Romey 1878 Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 Surely future ticket sales, tv rights etc are also in the valuation? The future ticket sales and TV rights money that we've lready borrowed against you mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 The future ticket sales and TV rights money that we've lready borrowed against you mean? Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 Exactly. But if the buyer has already paid off the debt it'll no longer be owing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 But if the buyer has already paid off the debt it'll no longer be owing. exactly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 As far as I'm aware we have paid the money out last season for this seasons tv rights etc... So it isn't an asset, which is the point being made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 As far as I'm aware we have paid the money out last season for this seasons tv rights etc... So it isn't an asset, which is the point being made. ok, its a mix of both then, so i apologize (need to eat, getting bitchy). Up until 2012/13 which we borrowed against, this is part of the debt. Following that its an asset. Or am I loco? (could be today, really not on form!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 As far as I'm aware we have paid the money out last season for this seasons tv rights etc... Paid it out where? Unless we've paid it back to whoever we borrowed it from then it's a debt surely? If we've paid it back then it's not a debt and doesn't need paying....and if it's a debt the "buyout" would have settled it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 Paid it out where? Unless we've paid it back to whoever we borrowed it from then it's a debt surely? If we've paid it back then it's not a debt and doesn't need paying....and if it's a debt the "buyout" would have settled it. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 I think the price is high too, but that seems to be the going rate for football clubs. Ironically, if Bill Kenwright can get that price for the club, the buyer isn't the businessman/negotiator needed to steer the club back on track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 I think the price is high too, but that seems to be the going rate for football clubs. Ironically, if Bill Kenwright can get that price for the club, the buyer isn't the businessman/negotiator needed to steer the club back on track. unless hes got more money than sense, which would have to be the case, and can take advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 Paid it out where? Unless we've paid it back to whoever we borrowed it from then it's a debt surely? If we've paid it back then it's not a debt and doesn't need paying....and if it's a debt the "buyout" would have settled it. In my mind the loan is a negative on the P&L - plus the funds have already gone, when the revenue is realised it will be cancelled out £0 balance - it surely therefore can not be classed as part of the "valuation" of the club? That would be double counting it. Maybe it's monday me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 (edited) ok, its a mix of both then, so i apologize (need to eat, getting bitchy). Up until 2012/13 which we borrowed against, this is part of the debt. Following that its an asset. Or am I loco? (could be today, really not on form!) no, tv rights arent an asset. its effectively income. you dont put future income in your accounts, therefore it is not an asset. as the future tv money is not guaranteed (we could get relegated and figures would drop) the same as future season ticket sales are not in the accounts (people could stop going to the match). though the likely earnings would be considered as part of the value of the company, as would projected income for any business, but not as an asset. in fairness with the money being tied up in loans it would be difficult to value them as the value would only become real once the loans are repaid. Paid it out where? Unless we've paid it back to whoever we borrowed it from then it's a debt surely? If we've paid it back then it's not a debt and doesn't need paying....and if it's a debt the "buyout" would have settled it. not necessarily mike, we may want a buyer to come in and clear the debt. in essence a buyer would only have to buy the shares from the shareholder, the company owns the debt. the buyer may decide to make the debt more manageable, restructured and secured by their own personal wealth, rather than pay it off in full. Edited September 12, 2011 by StevO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codders78 Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 what assets would these be? GP is the only fixed asset, the rest is the playing squad. i dont think football clubs are valued at the transfer potential of a player. the players are normally valued by their contracts i believe. so barkely will be valued about three quid (exageration before someone jumps on me) as he will have a very small wage. fellaini only has two years left on a contract worth possibly a couple of million a year. players values are constantly decreasing due to contracts getting shorter by the day. fixed asset wise the club only has GP. and any figure touted about is only for 68% of the club. what assets would these be? GP is the only fixed asset, the rest is the playing squad. There are other aspects, sales and marketing revenue streams as mentioned. If they wipe out the debt the club turns an overall profit so is not an unattractive proposition. Those sales and marketing streams are relatively untapped so there is good expansion there. Goodwill of the business, its current trading partners , ongoing revenue streams eg sponsorship deals, tv rights All this on top of a squad with a total value of £150million? All in all if I had £150mill knocking about I would be beating a path to Bills door and that is with heart and head (maybe a bit more heart). If anyone wants to give me £150mill then I will sort this mess out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 marketing streams? like what? we dont own our own merchandising for the next seven years. the squad value in the transfer market does not completely reflect the value of the players in terms of asset value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonButtle Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 lets be honest its not even about the money, its the fact that Bill seems to have totally run out of ideas, and under him its gone very stale, very quickly, having fresh faces in with new skills and ideas will re-juvinate things as much as new players do when they come into the team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codders78 Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 marketing streams? like what? we dont own our own merchandising for the next seven years. the squad value in the transfer market does not completely reflect the value of the players in terms of asset value. Point taken re marketing, however I feel sure there are untapped revenues or revenues that could be maximised Im not sure I fully understand what you mean in point 2, can you elaborate or am I being a dipshit Having thought about this, Im basing my thoughts on something entirely irrelevent, Im currently adding another small business into my empire, lol and a valuation is being done on a multiple method so my accountant tells me. The amount of monies that you can expect to have available from the business (based upon the past financials) to pay yourself a salary, service any debt, and marklet the business assuming that everything remains status quo after you take over So this would in theory be £0 as Bill takes no money and the club makes no profit. therefore I guess is irrelevent And