Real Madrid

[Zoo]

That he thinks it was a goal

 

Oh fuck you then! .

[Kohen]

I'm not sure if I'll be jumping on the 'pick faults with our defence' bandwagon. It's a new system and it's going to take a while for the defence to get it;

That's what the preseason is for, trying out new formations, tactics, ideas especially as the team is new to the manager and vice-versa!

Preseason is also, obviously, about fitness - players should really be peaking now and if they're not I'd be concerned.

 

and a few look below full power, such as Fellaini, Distin, Gibson, Baines etc.

 

 

 

Before we went to America noone could praise Gibson enough! Bit harsh after Juve played him out the game, and he had 10mins against Real, he's been demoted to looking below full power!

Edited August 4, 2013 by Kohen

[Avinalaff]

 

Slight exaggeration. Because of the new style of play, we were always going to concede more goals than we did do under Moyes and dont forget, we have only played 3-4 games under this new style of play and even those games have been with different formations so it will take some getting used to.

 

Suprised you thought Gibson looked below par as well. I personally think he has been a stand out player in this new system, his ability to spray the ball about is exceptional, though i agree about Baines, i actually thought he was very poor against Madrid and he hasnt really done much in the other games. I think Oviedo has looked better in the games we have played.

 

I'm not sure it's an exaggeration to be be honest. We really did look exposed last night every time we lost possession. Yes, it's early, but I can't help feeling we are losing more than we are gaining with this system.

 

If we are to stick with it, I think we need to strengthen our midfield in terms of keeping one midfield player in a permanent defensive position.

[Avinalaff]

I dunno if I'm jumping on the 'pick faults with our defence' bandwagon. It's a new system and it's going to take a while for the defence to get it;

That's what the preseason is for, trying out new formations, tactics, ideas especially as the team is new to the manager and vice-versa!

 

Preseason is also, obviously, about fitness - players should really be peaking now and if they're not I'd be concerned.

 

 

Before we went to America noone could praise Gibson enough! Bit harsh after Juve played him out the game, and he had 10mins against Real, he's been demoted to looking below full power!

 

Why is it harsh?

 

Against Juventus he looked tired. I disagree he was played out of the game. It's my observation, not a criticism.

[Kohen]

 

Why is it harsh?

 

Against Juventus he looked tired. I disagree he was played out of the game. It's my observation, not a criticism.

 

Poor lads gone from hero to zero!

[GoodisonRoad]

 

I'm not sure it's an exaggeration to be be honest. We really did look exposed last night every time we lost possession. Yes, it's early, but I can't help feeling we are losing more than we are gaining with this system.

 

If we are to stick with it, I think we need to strengthen our midfield in terms of keeping one midfield player in a permanent defensive position.

 

Its an exaggeration to say our defence is "one of the worst" after we conceded 2 goals to Real Madrid (admittedly it could have been more) 3-4 games into a pre-season where we are playing a completely different system and still not sure of what formation we are going to play.

 

My particular concern is our central midfield. I agree with you that we need a "permanent defensive midfielder", Fellaini seems to be playing as a box to box midfielder at the moment and to me he just seems to ghost through games. Personally i think Fellaini just needs to sit in front of the back 4 and let Gibbo/Osman/Pienaar do all the work up the pitch. I also think we need more numbers in CM an injury to Gibson/Fellaini or Osman could be disastrous.

[Steve_E]

Zero to none of the chances we conceded against Madrid had anything to do with our defensive system. They were either the result of some individual brilliance (like when Jesé dribbled in between Coleman and Distin when Howard made that great save with his foot) or they were the result of counter attacks and they're gonna happen to every single team that plays Real. Real scored 103 league goals last season and I think a significant part of those will have been on counter attacks as they are one of the 3 or so best counter attacking sides in the world. We also did have a midfielder that sat back: Heitinga did exactly that, Av. We also did not defend with a high line like I've seen some fans say. We were only high up the pitch when we were attacking, like every side in the world does. You can't attack and have your defenders sit deep at the same time as there will be 40 yards of space between the midfield and the defenders.

[Avinalaff]

Well, for me, you can only judge the tactics after each game, and last night we were all about going forward and didn't consider their counter attack, time and time again.

 

Not sure saying Gibson looked tired is going from Hero to zero. Talk about misinterpretation.

[Zoo]

I don't think it was us ignoring the counter-attack I think it was just down to the counter-attack being too good for us. I get what you're saying Avin and partly agree but sometimes against teams like Madrid and defending against the likes of Ronaldo it's hard to totally shut them out.

