markjazzbassist Posted July 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 Couple teams interested in Yedlin in Serie A. Read a story (can't find it now sadly) that Roma (American owners) were gonna buy him and then loan him to another side for the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 I think the main purpose of this thread is the question of what is needed for the US MNT to become a real competitor on the global stage. The question is; why aren't they a big footballing country today? There are TEN TIMES MORE people playing football in the USA than in Belgium. 1 million members of the USSF versus 100.000 members of the KBVB. Maybe there is a bigger portion of women playing football in the USA than in Belgium, but the paradox still stands. The answer is: Here in Belgium, football is the first game we play in kindergarten. We're born with a ball at our feet, either in school our in our spare time: it's the game we play. Ever kid wants to be Kompany, Hazard or Lukaku. Football is everywhere. It's on TV, in the newspapers and on the websites. When there's a game, everyone gathers in bars and gets out their flags. We're surrounded by the best leagues in the world: Germany in the east, England in the west, also France and the Netherlands. Spain, Portugal and Italy aren't that far away either. In the USA there's no football culture, it always takes a back seat on American football, baseball and basketball. Football is regarded as little more than a healthy outdoor activity 'soccer moms' use to keep your children busy on a saturday. Football isn't considered to be nearly as cool as it is in Europe. In America, the heros of their sports culture are Micheal Jordan, Jim Brown and Babe Ruth. That's who cool kids want to grown up to become (or maybe their contemporary counterparts). No Diego Maradona, Bobby Charlton or Johan Cruijff. As long as there's NFL, NBA and MLB, the USA won't be a major power in football. Maybe if they can bring forth the new Cristiano Ronaldo, they could (temporarily) get a breakthrough, cause they'd have 'the best player in the world' to be proud of and get some attention from the football world. Sorry Mirallas, but you're talking nonsense after you opened with a decent question. Firstly, population is no guide for a successful team, by that logic China and India should be world beaters, so its not even worth mentioning. As for the rest, you may know a lot about Belgium football, but it seems you know very little about the US. There is a large following in the US which is only getting bigger and bigger and their culture is adapting too. That statement may have been true 20-30+ years ago but I know thats certainly not true now. To answer the question - the US are still in their infancy in terms of football and are still developing, despite them being around for 100 years, mostly because the national sports (as you allude to) took priority for a long time. However, the Americans I know are getting irritated with the national sports (many preferring to watch college level rather than national leagues) and are appreciating football more and more. I'd say their status in terms of "big footballing country" is similar to that of Belgium; not won anything of real significance (though the US have won their regional title quite a few times against teams such as Brazil, Mexico and Colombia) but in recent years have shown massive improvement due to investment in the game at all levels and, for both teams, are looking more and more exciting with each game. Romey 1878 and Sibdane 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 In the USA there's no football culture, it always takes a back seat on American football, baseball and basketball. Football is regarded as little more than a healthy outdoor activity 'soccer moms' use to keep your children busy on a saturday. Football isn't considered to be nearly as cool as it is in Europe. In America, the heros of their sports culture are Micheal Jordan, Jim Brown and Babe Ruth. That's who cool kids want to grown up to become (or maybe their contemporary counterparts). No Diego Maradona, Bobby Charlton or Johan Cruijff. I don't agree with this at all, though it may appear that way from the outside looking in. Our main problem isn't our sports outside of soccer; it has more to do with the youth coaching setup. gmb 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 I hope the USA come on strong now in football. I mean they keep getting to the WC finals so it will be great when they really knuckle down to it. Actually it will be terrifying for the rest of us, but great too. Only bad side with all this however are the chants. You need to move up a gear with some of the chanting ....... (Only joking ... chant what you like if it comes from the heart) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zequist Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 (edited) I don't agree with this at all, though it may appear that way from the outside looking in. Our main problem isn't our sports outside of soccer; it has more to do with the youth coaching setup. Second this. The American youth soccer setup has been fundamentally flawed for decades. We're trying to correct that now, and fixing it is one of the things that Klinsmann has heavily prioritized since taking over the national team, but it's going to take time.You can't just put a fresh coat of paint on a house with a bad foundation and call it fixed; you have to rebuild the whole structure from the ground up. Edited July 19, 2014 by JD in DC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thoward18 Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 Second this. The American youth soccer setup has been fundamentally flawed for decades. We're trying to correct that now, and fixing it is one of the things that Klinsmann has heavily prioritized since taking over the national team, but it's going to take time.You can't just put a fresh coat of paint on a house with a bad foundation and call it fixed; you have to rebuild the whole structure from the ground up. Don't think people in Europe realize how big of a problem this is here in the US. In England, if you're 14 years old and good at soccer you get picked up by a professional team and learn from pros. Here, your club team is run by someone's dad and you play for your school team coached by the