look at the size of the fucking irrelevent post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 lets be honest its not even about the money, its the fact that Bill seems to have totally run out of ideas, and under him its gone very stale, very quickly, having fresh faces in with new skills and ideas will re-juvinate things as much as new players do when they come into the team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonButtle Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 what, you dont think its gone stale then Matt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 i shall elaborate. for example, Ross Barkley is worth say £20m in the transfer market. but if he earns £5k a week, thats £260,000 over a year. if he has two years on that contract his contract is worth £520,000, but week after week the value of that contract declines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 what, you dont think its gone stale then Matt? not at all! I look at the squad 10 years ago and more or less year on year its improved! We may be thin on the ground numbers wise but what we have now (though not through choice I will concede) is quality not quantity Plus there was yet another deal signed this summer with a Far East company, the worlds fast growing economy, albeit for an initial 'poxy' fee of 1.2m a year, which shows me that there are new things on the horizon that we dont know about in a developing part of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonButtle Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 (edited) not at all! I look at the squad 10 years ago and more or less year on year its improved! We may be thin on the ground numbers wise but what we have now (though not through choice I will concede) is quality not quantity Plus there was yet another deal signed this summer with a Far East company, the worlds fast growing economy, albeit for an initial 'poxy' fee of 1.2m a year, which shows me that there are new things on the horizon that we dont know about in a developing part of the world. whilst i agree that we have quality now, 4 of those quality will probably not be able to continue longer than this season, Saha,Cahill,Distin,and Neville thats 4 out of what is an already theadbare squad, and they are all 1st team players, with no way of replacing them at the moment, and more outgoings looking likely as for the sponsorship deals, this is a bugbear of mine for a long time now, and i remember having an interesting conversation with our old friend "pax" about it, we can make all the record deals we want to, but when United can get someone to sponsor their training kit for more than most of our deals put together, it shows how far behind the rest we really are. Edited September 12, 2011 by theprisoner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 (edited) it would be going to the extreme a bit, though the quality of player has improved, the quantity of player has decreased. do we want a squad of 11 good players and only kids to back it up? the current method needs to stop asap before thats how it end up. the cola a deal is a nice little earner. shame the people in the far east cant buy an everton shirt unless they get it online from evertonfc.com i will say though, if you buy an everton shirt and have it delivered to thailand it is cheaper than buying it in our club shop. £41.95 all in Edited September 12, 2011 by StevO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 whilst i agree that we have quality now, 4 of those quality will probably not be able to continue longer than this season, Saha,Cahill,Distin,and Neville thats 4 out of what is an already theadbare squad, and they are all 1st team players as for the sponsorship deals, this is a bugbear of mine for a long time now, and i remember having an interesting conversation with our old friend "pax" about it, we can make all the record deals we want to, but when United can get someone to sponsor their training kit for more than most of our deals put together, it shows how far behind the rest we really are. Saha yes, but the others have at least this season and another. As for the training kit, were just not a global power like Utd and wont be for at least a 5 years to a decade, and thats assuming we get massive investment from an oil baron! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonButtle Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 it would be going to the extreme a bit, though the quality of player has improved, the quantity of player has decreased. do we want a squad of 11 good players and only kids to back it up? the current method needs to stop asap before thats how it end up. the cola a deal is a nice little earner. shame the people in the far east cant buy an everton shirt unless they get it online from evertonfc.com i read about this the other day on fb, i am quite frankly stunned by this, considering we have a thai sponsor, its bizzare Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonButtle Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 Saha yes, but the others have at least this season and another. As for the training kit, were just not a global power like Utd and wont be for at least a 5 years to a decade, and thats assuming we get massive investment from an oil baron! do you really want another season of watching Neville hoof-ball lol? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 i read about this the other day on fb, i am quite frankly stunned by this, considering we have a thai sponsor, its bizzare spent three weeks there last year. went to bangkok, koh samui, and koh phangan. everton were on the tv on the chang adverts on every as break, pienaar and cahil were on bill boards and on bridges all through out bangkok, but didnt see everton shirts (apart from copies in the markets) man united (i know much bigger than us but less exposure what i saw apart from matches) had a club shop, a bar and restaurant in the city. even sold shirts in the airport. i know they invest heavily out there but it pays off, with our exposure out there we could make plenty im sure. only wore my shirt one day coz we were on tv against vila, and dont like wearing footy shirts on holiday, but all the locals recognised the shirt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 do you really want another season of watching Neville hoof-ball lol? Maybe not as a starter but his impact on the team is a positive one, the other players look up to him, even if he is a bench warmer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 (edited) Maybe not as a starter but his impact on the team is a positive one, the other players look up to him, even if he is a bench warmer. i agree with you on this matt. i think he has a massive positive impact on the players around him. maybe not our best player but a good leader and a very good example of where hard work can get you for our youngsters. edit: with this and the england managers thread we agree on two out of three topics matt. pleasure as always! Edited September 12, 2011 by StevO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 Maybe not as a starter but his impact on the team is a positive one, the other players look up to him, even if he is a bench warmer. His face on Saturday did not portray that of a captain. Dummy was well out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 i agree with you on this matt. i think he has a massive positive impact on the players around him. maybe not our best player but a good leader and a very good example of where hard work can get you for our youngsters. edit: with this and the england managers thread we agree on two out of three topics matt. pleasure as always! always a pleasure mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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