 

I for one am just happy we attacked them.

[Steve_E]

Well, for me, you can only judge the tactics after each game, and last night we were all about going forward and didn't consider their counter attack, time and time again.

 

Not sure saying Gibson looked tired is going from Hero to zero. Talk about misinterpretation.

 

You're making it sound like everyone was recklessly going forward. That wasn't the case, there were at least 3 men back at all times. A lot of counter attacks were 1 vs 3 as well, it's just that Ronaldo on his own is already a handfull. It's also true that those players in the last line gave away the ball a lot and everytime they do it's going to be dangerous.

[RuffRob]

preseason isn't full throttle either the same way competitive games are either. Its about fitness, getting your touch back and getting in to a new system.

 

I will leave judgement until around Xmas time. I saw enough last night to go in to the season in a positive attitude rather than two much to worry about.

[Avinalaff]

 

You're making it sound like everyone was recklessly going forward. That wasn't the case, there were at least 3 men back at all times. A lot of counter attacks were 1 vs 3 as well, it's just that Ronaldo on his own is already a handfull. It's also true that those players in the last line gave away the ball a lot and everytime they do it's going to be dangerous.

 

I'm saying it as I see it mate.

Martinez seems to see it the same as me too.

[Dalziel Kane]

Was unable to follow events earlier today but from all I could ascertain it was perhaps a harsh defeat and the match officials put in a less than excellent performance. I can't get too pumped up over pre-season games, even though the caiber of recent opposition has been stellar. It's a relief to see the manager going for offensive tactics now after the tentative approaches of before and some cant' wait to see utilized in the league in a few short weeks. To play such established and recognized names such as Turin and Madrid in recent games and leave with a certain sense of pride and satisfaction is a great thing to take away. The referee appeared to favor the Spanish it appears, but it won't be the first time this club will get fucked over by wrongful officiating decisions - or the last.

 

Well done to all involved in so nearly pulling off another standout result. On another night, and with a better standard of match officiating, that may have come to pass but the team can take something away from recent games and on to the real business of domestics in a short enough time.

[Avinalaff]

Was unable to follow events earlier today but from all I could ascertain it was perhaps a harsh defeat and the match officials put in a less than excellent performance. I can't get too pumped up over pre-season games, even though the caiber of recent opposition has been stellar. It's a relief to see the manager going for offensive tactics now after the tentative approaches of before and some cant' wait to see utilized in the league in a few short weeks. To play such established and recognized names such as Turin and Madrid in recent games and leave with a certain sense of pride and satisfaction is a great thing to take away. The referee appeared to favor the Spanish it appears, but it won't be the first time this club will get fucked over by wrongful officiating decisions - or the last.

 

Well done to all involved in so nearly pulling off another standout result. On another night, and with a better standard of match officiating, that may have come to pass but the team can take something away from recent games and on to the real business of domestics in a short enough time.

 

Do you actually watch a game Dalziel?

I don't think I've ever read a post from you where you have actually seen the team play. You can watch the full match and all the others in the same place if you want to see them. It would be a shame for you to miss out mate, and you'll be able to offer an informed opinion then, instead of simply summarizing other peoples posts.

[Brett Angel]

Couldn't be happier... Still tryin to pass it even when it doesn't come off first time... The confidence tha lads are showing is immense... Drilling the ball into each other , rather than the short feeble uncertain passes we'vs seen in the past... It is a little bitter sweet at the moment though as I am concerned about not keeping a clean sheet under martinez.

[Mogsy]

Couldn't be happier... Still tryin to pass it even when it doesn't come off first time... The confidence tha lads are showing is immense... Drilling the ball into each other , rather than the short feeble uncertain passes we'vs seen in the past... It is a little bitter sweet at the moment though as I am concerned about not keeping a clean sheet under martinez.

Wasn't too many clean sheets under Moyes last season mind.

[Bailey]

Yeh its not exactly like we were brilliant defensively under Moyes in his last few seasons although we always got better as the season went on.

[Avinalaff]

I'd rather win 4-3 every week than 1-0. I just don't want to lose 4-3.

[Brett Angel]

Yes, that being said, your never going to score 4 past the top four sides.....that's were they find there balance.

[Avinalaff]

Yes, that being said, your never going to score 4 past the top four sides.....that's were they find there balance.

 

He he

[Steve_E]

 

I'm saying it as I see it mate.

Martinez seems to see it the same as me too.

 

 

I'm not saying they weren't dangerous on the counter attack and that we couldn't have dealt better with that, I'm saying their chances on the counter attack are not related to a new defensive system. "Transition" is a completely different phase of play than "defense" and that's what we had problems with.