history teacher. This is something that is started to change. Red Bull New York, for instances, were one of the first teams to implement an academy for U18, U16, etc. Just recently, I believe, they've added U14 and U13. Obviously, the benefits of improved programs for 15 and 16 year olds is not going to be seen for 5-7 years., and even then it's still not perfect. Another thing RBNY want to do is build a physical academy. Players would live there and get schooling there. This is something that I think is common in Europe (correct me if I'm wrong, guys) but is unheard of in the U.S. And then there's the whole problem of the NCAA and its eligibility rules, which is a whole different issue for Klinsmann and US Soccer to tackle. I don't think the US are lacking motivation to become a soccer powerhouse. There are simply many major inherent problems with how our society is structured that put us at a disadvantage compared to other nations. US Soccer is still trying to figure out how to go about fixing that, but I think you're already starting to see massive improvement. gmb and Sibdane 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verreauxi Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 Another thing RBNY want to do is build a physical academy. Players would live there and get schooling there. This is something that I think is common in Europe (correct me if I'm wrong, guys) but is unheard of in the U.S. And then there's the whole problem of the NCAA and its eligibility rules, which is a whole different issue for Klinsmann and US Soccer to tackle. I don't think the US are lacking motivation to become a soccer powerhouse. There are simply many major inherent problems with how our society is structured that put us at a disadvantage compared to other nations. US Soccer is still trying to figure out how to go about fixing that, but I think you're already starting to see massive improvement. Tennis seems like the only sport in the USA where it is possible and acceptable to go to an academy at 12 years old or so and get your tennis training and education. It is also very expensive and elitist. US soccer has a development academy which is basically an affiliation of US soccer coaches/trainers with local soccer clubs. US soccer evaluates if the local club can join the development program and if so, US soccer sets the training agenda and match schedule. But these clubs are not all-consuming, the kids still go to school/high school on the side. Brad Guzan went through Chicago Magic PSG club (part of the US development academy) but also went to high school and college. And for better or worse, this is the problem--going to high school/college in the US versus playing serious soccer. At age 20 Brad Guzan was attending University of South Carolina, while at age 20 Ross Barkley was playing in the premier league, having come up through Everton academy since he was 11. While the status is changing, soccer is still fairly elitist (and white) in the US. Many (but obviously not all) of the youth players come from middle/upper class. And convincing the middle or upper class parents that their kid should skip college for a "soccer camp" is a tough sell. In the UK, I imagine parents would see something like Everton youth academy as a ticket to the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 There are tales that parents have threatened to pull their kids out of the academy unless the club pay for a holiday or a new kitchen or have the player's siblings also join the academy.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted July 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 Besler and Zusi have re-signed with Sporting Kansas City. Sad, i really wanted both of them to do some time in Europe, oh well. I hope Besler especially keeps getting better, well need him through this next WC cycle, Gold Cup, Copa America. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 Besler and Zusi have re-signed with Sporting Kansas City. Sad, i really wanted both of them to do some time in Europe, oh well. I hope Besler especially keeps getting better, well need him through this next WC cycle, Gold Cup, Copa America. Agreed. I can't help but feel they are just too comfortable with SKC to move. markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 Agreed. I can't help but feel they are just too comfortable with SKC to move. Let's hope they don't do a Donovan and leave it too late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 Let's hope they don't do a Donovan and leave it too late. They might pull a "Donovan" and get loaned out in the January window for a month, and we'll only see a glimpse of what they're capable of doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 They might pull a "Donovan" and get loaned out in the January window for a month, and we'll only see a glimpse of what they're capable of doing. Do you think it's fear of failure if they leave or the comfort they feel in the MLS that stops them testing themselves? Or a bit of both? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 Do you think it's fear of failure if they leave or the comfort they feel in the MLS that stops them testing themselves? Or a bit of both? Could be a lack of willing to uproot their family? God knows thats hard to do. Always wondered how kids of footballers cope with moving around the country / world every couple of years, no consistency in location.... Quinn31 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 Do you think it's fear of failure if they leave or the comfort they feel in the MLS that stops them testing themselves? Or a bit of both? Definitely a bit of both. There haven't been too many Americans who have left and succeeded. It's a curse. They're heroes in MLS, so that's where the comfort factor comes in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 Definitely a bit of both. There haven't been too many Americans who have left and succeeded. It's a curse. They're heroes in MLS, so that's where the comfort factor comes in. It's a shame because I think a lot more American's would find success in foreign leagues if they gave it a go. That in turn would encourage more to do it. I think Donovan's reluctance to do it has had a bigger impact than he and other's realise - if the best is afraid to commit to it then it sends a negative message to the rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 To be fair Donovan went to the Bundesliga but returned to MLS with his tail between his legs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted July 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 It's a shame because I think a lot more American's would find success in foreign leagues if they gave it a go. That in turn would encourage more to do it. I think Donovan's reluctance to do it has had a bigger impact than he and other's realise - if the best is afraid to commit to it then it sends a negative message to the rest. agreed. steve cherundolo was signed by a bundeslia 2 side hannover 96 when he graduated from university. he played there for a couple years, they got promoted and he stayed there till he just retired this year. broke the bundesliga record for caps, he's an american (played WC 2010) but they call him the mayor of hannover. we need more people willing to take the risks. instead they all go to stoke and we never see them again (brek shea, juan agudelo). some espn pundits wrote about moves to Europe after the WC "more americans need to move to European sides to better their growth, as long as they are not Stoke City" haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thoward18 Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 (edited) It's a delicate issue in terms of staying in MLS vs. going abroad. On one hand, you want your talent to go abroad because it validates your league as a good developer of talent and those guys playing abroad certainly makes a big statement for U.S. Soccer. On the other hand, those players going abroad means that they're not playing domestically. And if all of our good players go abroad then MLS is going to be watered down. And if the quality of the teams decline then U.S. soccer as a whole is going to decline. So where is the line in the sand? I'm not too sure. It would be great to see Zusi and/or Besler go to Europe so Sporting KC could get a nice transfer fee and say, "look at how well we're developing talent and look at how American players can compete with the best." On the other hand, by keeping them Sporting KC and MLS can say, "look at two guys who just started at the World Cup and had all sorts of interest from reputable, wealthy European teams, and yet they felt it was in their best interest to play in MLS." How do you send enough talented Americans to Europe so they can improve individually and promote U.S. Soccer internationally while still improving the standard of MLS and not falling into the trap of becoming purely a feeder league? That's the challenge we face. Edited July 25, 2014 by thoward18 Sibdane 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted July 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 It's a delicate issue in terms of staying in MLS vs. going abroad. On one hand, you want your talent to go abroad because it validates your league as a good developer of talent and those guys playing abroad certainly makes a big statement for U.S. Soccer. On the other hand, those players going abroad means that they're not playing domestically. And if all of our good players go abroad then MLS is going to be watered down. And if the quality of the teams decline then U.S. soccer as a whole is going to decline. So where is the line in the sand? I'm not too sure. It would be great to see Zusi and/or Besler go to Europe so Sporting KC could get a nice transfer fee and say, "look at how well we're developing talent and look at how American players can compete with the best." On the other hand, by keeping them Sporting KC and MLS can say, "look at two guys who just started at the World Cup and had all sorts of interest from reputable, wealthy European teams, and yet they felt it was in their best interest to play in MLS." How do you send enough talented Americans to Europe so they can improve individually and promote U.S. Soccer internationally while still improving the standard of MLS and not falling into the trap of becoming purely a feeder league? That's the challenge we face. you find the next zusi and besler and promote them. simple as that. besler was a late bloomer, yedlin an early bloomer. MLS needs to adjust its transfer rules and such to make it easier for teams to get guys. if zusi and besler left, KC could just go buy some good youngsters (like teams in every other league around the world) from another club or academy. instead in MLS they try and hold on to players for dear life because they don't want to go get new ones. the scouting departments must be terrible or something. re-signing an old donovan who doesn't care anymore? LA galaxy will surely regret that. especially with the 3 DP rule (terrible rule) that MLS has. Look at LA, they have donovan (bad move), Gonzalez (really shouldn't be a DP), and Keane (He's a DP for real). In the grand scheme of things, Gonzalez is a better than average player, but he's not DP material or a world beater. for me, the thing holding back MLS is MLS. instead of the DP rule, have the homegrown rule like EPL has, or make rules like the Bundesliga about homegrown talent. Not to mention, we're (and Liga MX) the main league for all of Concacaf, so for however much we want MLS to be about America, it never will be. When coaches can go get some young central american who's been playing all his life and is technically better than an American, oh and wait due to the dollar they cost NOTHING compared to the american who is expensive? they're go to those players all day. And look at MLS, they do. Sibdane 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted July 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 espn reporting yedlin is off to roma. he's being loaned back to seattle to finish out this season and then will link up with them. tough move, i don't know who their right back or right winger is, but hopefully he's able to learn, get better and start some matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 espn reporting yedlin is off to roma. he's being loaned back to seattle to finish out this season and then will link up with them. tough move, i don't know who their right back or right winger is, but hopefully he's able to learn, get better and start some matches.they just signed Cole so he's got a decent LB to learn from Sibdane 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmb Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 