Norwich

[Formby]

Some members should be banned for the garbage they continually spout.

 

Agreed.

[Formby]

Moyes has an attacking footballing team and what does he allow/make them do? Sit back and invite them, this has gotta stop.

 

This.

[LexKing]

So we lost the plot again at half time whatta hell is happening on that break, Again 2p missing

[Sideliner]

Everton Everton - how you managed not to win that one only you and the coach knows - you have just managed to lose my 16 year old son as a supporter - he has gone over to West Brom - i will stay but yesterday was another sad day - we badly lack urgency in all departments - mr Moyes must start having faith in his youngsters because the old guard is stuffing up badly - Jelavic needs a major wake-up call - i would personally drop him for Anichebe at this stage - to call him a striker in his present form is a joke - we cannot carry on drifting - someone must take charge otherwise we will soon be in the bottom half of the table - we have a major uphill battle now - due to our inabillity to beat sides below us - not a good sign - we have to face facts - loyalty has its boundaries - there is a major screw loose at Everton at the moment - we just have to fix it or find someone else to fix it ......

[JoeQuince]

I don't know who you would really want Moyes to sub yesterday.... Hibbert for Heitinga would have been the safest sub to make. He had a bench full of young players and wanted to protect the lead late in the match. Duffy on for ??? was possible, but it would have either meant taking off Jags or Distin or adding a 5th member to the back, which we've seen recently worked soooo well for us at the end of a game. He really didn't have much of a move to make. I was screaming for a sub for a while, too. But, I understand him being fearful to bring on 18-year-old Barkley to be our strong defensive-midfielder, replacing Hitzlsperger, when Barkley is still known to make silly hollywood mistakes.

 

Don't be too hard on Moyes for yesterday. That bench was built to try and win a 0-0 draw, not to conserve a 1-0 lead for 80+ minutes. Without a 2nd earlier goal (which Moyes, unfortunately, can't go out and score for his team), this was always going to be difficult.

[Sideliner]

why did he not replace Jelavic? - who just was not there - and made no impact at all - Velios on with a few minutes to go was too little too late - we must have a plan B - which seems lacking at this stage - some other sides like Liverpool brings on a 17 year old with great success - we must try the youngsters if the old folks get tired or fails to produce

[Romey 1878]

So, once again we only bothered playing for a short period of the game and then went to bits. We turned up for the first 20 or so minutes and that's it. But honestly? I didn't think we were that good even in that period. Sure, we had lots of the ball but it didn't look like we had much idea what the hell we were supposed to do with it. I thought we looked quite flat and slow, and devoid of creativity. Because we were so slow in possession it made it easy for Norwich to hold their shape and just simply follow the ball around the pitch, which clearly frustrated our players and in turn then made them try impossible passes (Pienaar was especially guilty of this) and we'd lose possesson and have to go and win it back only to repeat the same tired motions. In short we were missing a spark, something different. Kevin Mirallas basically. Despite us being below par we took the lead with a beautifully crafted goal and probably could have extended our lead further. But once that first 20 minutes passed we were diabolical. As well as the problems we had in our 'good' period we now decided to forget that Fellaini was suspended and launched the ball forward at every opportunity. I don't think Jelavic won a single aerial ball, the physical side is not in his game whatsoever. So this allowed Norwich to get themselves into the game because they were constantly being gifted the ball. That being said, I don't think Norwich were that much of a threat to us at all. Yes they had chances but I thought we coped well. The defence and goalkeeper, for the most part, dealt with what Norwich threw at us. Distin, Heitinga and Jagielka (he played for like an extra CB) were being fouled by Holt every single time (the ref needs to get his eyes tested) but managed to do quite well up against him. But, when it really mattered our defence (particularly Heitinga) and goalkeeper royally let us down. We have become awful at defending set-pieces from a distance. You can hear the alarm bells going off in our players heads as the ball is launched into the area and they panic and go to pieces. Fuck up one; Heitinga lets his man go, which is criminal for any defender, but especially for someone of his experience. Fuck up two is Tim Howard thinking he's a leaping fucking salmon rather than a goalkeeper. What the actual fuck did he think he was doing with that attempt?! It should have been a comfortable stop to save Heitinga's, and the teams arse. But no, the brainless oaf manages to give away another goal.

