishings and premium brand drinks and entertainment. He keeps that old dive in business, yet some of the punters start to take him for granted, and think it's his fault the pool table isn't level, and the toilets have cheap paper. They think a new manager will pull a better pint. The likelihood is it will be the same old beer under another manager, but the ashtrays won't get cleaned as much, and the bogs will start to stink of piss. At least Moyes has experience, loyalty, and dedication, and when he eventually calls last orders, you'll all wish you'd gotten your drinks in, rather than moan that your drink had no umberella in it.

[EFC-Paul]

Haha I like your analogies very good mate

 

I totally agree with your point I honestly do He has done a great job in recent years with very little resources but then once I've digested it I get abit pissed off at how things are going and sway to a similar opinion to Haf in some respects.

 

He is deadly negative most of the time and doesn't seem to see the obvious at times and sticks with systems/players that simply are not working.

 

I'm really sat on the fence "not literally" before some smart arse says somthing when it comes to Moyes but more so the Club these days.

[FanchesterCity]

I'm going to have to give you the objective and impartial truth:

 

1) He's hardly spent a penny compared with almost all clubs in the last 5 years

2) His results have been significantly better than 2/3 of the other clubs

3) Everton can attract better players than the very bottom, low spending clubs (meaning they are at a slight advantage in getting the players)

4) Everton - great club, great history, good team - but they can't perform miracles.

 

Pounds / Points ration for Everton is probably the best in the country.

 

Moyes is doing a fine job. The only odd thing is why he's stuck around for so long. We don't KNOW what he'd be like with big money - some managers seemed destined to work best with little money and troubled circumstances. It would be nice to see what he can do with money. Sadly, when (if) the money men come, they'll bring in a new man. So we'll never get to know at Everton.

[Mogsy]

I'm going to have to give you the objective and impartial truth:

 

1) He's hardly spent a penny compared with almost all clubs in the last 5 years

2) His results have been significantly better than 2/3 of the other clubs

3) Everton can attract better players than the very bottom, low spending clubs (meaning they are at a slight advantage in getting the players)

4) Everton - great club, great history, good team - but they can't perform miracles.

 

Pounds / Points ration for Everton is probably the best in the country.

 

Moyes is doing a fine job. The only odd thing is why he's stuck around for so long. We don't KNOW what he'd be like with big money - some managers seemed destined to work best with little money and troubled circumstances. It would be nice to see what he can do with money. Sadly, when (if) the money men come, they'll bring in a new man. So we'll never get to know at Everton.

 

So why then does he insist on playing 4-5-1 at home not 4-4-2 or 4-3-3, why doesn't he play Barkley, gueye, why when we are behind does he take off one striker and replace him with another? Don't think any of those are down to lack of money! Moyes has done a fine job, but not anymore. He has run out of ideas. and yes you could say if we had money we could change things, but when I see Barkley not starting, one up front continually then with all the money in the world Moyes would still pick a negative formation/team!

[adziom]

Let's face it, as long as Kenwright is in charge, Moyes will stay. I think he's done a great job for us, but in the last couple of seasons he has seemed to take on some very negative tactics. This year's visit to City was disappointing as many people have moaned about earlier in this thread.

 

All Moyes can do though is knuckle down, hold tight and wait for the club to get out of its mess behind the scenes, and that's all we can do as well. As long as we lack the money to bring in creative players like Donovan, Pienaar, Arteta, Manuel Fernandes and Gravesen again, we can only rely on Coleman, Ossie and Drenthe to come up with the goods. A different manager isn't suddenly going to transform the resources we have at our disposal, unfortunately.

[Mogsy]

Let's face it, as long as Kenwright is in charge, Moyes will stay. I think he's done a great job for us, but in the last couple of seasons he has seemed to take on some very negative tactics. This year's visit to City was disappointing as many people have moaned about earlier in this thread.

 

All Moyes can do though is knuckle down, hold tight and wait for the club to get out of its mess behind the scenes, and that's all we can do as well. As long as we lack the money to bring in creative players like Donovan, Pienaar, Arteta, Manuel Fernandes and Gravesen again, we can only rely on Coleman, Ossie and Drenthe to come up with the goods. A different manager isn't suddenly going to transform the resources we have at our disposal, unfortunately.

 

Yeah but my point is that he's not using all the resources at his disposal.