[Avinalaff]

 

 

I'm not saying they weren't dangerous on the counter attack and that we couldn't have dealt better with that, I'm saying their chances on the counter attack are not related to a new defensive system. "Transition" is a completely different phase of play than "defense" and that's what we had problems with.

 

Not sure I fully understand Steve, but not important matey.

[SimonButtle]

 

 

I'm not saying they weren't dangerous on the counter attack and that we couldn't have dealt better with that, I'm saying their chances on the counter attack are not related to a new defensive system. "Transition" is a completely different phase of play than "defense" and that's what we had problems with.

Not so sure about that, we played with such a high line the other day, I hope we don't start the league defending like that, otherwise our goals against is just going to be plain scarey next season.

[Romey 1878]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/everton-fc-lose-2-1-real-5585739?

[Hafnia]

1 goal scored, a good one denied, a penno not given against a team full of rich talent.... i'm liking what I am seeing.

 

For me it's not the result, its the manner of the result. We had a good go at them. For me conceding goals is a part of football, try to minimise the amount you concede and maximise the opportunities to score.

 

Under Moyes would we have conceded less? I don't think necessarily so, but we would have been set up to contain them rather than trouble them. For me that approach has not done us any favours in the past against pure footballing teams (Arsenal hidings etc).

 

This isn't Moyes versus Martinez, this for me is the realisation that we do not need to be a pragmatic "try and score and hold on" team. We have talent within our team to trouble any side in the world, changing our midset from "if we don't concede we stand a chance of winning" to "if we score we have a chance of winning" means we will cause the opposition concern.

 

I know one thing from what I have seen, we aren't going to have bored fans at goodison. I know several people who packed in their season tickets over the past couple of years, big Evertonians. The reason wasnt that they don't love the club, it was just purely the fact that they couldn't stomach any more negativite tactics. Based on average attendances etc, they weren't the only ones. Its all about value. I know fans who turned down free tickets!

 

How often have we had to try and defend our brand of football? We were to a point at a stage of denial. "No we don't hoof it to fellaini, we've got baines and pienaar playing great stuff" - the reality was that when we ran out of ideas that was our solution. I think under martinez we may lose a few more, but we will win more and draw less. We will have the occasions where we absolutely destroy teams - we will see a few 6-1 wins. We will have the odd 4-3 loss. We will have less bored fans who will want to go to goodison. We will see more youngsters given a chance, we will see less favouritism to the old guard, we will see the players compete for a place.

 

I've said it all along, the good times are back under this manager - a team playing football we can be 'proud of' (martinez's words) - read into that what you will but I know exactly where he was coming from.

[Steve_E]

Not so sure about that, we played with such a high line the other day, I hope we don't start the league defending like that, otherwise our goals against is just going to be plain scarey next season.

 

We did not defend with a high line. Defending with a high line is when like the opposition's goalkeeper passes it to a centre back just outside the box and then that's where your first line of defenders will press, your last line will be at the half-way line. When Real were attacking, we were sitting a lot deeper. We were just high up the pitch for a couple of their chances because we were attacking and lost the ball. You see how that's totally different, don't you? Then we usually tried to play Ronaldo offside when their first outlet ball came.

 

BTW: Moyes did play with a high line most of the time and we didn't exactly leak goals.

[Lowensda]

One thing that was apparent and i'm not sure whether the 'fasting' is affecting him but Jelavic was 10x the player Kone was in the first half. Kone just hasn't shown me anything yet. I want to be proved wrong, just isn't helping.

[Peter H]

One thing that was apparent and i'm not sure whether the 'fasting' is affecting him but Jelavic was 10x the player Kone was in the first half. Kone just hasn't shown me anything yet. I want to be proved wrong, just isn't helping.

 

I actually agree and I was in Konés corner to begin with, hope he doesn't prove me wrong because I still believe he will come good for us.

[Hafnia]

One thing that was apparent and i'm not sure whether the 'fasting' is affecting him but Jelavic was 10x the player Kone was in the first half. Kone just hasn't shown me anything yet. I want to be proved wrong, just isn't helping.

 

I think ramadan will affect him greatly. From sunrise to sunset best part of 18 hours, Muntari was subbstituted after 30 minutes by Mourinho, Demba Ba had a goalscoring problem when he was observing ramadan - his goals returned when he was eating again.

 

Fellaini is a muslim, not sure if he fasts though.

[Zoo]

Kone will come good he just needs to get settled into the team and find his fitness.