 

Our performances just aren't good enough lately. Yes, we've got injury problems but the players coming in aren't bad players and should be performing better than they are even if they can't reach the heights of what our strongest side is capable of. The one positive (I suppose) is that we're beating ourselves rather than have teams shit all over us. So, if we can cut out the silly mistakes we can get our results back to where they should be.

 

In regards to the issues brought up about Moyes after this game; I do think he needs to have a little look at where he went wrong and shoulder some of the blame for the latest mess up (albeit, only a small responsibility IMO). I have no problem with the starting 11 he put it, it was about as good as he could have put out there under the circumstances. Where I do think he went wrong was his use of substitutions, or lack of. The bench was lacking badly in Premier League experience but the players out on the pitch were not up to the job and some of them needed to come off. Pienaar and Jelavic were having awful games, Jelavic in particular was a complete passenger. Hitz was fucked from about the 70 minute mark and was in desperate need to be substituted. We needed fresh legs, we needed players who could run their blood to water for the last 20 minutes and chase everything down and stop Norwich coming at us. We had lots of youth on the bench who would have provided that. Barkley is right up to match speed having spent time out on loan and he'd have been a good substitute. Kennedy would have been a sub that would have made sense too. He's got bags of pace and could have provided us with that something a little different that was lacking in our play, and that up against a tiring Norwich side could have helped us to see the game out. It's like as long as we're winning then Moyes is afraid to change things, and it's something he needs to address in his own mind.

 

 

Howard - He made a couple of really good saves and then let us down badly at the end with his latest fanny of an attempt at a save.

 

 

Jagielka - Unsurprisingly he was no help in an attacking sense but he was solid defensively.

 

Distin & Heitinga - It's extremely frustrating that Heitinga let himself and his team mates down right at the end because I thought the pair of them defended well up against Holt and the referee. They were being manhandled by Holt all game long but managed to shackle him well for most of the game. I don't think Distin put a foot wrong all game tbh.

 

Baines - This was a much improved Baines. I thought he was fantastic the way he bombed up and down the wing. And that run and shot towards the end of the game was pure quality and it really deserved a goal.

 

 

Pienaar - I think he was trying too hard again yesterday. He clearly knows his performances haven't been up to scratch in the past few games and is trying to rectify that, but he's not managing it. Instead of keeping things simple he was trying stupid flicks in impossible situations which kept losing us the ball. When he's on his game those flicks are fine but he's badly out of form right now and just needs to simplify things until he gets flowing again.

 

Osman - Neat and tidy. That's about all there is to say about Osman yesterday.

 

Hitzlsperger - Another decent showing from him I thought. Despite his age I actually think he's probably more mobile than Gibson and finds it easier to go box to box and track people. He was good in possession and didn't try anything too fancy, and his delivery is awesome. Shown by his absolutely perfect ball to Oviedo for our goal. He did, however, tire badly midway through the second half and should have been substituted.

 

Oviedo - A very good first Premier League start from the Costa Rican. He seemed like he was playnig a bit within himself while he finds his feet but once his confidence grows I'm sure he'll show more than the flashes of brilliance he showed yesterday. He was full of pace and worked extremely hard. And showed he's got finesse in his game too with the way he brought Hitzlsperger's ball down on his chest, kept his cool as he ran into the box and played the right ball to Naismith to slot home. He also put in another peachy cross a little later on. My MOTM. If Mirallas is back next game I'd keep Oviedo in and drop Pienaar tbh.

 

 

Naismith - I thought it was another improved performance from him. He looked to have gained in confidence again and was brighter and more willing to be positive in his play i.e. look to go forward. And again he sniffed out exactly the right place to be to grab himself another goal. My one concern is his work rate. He didn't work hard enough IMO. Whether that's just down to a lack of fitness after his major injury or whether it's laziness I'm not sure, but it's something that needs to be addressed.