[adziom]

I was replying to the general conversation more than to anyone in particular mogsy, but I agree with you. Moyes' team selections are tedious to say the least. It seems pointless even bothering to name a subs bench when he is so reluctant to utilise his subs, as if he doesn't have any faith in them to impact on the game. I would love to see a few fresh names on the teamsheet next week, Gueye, Barkley, even Stracqualursi, you name it, but my overall opinion of DM is that he's the best we could get right now. Maybe a fresh approach and some rotation would be handy in the short term but in the long run, our squad still isn't good enough to do much better than we are now.

[Bailey]

I thought we were great in the first half, so it's no surprise no changes were made at half time. When things started to tire out, he made some substitutions. Everybody screamed for Vellios, and Vellios got his chance, as did Straq at the end. He even gave Gueye 10 minutes. Not sure what fans want from Moyes. He's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. Short of playing himself and scoring, not sure what else he could do.

 

We certainly started brightly, and I genuinely thought we were going to batter them but after the first 20minutes you could see where the game was heading. I can understand Moyes not changing personnell at half time, but surely he should have told them to try and play the ball into the box, rather than cross and stop with these pointless long diagonal balls which Stoke mopped up everytime. Its no surprise Vellios struggled because the Stoke defenders were always going to stop him from playing, they are bigger, stronger and more experienced than him especially when the majority of the service was lumped up/crossed into him. Moyes didnt have much choice to play him, so its not his fault, but its also not something to use against Vellios.

 

By 60 minutes it was obvious Bily, Cahill, Vellios and to an extent Osman werent doing enough. Thats when the substitions should have been made, when they had time to make an impact. Bringing Gueye on with 10mins to go was a token gesture.

 

Moyes isnt dammed if he does/doesnt, he just didnt seem to understand how not to play against Stoke. He clearly didnt do enough homework on this because we played directly to their strengths and we didnt even pick up Whitehead on the edge of the box SEVERAL times! Everyone bar Moyes seems to know that Stoke are big, strong, organised, good in the air and handy from set pieces. I think I read that we whipped in 33 crosses of which we connected with none of them. Even if Moyes didnt know what Stoke were about, he should have reacted during the game, or used his subsitutions to improve things, when he could see they were going wrong. Instead he brings on Rodwell (moves Osman out wide) to make us even narrower (again plays to Stokes strengths) and then eventually a like for like sub with Straq, and effectively another like for like with Gueye. Its not even like they bundled up front, they all seemed to play in exactly the same positions as the people they replaced, bar Fellaini who started to wonder up field a little more (and subsquently Cahill dropped deeper). In fact the more I think about it the worse it gets. I wish I could get paid £60k to come up with that.

[Mogsy]

I was replying to the general conversation more than to anyone in particular mogsy, but I agree with you. Moyes' team selections are tedious to say the least. It seems pointless even bothering to name a subs bench when he is so reluctant to utilise his subs, as if he doesn't have any faith in them to impact on the game. I would love to see a few fresh names on the teamsheet next week, Gueye, Barkley, even Stracqualursi, you name it, but my overall opinion of DM is that he's the best we could get right now. Maybe a fresh approach and some rotation would be handy in the short term but in the long run, our squad still isn't good enough to do much better than we are now.

 

Yeah I agree with you, but is Moyes the best we can have, when he came to us he had never managed a top flight team, whose to say that we need a proven top flight manager, in his first few years with us we did brilliant, and we had drive and determination in our style of play, but that has totally disappeared. Just because we don't have world class players doesn't mean we can't go out and play with a positive determind fashion, which has to come from the manager firstly!

[Mogsy]

 

 

We certainly started brightly, and I genuinely thought we were going to batter them but after the first 20minutes you could see where the game was heading. I can understand Moyes not changing personnell at half time, but surely he should have told them to try and play the ball into the box, rather than cross and stop with these pointless long diagonal balls which Stoke mopped up everytime. Its no surprise Vellios struggled because the Stoke defenders were always going to stop him from playing, they are bigger, stronger and more experienced than him especially when the majority of the service was lumped up/crossed into him. Moyes didnt have much choice to play him, so its not his fault, but its also not something to use against Vellios.

 

By 60 minutes it was obvious Bily, Cahill, Vellios and to an extent Osman werent doing enough. Thats when the substitions should have been made, when they had time to make an impact. Bringing Gueye on with 10mins to go was a token gesture.

