USA National Team

[markjazzbassist]

Penalties aside Dempsey and Donovan now tied for goals with USA. I've said it all alongc Dempsey is the better of the 2, others here have disagreed but I stand by it. After this tourney and the next World Cup he could overtake the totals with pens as well (even though he's only been on pen duty for 1 year as opposed to Donovan's like 8 years)

[Keith B]

I agree. Landon was a great player but Dempsey has been better overall and is a lot easier to root for.

[markjazzbassist]

lineup i'm hoping for wednesday

 

guzan

chandler gonzo brooks fabian

yedlin bradley beckerman bedoya

AJ Dempsey

[Keith B]

I'd take that with Zardes off the bench with about 30 minutes to play.

[markjazzbassist]

I'd take that with Zardes off the bench with about 30 minutes to play.

Agreed or have Zardes in for Yedlin, for not being a winger he does seem to operate well out there.

[markjazzbassist]

We got cocky and lost 2-1 to Jamaica in the semis. Ouch. They have some good players, a decent amount of premier league starters (I did not know that previous to the game).

 

I think we have to get 3rd and Win the confederations cup playoff against the winner of the cup for JK to keep his job. Bradley was fired for a similar collapse. We will see what happens.

 

Personally I love Jk and don't want him fired. He's been great for program development and adding talent to the pool (Germans ahem Germans).

 

He really does need to get the keeper and back 4 situation handled though.

Edited July 23, 2015 by markjazzbassist

[Keith B]

We got cocky and lost 2-1 to Jamaica in the semis. Ouch. They have some good players, a decent amount of premier league starters (I did not know that previous to the game).

 

I think we have to get 3rd and Win the confederations cup playoff against the winner of the cup for JK to keep his job. Bradley was fired for a similar collapse. We will see what happens.

 

Personally I love Jk and don't want him fired. He's been great for program development and adding talent to the pool (Germans ahem Germans).

 

He really does need to get the keeper and back 4 situation handled though.

 

He's going to be on thin ice if they don't qualify for the Confed Cup. I've got no idea who is out there that might come after him though.

[markjazzbassist]

 

He's going to be on thin ice if they don't qualify for the Confed Cup. I've got no idea who is out there that might come after him though.

Exactly Keith. At this point in the cycle it's washed up national managers or club managers. I would stick with him through 2018 WC but have the backup plan already formulated should that tourney go bad.

[Sibdane]

Klinsmann needs to take on a different role within the USA program. He's good at recruiting talent, but that's about it.

 

His team selections are terrible, and we play an ugly brand of soccer, in my opinion.

 

It's great beating Germany, Italy, and the like, but we don't perform when it matters.

 

I mean, why on earth would he play Beckerman against Jamaica, a team that is known for their athleticism?

Edited July 23, 2015 by TonkaRoost

[Keith B]

Klinsmann needs to take on a different role within the USA program. He's good at recruiting talent, but that's about it.

 

His team selections are terrible, and we play an ugly brand of soccer, in my opinion.

 

It's great beating Germany, Italy, and the like, but we don't perform when it matters.

 

I mean, why on earth would he play Beckerman against Jamaica, a team that is known for their athleticism?

And then bringing on Mix for Beckermann was a head scratcher.

[Louis]

USA were pretty average last night.

 

I guess we can put to the rest the myth that English can't beat USA in a competitive game, Jamaica had at least six last night.

 

The way, I see it, USA has no high quality forward. The best one chose to play for Italy over ten years ago and Fagundez chose Uruguay. The hope seems to be with someone called Bobby Wood.

 

Mexico and Panama sounded chaotic but I'd gone to bed by then. The Panama team posed in front of a banner that said something like 'CONCACAF are thieves' after the game..

 

Assistants had liquid thrown at them at 4:57 in this video:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWOkVgcGFdw

[markjazzbassist]

Klinsmann needs to take on a different role within the USA program. He's good at recruiting talent, but that's about it.

 

His team selections are terrible, and we play an ugly brand of soccer, in my opinion.

 

It's great beating Germany, Italy, and the like, but we don't perform when it matters.

 

I mean, why on earth would he play Beckerman against Jamaica, a team that is known for their athleticism?

I'm in a Facebook group is soccer and a lot of people echo your response. The reason for beckerman is the Reason for so many others (chandler, brooks, etc)...who else? We don't have another holding mid who is good. Mix is attacking player, so who goes on? Everyone gets on chandler but he's the only rb we have that actually defends ANd attacks. Evans can't do both. Same thing with the centre backs, we can play old guys or look to get the WC guys starting now. Brooks I'm with, Alvarado not so much, I think gonzo and brooks would be a better pair.