 

 

Jelavic - He didn't look interested at all yesterday. Maybe he was annoyed at the shocking service he got but that's no excuse for the poor body language and effort he showed. What really concerned me was the distinct lack of time he spent in Norwich's penalty area, he almost seemed reluctant to go in there. Scarily he reminded me of Saha in his last few months with us. He needs a kick up the bum, bench him for a game and bring him on and see how hungry he is then.

[JoeQuince]

I'm not saying there weren't any moves to make, at all. Of course he could throw on anyone for anyone. But, he had a couple of young wingers, an attacking midfielder, a striker, a right back, and a center back. And, all (other than the injured right back) lacked experience. He could have done some late reshuffling in the match and taken out Hitz, moved Heits to mid, brought in Hibbo to rb. But, that would've meant shaking things up, maybe too much at the time.

 

I'm not saying he was right or wrong. I just can understand there not being a clear logical move to make.

[Dalziel Kane]

However you want to see it, that's still only one win (Sunderland) in all competitions since September. Did that League Cup loss make a significant difference ? We were playing very well up to then, best of the season, and in subsequent games have struggled against lesser sides we should have beaten and dropped points and missed chances. Still in a very good position to challenge, and with players coming back and the capabilities we possess, there is still everything to play for.

 

PS Can I have the Manchester City thread, I haven't done one for a long time, and the day is 'relevant'

[Sideliner]

Joe what is the use of a bench if they are more useless than the useless players on the pitch ? we create more than enough opportunities but we urgently need a real striker who can not only finish but also create some chances on the ball - especially because the strike rate of our oponents(even the weak ones) against us is so high

[Dalziel Kane]

I sincerely thought we had just that in Jelavic only a few short months ago. But despite initial excitement, the player has not been able to replicate his great promise and goal exploits, which is a great shame. But it would do no harm at all to look around in the January window and bring in someone in that capacity who is reliable or could provide. The time will soon be upon us.

[marcopaulo]

I don't know who you would really want Moyes to sub yesterday.... Hibbert for Heitinga would have been the safest sub to make. He had a bench full of young players and wanted to protect the lead late in the match. Duffy on for ??? was possible, but it would have either meant taking off Jags or Distin or adding a 5th member to the back, which we've seen recently worked soooo well for us at the end of a game. He really didn't have much of a move to make. I was screaming for a sub for a while, too. But, I understand him being fearful to bring on 18-year-old Barkley to be our strong defensive-midfielder, replacing Hitzlsperger, when Barkley is still known to make silly hollywood mistakes.

 

Don't be too hard on Moyes for yesterday. That bench was built to try and win a 0-0 draw, not to conserve a 1-0 lead for 80+ minutes. Without a 2nd earlier goal (which Moyes, unfortunately, can't go out and score for his team), this was always going to be difficult.

 

the guy was dead on his feet...anyone would have been more useful at that point

[Louis]

Norwich are to report racist tweets towards Bassong after he scored to the police:

 

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2012/11/25/3555123/norwich-to-contact-police-over-alleged-racist-tweets-aimed

[Shukes]

Can anyone see my point about Heitinger not jumping now?

It's those decisions that cost teams points. Not saying he is the only one making bad judgment calls at the min as Howard could have also claimed that ball.

But for gods sake if that guy would just learn to challenge for balls then it would improve him by 25% as a player.

Distin looks as though age is starting to catch up on him this year.

Jags is starting to look his old self again, but he needs a solid partner and we dont seem to have anyone that can slot in with him.

 

We need a top class centre back urgently. Does anyone think maybe Duffy could be ready yet? and do we have any others coming through that can maybe help out?

 

I think goals will come back. Mirralis will be back and hopefully Barkley will get some minutes on the pitch too. And Baines telling Jela what for might be just what he needed. Last season he ran around like he wanted to prove himself, come on Jela half a season does not make you a success. Roll em up lad and get muddy!

