zequist Posted August 2, 2014 Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 Thought this was an excellent blog post, examining the re-sale of Lukaku through the lens of a broader trend happening across Europe. An excerpt from the post: "In terms of football's traditional values, the story of Lukaku and Chelsea is a failure. The club signed one of Europe's most promising players, at some considerable cost, to be the heir to Didier Drogba, and it did not work out. But in terms of football's new reality, that does not matter at all. Chelsea will not feel any embarrassment about signing Lukaku in 2011. They will be delighted they did so. This is because player development, at the world's largest clubs, is no longer about football. It is about business. It is not about honing talent. It is about making profits. It is run according to the rules of the hedge fund -- spread your risk to ensure your reward -- with a mindset borrowed from property development. Nurturing young players is not a team's primary concern, just as a developer does not refit houses to live in them. Chelsea and their peers are not crafting young players. They are flipping them." Bailey, Steve_E and Matt 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted August 2, 2014 Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 Very true, and it's a perfectly viable way to grow a club financially. I have no problem with this at all, and it would be good to see Everton be a little more enterprising in this area. It doesn't have to mean selling your best players: It's all about spotting and developing talent for a profit - money that can then be ploughed back into the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted August 2, 2014 Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 That's not exactly what the OP is saying though really. The point he makes is that big clubs buy the best young talent and leave them to rot unless one just happens to push his way through. Teams like Everton do need to try and develop these players if they are able to get them in because it will help them financially as you say. I do think that agents are to blame for a lot of it. They should be acting on the best interests of their client but instead they go to the money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted August 2, 2014 Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 That's not exactly what the OP is saying though really. The point he makes is that big clubs buy the best young talent and leave them to rot unless one just happens to push his way through. Teams like Everton do need to try and develop these players if they are able to get them in because it will help them financially as you say. I do think that agents are to blame for a lot of it. They should be acting on the best interests of their client but instead they go to the money. It's difficult for us to do that when the likes of Chelsea can come in and spend £12m on potential, as they did with Lukaku. We were interested in him at the same time but we couldn't compete with that. It's that that pisses me off about it - if for not for Chelsea we, or another club, could've got him for a reasonable fee and then developed him. But the likes of Chelsea can overpay to make sure they get the player, then do absolutely nothing to develop him themselves but go on to either make a HUGE profit or get a player ready to play for them. It's depressing . Steve_E 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msloan78 Posted August 2, 2014 Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 Very similar to what Wigan Rl used to do back in their heyday! Could afford to pay over the odds for lads who were effectively going to rot in their reserves, so other teams couldnt get a sniff. Hated it when it happened in rugby league and hate it whilst it happens in football too! rubecula 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted August 2, 2014 Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 It's difficult for us to do that when the likes of Chelsea can come in and spend £12m on potential, as they did with Lukaku. We were interested in him at the same time but we couldn't compete with that. It's that that pisses me off about it - if for not for Chelsea we, or another club, could've got him for a reasonable fee and then developed him. But the likes of Chelsea can overpay to make sure they get the player, then do absolutely nothing to develop him themselves but go on to either make a HUGE profit or get a player ready to play for them. It's depressing . The richest clubs will buy up those with the potential to be the very best, develop them, and then sell them for a profit. Purely as a business venture designed to make money for the team, we could purchase the next level of potential candidates and develop them. I'm guessing that some would turn out to be among the very best (who, of course, we could keep) while a higher percentage would fail the test. What's needed are (i) excellent scouts, (ii) an excellent player development program, and (iii) a good head for business. I'm all for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted August 2, 2014 Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 The richest clubs will buy up those with the potential to be the very best, develop them, and then sell them for a profit. Purely as a business venture designed to make money for the team, we could purchase the next level of potential candidates and develop them. I'm guessing that some would turn out to be among the very best (who, of course, we could keep) while a higher percentage would fail