 

I've heard people saying Bradley needs to go back to holding position. Honestly I may be crazy but I think he's really grown into the creative role and does a great job. He's the box to box guy we've always needed.

 

It's tough, but I honestly just feel we have some serious shit players. Dempsey, bedoya, Zardes, Bradley, Yedlin, and Fabian are all solid, but beyond that it's not very inspiring.

 

I will be interested to see the reaction today though.

[Sibdane]

I'm in a Facebook group is soccer and a lot of people echo your response. The reason for beckerman is the Reason for so many others (chandler, brooks, etc)...who else? We don't have another holding mid who is good. Mix is attacking player, so who goes on? Everyone gets on chandler but he's the only rb we have that actually defends ANd attacks. Evans can't do both. Same thing with the centre backs, we can play old guys or look to get the WC guys starting now. Brooks I'm with, Alvarado not so much, I think gonzo and brooks would be a better pair.

 

I've heard people saying Bradley needs to go back to holding position. Honestly I may be crazy but I think he's really grown into the creative role and does a great job. He's the box to box guy we've always needed.

 

It's tough, but I honestly just feel we have some serious shit players. Dempsey, bedoya, Zardes, Bradley, Yedlin, and Fabian are all solid, but beyond that it's not very inspiring.

 

I will be interested to see the reaction today though.

I don't buy the "who else?" argument. Jamaica is a team that we should be besting and usually beat. Klinsmann should've recognized their athleticism and gone with a different plan.

 

I feel like he's been out of his depth since he's joined and his successful career as an athlete is papering over the cracks that are his managerial weaknesses.

 

You play Bradley there against Jamaica instead of Becks and push Mix up.

Edited July 23, 2015 by TonkaRoost

[markjazzbassist]

I don't buy the "who else?" argument. Jamaica is a team that we should be besting and usually beat. Klinsmann should've recognized their athleticism and gone with a different plan.

 

I feel like he's been out of his depth since he's joined and his successful career as an athlete is papering over the cracks that are his managerial weaknesses.

 

You play Bradley there against Jamaica instead of Becks and push Mix up.

 

yes and i hear the same thing on the US soccer facebook group. Mix hasn't been great with NYCFC or the US team. But all of a sudden we have a bad game and Mix is the hero, he's been anonymous in so many games, i've been rooting him on hoping he comes alive but he doesn't have the skills to play at this level.

 

So if bradley's injured, who's your holding midfielder? we just don't have any solid ones man. Bradley or Beckerman (if it's a slow play team). that's a big issue. The striker is a huge issue, AJ missed some serious open shots, Altidore is a lump, Wondo is old, Zardes is too young and unproven yet, there's a weakness there as well. Also the utility player of Fabian, he's one of our most consistent and best players and he's moved like a chess piece to paper over the cracks of holes in the talent pool.

 

I understand you're not a JK fan and that's fine, I know a lot of people are still upset about the LD thing (not saying you are). I just think it's a talent issue, we have more depth than ever, but that doesn't mean any of it is talented, it's just average bodies.

 

Jk wasn't just a successful athlete, he coached Germany to 3rd in World Cup, is widely acknowledged as one of the main reasons their national team and youth are so strong now due to the foundations he laid when he was coach, coached at Bayern Munich, etc.

 

Also, fire JK, who are you going to hire? There's no one of quality left after the WC, we're going to have some half-cocked MLS coach? I just don't see a better alternative whether you like the guy or not.

Edited July 23, 2015 by markjazzbassist

[Sibdane]

 

yes and i hear the same thing on the US soccer facebook group. Mix hasn't been great with NYCFC or the US team. But all of a sudden we have a bad game and Mix is the hero, he's been anonymous in so many games, i've been rooting him on hoping he comes alive but he doesn't have the skills to play at this level.

 

So if bradley's injured, who's your holding midfielder? we just don't have any solid ones man. Bradley or Beckerman (if it's a slow play team). that's a big issue. The striker is a huge issue, AJ missed some serious open shots, Altidore is a lump, Wondo is old, Zardes is too young and unproven yet, there's a weakness there as well. Also the utility player of Fabian, he's one of our most consistent and best players and he's moved like a chess piece to paper over the cracks of holes in the talent pool.

 

I understand you're not a JK fan and that's fine, I know a lot of people are still upset about the LD thing (not saying you are). I just think it's a talent issue, we have more depth than ever, but that doesn't mean any of it is talented, it's just average bodies.

 

Jk wasn't just a successful athlete, he coached Germany to 3rd in World Cup, is widely acknowledged as one of the main reasons their national team and youth are so strong now due to the foundations he laid when he was coach, coached at Bayern Munich, etc.