[Avinalaff]

Norwich are to report racist tweets towards Bassong after he scored to the police:

 

http://www.goal.com/...st-tweets-aimed

 

Twitter should be viewed as a separate entity entirely regarding fans, and those involved represent themselves on a personal basis, not the club or it's support. Twitter, or any other networking site should also be responsible for it's own governing and policing.

[Romey 1878]

Does anyone think maybe Duffy could be ready yet?

 

Duffy looked good when he was given a couple of games last season but we won't know if he's ready until he's given a proper run, which is unlikely.

[Bailey]

We were lumping it forward back when we were winning games as well. It's just that with Fellaini there, he actually brings the ball down on like 90% of balls lumped forward, gives it wide to Baines/Pienaar or Mirallas and then we can build from there. Today we didn't have that option and a lot of long balls went astray. We should have passed from the back, but they pressed much higher up the pitch in the second half (as did Reading last week) and our defenders just didn't have any other options then to hoof it as none of our midfielders seemed to understand in which space they had to be to be available to get the ball, neither did Jelavic when the ball was with a full back.

 

Its always been the way to beat us though unfortunately and it will continue to be (Arsenal are the same). Im surprised teams dont press us higher up the pitch as invariably the teams that do get points.

 

Can anyone see my point about Heitinger not jumping now?

It's those decisions that cost teams points. Not saying he is the only one making bad judgment calls at the min as Howard could have also claimed that ball.

But for gods sake if that guy would just learn to challenge for balls then it would improve him by 25% as a player.

Distin looks as though age is starting to catch up on him this year.

Jags is starting to look his old self again, but he needs a solid partner and we dont seem to have anyone that can slot in with him.

 

We need a top class centre back urgently. Does anyone think maybe Duffy could be ready yet? and do we have any others coming through that can maybe help out?

 

If Heitinga had jumped for that ball he would have been nowhere near. He lost him for half a yard and it was only because the original ball was over hit that Bassong manages to get something on to it.

 

The biggest culprit for that goal is Howard. Bassong makes contact with that ball about 4 yards away from his post meaning that it would have probably been at around 5 yards max as it passed that side of Howards goal. The ball was high and floaty and any keeper worth his salt would have been coming out and taking control of that situation. You can see him think about it but then he back tracks and in the end that is what allows Bassong to score, because he is then out of position. Any ball with that type of flight when it is that close to the goal should always be the keepers. I can understand him not wanting to catch it due to the conditions, but he needs to be punching that clear.

 

I am begining to think that a new keeper is priority number one come January. Not only to cut down the errors but to also command the defence. They look like lost sheep, especially at set pieces and someone needs to take charge.

[Oztoffee]

The biggest culprit for that goal is Howard

The ball was high and floaty and any keeper worth his salt would have been coming out and taking control of that situation. You can see him think about it but then he back tracks and in the end that is what allows Bassong to score, because he is then out of position. Any ball with that type of flight when it is that close to the goal should always be the keepers. I can understand him not wanting to catch it due to the conditions, but he needs to be punching that clear.

 

 

 

Absolutely correct....not the first time that Howard has backed off when he should be out there taking control. That's why the 6=yard box used to be called the goal area. Because the 'keeper had control in that area. It was his decisions there that counted and the box was literally under his management. No excuses!

 

The rest of the game was so predictable. I just knew (could feel it in my water) that we'd come out the second half as a different team....we'd hold out until the end. As the end got closer the equaliser was inevitable. I knew it and the crowd at the ground knew it, you could feel it even on TV.

 

CL? Never at this level of performance. I'm amazed that we're still up there in the top 5, but the points don't lie. Unless there's a swift change of attitude, tactics and refereeing ability we'll be lucky to finish in the top 8.

[Dalziel Kane]

Change in match officiating efficiency ?

 

On recent evidence, don't hold your breath..

 

They're a decent side, but we really should be beating clubs like this, especially with a home advantage.