Don't think people in Europe realize how big of a problem this is here in the US. In England, if you're 14 years old and good at soccer you get picked up by a professional team and learn from pros. Here, your club team is run by someone's dad and you play for your school team coached by the history teacher. This is something that is started to change. Red Bull New York, for instances, were one of the first teams to implement an academy for U18, U16, etc. Just recently, I believe, they've added U14 and U13. Obviously, the benefits of improved programs for 15 and 16 year olds is not going to be seen for 5-7 years., and even then it's still not perfect. Another thing RBNY want to do is build a physical academy. Players would live there and get schooling there. This is something that I think is common in Europe (correct me if I'm wrong, guys) but is unheard of in the U.S. And then there's the whole problem of the NCAA and its eligibility rules, which is a whole different issue for Klinsmann and US Soccer to tackle. I don't think the US are lacking motivation to become a soccer powerhouse. There are simply many major inherent problems with how our society is structured that put us at a disadvantage compared to other nations. US Soccer is still trying to figure out how to go about fixing that, but I think you're already starting to see massive improvement. This is exactly how I would explain the issue as well. Nicely done. A more trivial issue (but still one that irks me to no end), mentioned by another poster, is our horrendous chanting. "I believe that we will win"? I'm utterly astounded that such a chant even came about. I cringe whenever I hear it and, frankly, it embarasses me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmb Posted July 27, 2014 Report Share Posted July 27, 2014 Oh something I was also hoping to chat about: am I the only one who was disappointed by Zusi in the WC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted July 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2014 Oh something I was also hoping to chat about: am I the only one who was disappointed by Zusi in the WC? yes i was as well. he had the assist for JAB goal winner on the free kick right? other than that he really didn't do anything the rest of the cup. he's too slow, and versus good competition i think it showed, he couldn't get to the byline to cross. meanwhile bedoya who i had high hopes for was fast enough, but he just couldn't put his game together enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinn31 Posted July 27, 2014 Report Share Posted July 27, 2014 yes i was as well. he had the assist for JAB goal winner on the free kick right? other than that he really didn't do anything the rest of the cup. he's too slow, and versus good competition i think it showed, he couldn't get to the byline to cross. meanwhile bedoya who i had high hopes for was fast enough, but he just couldn't put his game together enough. None of our widemen were very good really. I mean, they just had very little impact, which i think hurt us tactically, as Klinsmann set us up in a few matches to be tight and compact in central midfield, meaning that we needed a good effort from our widemen to support Dempsey. It didn't happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted July 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2014 None of our widemen were very good really. I mean, they just had very little impact, which i think hurt us tactically, as Klinsmann set us up in a few matches to be tight and compact in central midfield, meaning that we needed a good effort from our widemen to support Dempsey. It didn't happen. yeah. the thing i learned is that we play well as a team and sometimes that flatter individuals. like bedoya and zusi. if we are passing well and moving the ball and attacking, they look like world beaters, but when that doesn't happen they look like crap. the key thing i pull from this is that we need a standout attacker, someone to either take the team on their back and go, or someone who will be double covered and leave space for someone else to score. we have a fantastic supporting cast, if we could just find a star to support we'd be golden. maybe yedlin, green, fabian? we'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmb Posted July 27, 2014 Report Share Posted July 27, 2014 Yedlin is dynamite. I feel like a hipster because I'm always thinking "I liked him before he got popular," ha. Curious to see how Green develops, haven't seen enough of him. Matt, markjazzbassist, Quinn31 and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirallas Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 I haven't seen much of Yedlin, but after the Belgium - USA game I thought he was one of the lesser impressive Americans tbh. Fast, but unimpressive. What is the buzz all about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 One thing that's been touched on but not fully explained is the importance of universities in the US. I don't know the percentage of teens who go from school to university, but it has to be very much higher than in Britain. At university, they play sports, big time. Indeed, many fans support college football and basketball, for example, more than professional football and basketball. For a player to go straight from high school to a professional sports team is a big risk. What career will they have if they don't make it? What can they do once their life in sports is over? One of my sons went to Georgia Tech, for example. Living in the same dorm was the football team's quarterback and a couple of other star players - all of whom now play for professional teams. They attended classes at Tech like everyone else, despite all the training and practicing needed to play on the team. Many sports stars, once their careers are over, become successful business owners. There's just no equivalent in Britain. It almost goes without saying that anyone who wants to play for a "soccer" team must leave school as soon as possible. How many players have university degrees? Very very few. I'm not sure how soccer will overcome this hurdle in the US. Yedlin is an example of this dilemma. Just 12 months ago, he was still at university. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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