 

Also, fire JK, who are you going to hire? There's no one of quality left after the WC, we're going to have some half-cocked MLS coach? I just don't see a better alternative whether you like the guy or not.

Bradley wasn't injured though, so I'm not sure how that's relevant.

 

Bad form or not for Mix, Beckerman is not who you play there against Jamaica. How can you say that Klinsmann has found more talent for his than before, but somehow we are a worse team. He could've brought in Cameron or Williams -- both are better and more mobile than Beckerman. Again, poor, poor roster.

 

And everyone knows that Germany's success is down to Low. Saying that Klinnsman led Germany to 3rd is not a big feat considering they usually always make it to semis AT LEAST.

[Sibdane]

PS. Give me Bradley over Klinnsman anyday as coach.

 

Klinnsman needs a directors role. He's not a good coach.

Edited July 23, 2015 by TonkaRoost

[markjazzbassist]

Bradley wasn't injured though, so I'm not sure how that's relevant.

 

Bad form or not for Mix, Beckerman is not who you play there against Jamaica. How can you say that Klinsmann has found more talent for his than before, but somehow we are a worse team. He could've brought in Cameron or Williams -- both are better and more mobile than Beckerman. Again, poor, poor roster.

 

And everyone knows that Germany's success is down to Low. Saying that Klinnsman led Germany to 3rd is not a big feat considering they usually always make it to semis AT LEAST.

 

i was saying if bradley is injured who would you bring in as the holder, but you answered it in your next statement. Yes good call Tonk, Cameron could definately be the holder, i forgot about him (sadly so has JK). Shit he could be RB too!! I also like Williams a lot as well. Good calls. Im not a becks fan either, just didn't know who else we'd put out there, but i'd be more confident with either of those 2 out there for sure.

 

I think he has found great players (Fabian, Chandler, Green, Zelalem, etc) who wouldn't have necessarly played for us. I can say he's found more talent than before but we are worse cause that's how bad we are. If he hadn't found all the germans and AJ it would be sit back for 90 minutes and pray for defense and hope for a miracle counter attack/set piece goal somewhere. We are dire, but would be even more dire if he hadn't brought in some of the new guys and some old players who were bradley cast offs (bedoya especially).

 

yeah i understand Low had a lot to do with it, but he still did it, bradley has not, arena, etc. His pedigree is the best we've had. Yes directors role might suit him more, but I don't see Bradley coming back, he's doing well in Norway (europa qualifying slot currently) and if they do qualify I could see him going to a bigger europe league, he's done well and i'm happy for him. for the record i really like Bob as well, I didn't like some of his favorites (don't like some of JK's either) but I'm happy he's doing well with club football.

Edited July 23, 2015 by markjazzbassist

[Keith B]

I have a German acquaintance on twitter (surely the world's most reliable source) that swears that Klinnsman was massively overrated as the German manager. That is starting to look more and more plausible.

 

I can't say that I'm anti-JK at this point, but I can't really look at the results over the past few years and say that he has greatly advanced American men's soccer. Sure we made it out of the group stage in 2014, but we did the same in 2010. It was a close game against Belgium, but they dominated the game from start to finish. Won the Gold Cup in 2013, lost it in 2015. The style of play is better--more possession, less reliance on counter-attacking--but it isn't producing better results. (And in our big friendly wins, we basically just did the counterattacking thing.)

 

So progress under Klinnsman? Mixed at best. My understanding is that he has emphasized the youth programs. I watched almost all of the USA games at the U-20 WC and it did seem like we have some promising players. I don't know if that buys him another 4 years though.

[markjazzbassist]

I have a German acquaintance on twitter (surely the world's most reliable source) that swears that Klinnsman was massively overrated as the German manager. That is starting to look more and more plausible.

 

I can't say that I'm anti-JK at this point, but I can't really look at the results over the past few years and say that he has greatly advanced American men's soccer. Sure we made it out of the group stage in 2014, but we did the same in 2010. It was a close game against Belgium, but they dominated the game from start to finish. Won the Gold Cup in 2013, lost it in 2015. The style of play is better--more possession, less reliance on counter-attacking--but it isn't producing better results. (And in our big friendly wins, we basically just did the counterattacking thing.)

 

So progress under Klinnsman? Mixed at best. My understanding is that he has emphasized the youth programs. I watched almost all of the USA games at the U-20 WC and it did seem like we have some promising players. I don't know if that buys him another 4 years though.

 

great points keith, i think you've nailed it on the head with the "mixed" tag. some good some bad. seems to be the running line for our program, 2 steps forward, 1 step back.

[Sibdane]

I have a German acquaintance on twitter (surely the world's most reliable source) that swears that Klinnsman was massively overrated as the German manager. That is starting to look more and more plausible.