[Shukes]

I dont disagree that Howard was at fault, he was, simply as. i also agree that he isnt commanding the box as he should. Goalkeepers should own that area.

 

But i do disagree that Heitinger wasnt at fault for not only losing his marker but also not jumpin, which he seems averse to doing his share.

As a defender myself i know the value in challenging for the sake of challenging when it comes to the " goal area ". I was always told that even if you are not going to win the ball, still jump as you could put them off, you could get lucky and get in the way of a goal bound effort and at the very least you can make it difficult for them.

 

I have just watched so many goals go in this season because a defender judged not to make a challenge in the goal area and it frustrates me. As i have said before, my opinions about heitinga are born more through frustration than a dislike of him, as i think he could be a much better player than he already is.

Last season he was player of the year and this season he just seems to have lost something for me.

 

Desicion time...should i jump or not? no i wont.....damn it's a goal. i am not saying he could have stopped it, just that it's those desiciocs that cost goals.

[Bailey]

I dont disagree that Howard was at fault, he was, simply as. i also agree that he isnt commanding the box as he should. Goalkeepers should own that area.

 

But i do disagree that Heitinger wasnt at fault for not only losing his marker but also not jumpin, which he seems averse to doing his share.

As a defender myself i know the value in challenging for the sake of challenging when it comes to the " goal area ". I was always told that even if you are not going to win the ball, still jump as you could put them off, you could get lucky and get in the way of a goal bound effort and at the very least you can make it difficult for them.

 

I have just watched so many goals go in this season because a defender judged not to make a challenge in the goal area and it frustrates me. As i have said before, my opinions about heitinga are born more through frustration than a dislike of him, as i think he could be a much better player than he already is.

Last season he was player of the year and this season he just seems to have lost something for me.

 

Desicion time...should i jump or not? no i wont.....damn it's a goal. i am not saying he could have stopped it, just that it's those desiciocs that cost goals.

 

So its you that taught Coleman to give away that penalty last week

 

Most of the times I do agree. You jump with them to unsettle the opposition player, but Heitinga just wasnt anywhere near the ball at the weekend and jumping aimlessly wouldnt have done anything because his man had gone. I generally think that Heitinga is very good at using his body so that he doesnt have to jump to clear a cross. The amount of times he is able to ease the opposition man underneath the ball is quite impressive and it is what a lot of smaller defenders have to do (look at Baines as well... Gary Neville used to be very good at it).

 

Personally I think Howards decision cost us the goal, but Heitinga's (lack of tracking) stopped Howard from getting away with it.

[MikeO]

All this talk about the goal I might actually have to watch it....missed it Saturday and deliberately avoided seeing it since .

[Romey 1878]

All this talk about the goal I might actually have to watch it....missed it Saturday and deliberately avoided seeing it since .

 

Don't do it to yourself.

[MikeO]

Don't do it to yourself.

 

I probably won't .

[Dalziel Kane]

I haven't seen the goal yet either in all honesty, didn't watch highlights that night, you understand.

 

So Howard made a mistake, all goalkeepers, even the best, will be prone to error, they're only human, and humans make mistakes. Even the great Southall was guilty of a few incidents over the years but we still recognize him and Howard as two fine, and with the former, outstanding club servants and professionals.

 

Yes it was disappointing to let them score when it did, Howard would have been less than pleased himself and we all felt it, but can only move on and try not to dwell on something that really cannot be altered, after time.

[Avinalaff]

I haven't seen the goal yet either in all honesty, didn't watch highlights that night, you understand.

 

So Howard made a mistake, all goalkeepers, even the best, will be prone to error, they're only human, and humans make mistakes. Even the great Southall was guilty of a few incidents over the years but we still recognize him and Howard as two fine, and with the former, outstanding club servants and professionals.

 

Yes it was disappointing to let them score when it did, Howard would have been less than pleased himself and we all felt it, but can only move on and try not to dwell on something that really cannot be altered, after time.

 

The Norwich striker tied Howards shoe laces together when he wasn't looking.