 

Moyes isnt dammed if he does/doesnt, he just didnt seem to understand how not to play against Stoke. He clearly didnt do enough homework on this because we played directly to their strengths and we didnt even pick up Whitehead on the edge of the box SEVERAL times! Everyone bar Moyes seems to know that Stoke are big, strong, organised, good in the air and handy from set pieces. I think I read that we whipped in 33 crosses of which we connected with none of them. Even if Moyes didnt know what Stoke were about, he should have reacted during the game, or used his subsitutions to improve things, when he could see they were going wrong. Instead he brings on Rodwell (moves Osman out wide) to make us even narrower (again plays to Stokes strengths) and then eventually a like for like sub with Straq, and effectively another like for like with Gueye. Its not even like they bundled up front, they all seemed to play in exactly the same positions as the people they replaced, bar Fellaini who started to wonder up field a little more (and subsquently Cahill dropped deeper). In fact the more I think about it the worse it gets. I wish I could get paid £60k to come up with that.

 

This

[Avinalaff]

It's been a long time since I read anybody blaming the players. That's a pretty good place to start in my book.

 

Also, we need to give Stoke a bit of credit today. It's not like they're shite at defending, and we knew before the game it would be a hard one, especially as there wouldn't be many goals from either team. I thought the ref allowed them to be far too physical today.

[MikeO]

DM “The expectations are that we should be winning these sort of games. But Stoke have spent money in the transfer market and we haven’t."

 

 

zzzzzz

[nutmegwolf203]

We certainly started brightly, and I genuinely thought we were going to batter them but after the first 20minutes you could see where the game was heading. I can understand Moyes not changing personnell at half time, but surely he should have told them to try and play the ball into the box, rather than cross and stop with these pointless long diagonal balls which Stoke mopped up everytime. Its no surprise Vellios struggled because the Stoke defenders were always going to stop him from playing, they are bigger, stronger and more experienced than him especially when the majority of the service was lumped up/crossed into him. Moyes didnt have much choice to play him, so its not his fault, but its also not something to use against Vellios.

 

By 60 minutes it was obvious Bily, Cahill, Vellios and to an extent Osman werent doing enough. Thats when the substitions should have been made, when they had time to make an impact. Bringing Gueye on with 10mins to go was a token gesture.

 

Moyes isnt dammed if he does/doesnt, he just didnt seem to understand how not to play against Stoke. He clearly didnt do enough homework on this because we played directly to their strengths and we didnt even pick up Whitehead on the edge of the box SEVERAL times! Everyone bar Moyes seems to know that Stoke are big, strong, organised, good in the air and handy from set pieces. I think I read that we whipped in 33 crosses of which we connected with none of them. Even if Moyes didnt know what Stoke were about, he should have reacted during the game, or used his subsitutions to improve things, when he could see they were going wrong. Instead he brings on Rodwell (moves Osman out wide) to make us even narrower (again plays to Stokes strengths) and then eventually a like for like sub with Straq, and effectively another like for like with Gueye. Its not even like they bundled up front, they all seemed to play in exactly the same positions as the people they replaced, bar Fellaini who started to wonder up field a little more (and subsquently Cahill dropped deeper). In fact the more I think about it the worse it gets. I wish I could get paid £60k to come up with that.

 

 

I feel like this is just it. While I'm trying to respect everyone's opinion and not go crazy thinking about this result...this bit here is like a Moyes profile. Avin is certainly keeping me level headed as I think it's great to be positive, but, Moyes isn't. He simply is not. His tactics are so hard to support. I couldn't imagine what it was like being there today, but the amount of times the camera caught him and Round bantering about what to do as the clocked ticked down, was absolute torture. Sure, people were screaming out for Vellios (I think he deserves it), but he wasn't utilized correctly at all. Cahill isn't skilled enough to be a 'partner' for another striker. He can't spot a pass, doesn't move well off the ball. You could almost give the same assessment to Vellios' play, but he's young, learning, and actually scores. In my opinion he's got something (several things) that Cahill certainly doesn't. Now this is just my opinion, mixed with what I believe to be common sense...after all this huffing and puffing he speaks of, shouldn't DM be held accountable in orchestrating a change? I think accountability is what I'd like to see. Some players have come out to say something like that recently, but Moyes sees no fault in his approach. It just needs some tinkering, and not injuries to force his hand. Cahill and Osman play comfortable, as if their spot is secure and there's no fire from either of them as a result. If Saha is injured, as I've been hearing, Vellios needs to start with someone who makes sense. Cahill is useless, even if he looked at footage from this match he'd know, what he does with that knowledge is up to him. Blaming funds is all we do, can't be bothered with that. There was a way to win today, he just didn't get it right.

 

 

All just my opinion, no offense to anyone, much respect to Moyes, he's just not innovative enough. Gotta be able to bend.