 

I can't say that I'm anti-JK at this point, but I can't really look at the results over the past few years and say that he has greatly advanced American men's soccer. Sure we made it out of the group stage in 2014, but we did the same in 2010. It was a close game against Belgium, but they dominated the game from start to finish. Won the Gold Cup in 2013, lost it in 2015. The style of play is better--more possession, less reliance on counter-attacking--but it isn't producing better results. (And in our big friendly wins, we basically just did the counterattacking thing.)

 

So progress under Klinnsman? Mixed at best. My understanding is that he has emphasized the youth programs. I watched almost all of the USA games at the U-20 WC and it did seem like we have some promising players. I don't know if that buys him another 4 years though.

 

I agree with you completely here.

 

Like I said before, Klinnsman has done a great job bringing in talent, but I can't help but feel he's diluted the pool a little bit; team cohesion is lacking, and I can't help but feel it's due to all the new additions. It's a catch-22 really, we don't want to leave any stone unturned because then we miss out on potential talent, but having a solid, consistent core is also important to success.

 

So far, I can only recognize Dempsey, Beckerman, Bedoya, Bradley, and Fabian as core players. Every other player has question marks over their heads.

[Sibdane]

 

great points keith, i think you've nailed it on the head with the "mixed" tag. some good some bad. seems to be the running line for our program, 2 steps forward, 1 step back.

 

It does seem like this is our program's philosophy. I do agree with you though when you mentioned that aren't really any other coaches available to come in and take over (unless we miraculously were able to get Klopp!).

[markjazzbassist]

 

I agree with you completely here.

 

Like I said before, Klinnsman has done a great job bringing in talent, but I can't help but feel he's diluted the pool a little bit; team cohesion is lacking, and I can't help but feel it's due to all the new additions. It's a catch-22 really, we don't want to leave any stone unturned because then we miss out on potential talent, but having a solid, consistent core is also important to success.

 

So far, I can only recognize Dempsey, Beckerman, Bedoya, Bradley, and Fabian as core players. Every other player has question marks over their heads.

 

agreed, on the core players and lack of cohesion. i will be VERY interested to see this confed cup playoff team sheet come oct 9, we haven't seen the "best 11" yet i don't believe and it will be interesting to see who they are. maybe something like -

 

Howard

Cameron Gonzo Besler Fabian

Yedlin Williams Bradley Bedoya

Dempsey Zardes?/Altidore?

 

That looks like the "best players" we have no necessarily their best positions, but it's the best 11 on the field possibly. No idea on the striker though, that has been missing for a decade now. Still no solid US strikers.

 

 

 

It does seem like this is our program's philosophy. I do agree with you though when you mentioned that aren't really any other coaches available to come in and take over (unless we miraculously were able to get Klopp!).

 

Klopp would be amazing

Edited July 23, 2015 by markjazzbassist

[Romey 1878]

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2015/jul/23/veterans-under-pressure-lessons-from-usas-gold-cup-defeat-to-jamaica

[Cornish Steve]

One of my sons attended the USA-Jamaica match in Atlanta. He told me the US were outplayed and deserved to lose.

 

The Panama-Mexico game was very violent. Players were punching each other, even though only one (from Panama) was sent off. He couldn't leave the field because of Mexican fans throwing crap and other things at him, so the Mexican goalie walked over to accompany him off the field. Apparently, the Mexican fans throughout were a total disgrace. The ref appeared to lose it because, in reality, several players should have been red-carded.

[markjazzbassist]

http://www.espnfc.us/fifa-world-cup/story/2529746/world-cup-qualifying-draw-spain-land-italy

 

Our group is a joke. Trinidad are decent but the rest are the worst teams in the region. Should be a cakewalk.

[Cornish Steve]

http://www.espnfc.us/fifa-world-cup/story/2529746/world-cup-qualifying-draw-spain-land-italy

 

Our group is a joke. Trinidad are decent but the rest are the worst teams in the region. Should be a cakewalk.

 

That's what the bookmakers were saying against Jamaica.

[markjazzbassist]

 

That's what the bookmakers were saying against Jamaica.

I'm not using the bookmakers Steve. Jamaica are a decent side and any footballing fan knows that, we lost to them in 2012 and i remember watching that match as well. I never took the for granted.

 

But this group you can. 2 advance Steve, so even if Trinidad repeats there good form from the gold cup, if the U.S. Loses to island nations of 500 people we deserve to have the program shut down immediately. Well advance, should be the youngsters and the pros will join in the hex.

[Keith B]

We should advance without trouble. But we need to look in control always and dominate most of the matches. Even on the road.

[Keith B]

Another shit performance from the US in this 3rd place game. I know it doesn't mean anything but I was hoping from something better.

[Louis]

Jurgen should go.