the test. What's needed are (i) excellent scouts, (ii) an excellent player development program, and (iii) a good head for business. I'm all for this. Chelsea, and those other rich clubs, aren't developing them though. That's my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted August 2, 2014 Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 Chelsea, and those other rich clubs, aren't developing them though. That's my point. But Everton could change all that and generate even more cash. At that point, the more talented candidates would be given a real choice: (i) earn more money and stagnate, or (ii) earn decent money and be sought after by the world's best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_E Posted August 2, 2014 Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 But Everton could change all that and generate even more cash. At that point, the more talented candidates would be given a real choice: (i) earn more money and stagnate, or (ii) earn decent money and be sought after by the world's best. The thing is that Everton doesn't have the money to buy players with potential just to loan them out. We're struggling bad enough to sign players ready to make an immediate impact because the money clubs offer those same players (and their agents) better deals and more glamourous prospects and their teams more money. Iamryanstover and Romey 1878 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted August 2, 2014 Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 The thing is that Everton doesn't have the money to buy players with potential just to loan them out. We're struggling bad enough to sign players ready to make an immediate impact because the money clubs offer those same players (and their agents) better deals and more glamourous prospects and their teams more money. Thank you, Steve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zequist Posted August 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 Very true, and it's a perfectly viable way to grow a club financially. I have no problem with this at all, and it would be good to see Everton be a little more enterprising in this area. It doesn't have to mean selling your best players: It's all about spotting and developing talent for a profit - money that can then be ploughed back into the team. I wouldn't mind seeing us do more of this - up to a point. A certain amount of overstocking on youth isn't necessarily a bad thing, because you don't always know who's going to blossom unexpectedly (Coleman) and who's going to plateau early (Vaughn). Now I definitely wouldn't be thrilled with us going the Chelsea route of having 55 U18/U21 players on our books who are never going to get a sniff of the first team and are only here for their re-sale value, but in principle I have no problems with us increasing our investment in potential beyond what we've done up to now, and if we end up making a few extra bucks off the players who don't pan out here, that's just how the game works. We've been behind the curve on acquiring youth talent for years anyway; no club other than maybe Ajax can replenish itself indefinitely on nothing but its own academy graduates, and buying finished products is way more expensive than capturing them on the way up. Very similar to what Wigan Rl used to do back in their heyday! Could afford to pay over the odds for lads who were effectively going to rot in their reserves, so other teams couldnt get a sniff. Hated it when it happened in rugby league and hate it whilst it happens in football too! Used to happen in American college football too - colleges would sign dozens of graduating high school players every year, way more than they needed, just to keep their rivals from getting hold of them. Now the sport limits how many players each school can sign per year AND how many they can keep on scholarship, so that basically can't happen anymore. Chelsea, and those other rich clubs, aren't developing them though. That's my point. And the blog writer's point. Which I agree with - talent hoarding to the extent that the wealthy clubs are doing it isn't good for the players, the game, or anyone else except themselves. But as long as the players are allowing themselves to have their heads turned by the lure of the marquee name and care more about that than they do about furthering their own development by staying in an environment where they will actually play and learn and grow, nothing's ever going to change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted August 2, 2014 Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 But as long as the players are allowing themselves to have their heads turned by the lure of the marquee name and care more about that than they do about furthering their own development by staying in an environment where they will actually play and learn and grow, nothing's ever going to change. This is where I think that the FA or other footballing bodies should step in and implement a system where as youth players are not allowed an agent of gheir choosing until after a certain age. I think it would be a good idea for our FA to have it's own pool of agents that are given to young players who advise and do what's best for a players development and not their bank balance. Whilst I understand this would be highly difficult to implement, if all youth players had an assigned agent (but more like a father figure) who could still broker deals and have the players development as the no1 factor our youth system would benefit massively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted August 2, 2014 Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 It's difficult for us to do that when the likes of Chelsea can come in and spend £12m on potential, as they did with Lukaku. We were interested in him at the same time but we couldn't compete with that. It's that that pisses me off about it - if for not for Chelsea we, or another club, could've got him for a reasonable fee and then developed him. But the likes of Chelsea can overpay to make sure they get the player, then do absolutely nothing to develop him themselves but go on to either make a HUGE profit or get a player ready to play for them. It's depressing . Yeh that's what I was trying to get at. Luckily for Lukaku he has been able to go out on loan and develop but if he had stayed in the Chelsea reserves we would be seeing the player we have now. Loans are helpful but they still aren't the same as being a part of the team that your contracted to. There are so many young prospects out there that don't see the light of day and I think it's worse in the PL than any other major league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamryanstover Posted August 3, 2014 Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 This is where I think that the FA or other footballing bodies should step in and implement a system where as youth players are not allowed an agent of gheir choosing until after a certain age. I think it would be a good idea for our FA to have it's own pool of agents that are given to young players who advise and do what's best for a players development and not their bank balance. Whilst I understand this would be highly difficult to implement, if all youth players had an assigned agent (but more like a father figure) who could still broker deals and have the players development as the no1 factor our youth system would benefit massively. Interesting idea, but big clubs will still come in for them with deep pockets, and many promises. What young players really need to do is watch more football, and see how few youngsters actually play at the sugar daddy clubs. You can see the clubs and managers who give youth a chance. However, none of that matters because players will still see Chelsea offering them 25K per week at age 20. Thats a hell of a lot of money to say no too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 3, 2014 Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 Can we change the title to rich clubs? Money doesn't make you a big club, history does Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cake Posted August 3, 2014 Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 Very true, and it's a perfectly viable way to grow a club financially. I have no problem with this at all, and it would be good to see Everton be a little more enterprising in this area. It doesn't have to mean selling your best players: It's all about spotting and developing talent for a profit - money that can then be ploughed back into the team. Grow a club? Grow a fucking club? What the fuck!!?? Would be good to see Everton be a bit more enterprising in this area! What? We have always developed talent, either bought talent or home grown, and either nurtured it and/or sold it for the common good of Everton Football Club. If you had as much fascination with our football club as you do with our manager you would know these things and not quote corporate bullshit buzz phrases to link us to shite like Chelsea. When Martinez leaves us I hope he goes to Chelsea. You belong there. StevO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted August 3, 2014 Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 Grow a club? Grow a fucking club? What the fuck!!?? Would be good to see Everton be a bit more enterprising in this area! What? We have always developed talent, either bought talent or home grown, and either nurtured it and/or sold it for the common good of Everton Football Club. If you had as much fascination with our football club as you do with our manager you would know these things and not quote corporate bullshit buzz phrases to link us to shite like Chelsea. When Martinez leaves us I hope he goes to Chelsea. You belong there. And I love you too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 Grow a club? Grow a fucking club? What the fuck!!?? Would be good to see Everton be a bit more enterprising in this area! What? We have always developed talent, either bought talent or home grown, and either nurtured it and/or sold it for the common good of Everton Football Club. If you had as much fascination with our football club as you do with our manager you would know these things and not quote corporate bullshit buzz phrases to link us to shite like Chelsea. When Martinez leaves us I hope he goes to Chelsea. You belong there. Bizarre response. All Steve was saying is that we should be "harvesting" the young talent available to sell for a profit later on, with the proceeds going to help the club. Theres no mention that we dont do that already, he's talking about expanding on it and treating as a business venture (like the other rich clubs do) and pointing out whats needed to do it, if I understood correctly. Its a little cold, emotionless even, but it makes perfect business sense. If you can afford to start the ball rolling of course. Cornish Steve 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 Any Belgian contingent know how Engels (Bjorn) is doing at Club Brugge? Still progressing, worth a look in the future? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 Any Belgian contingent know how Engels (Bjorn) is doing at Club Brugge? Still progressing, worth a look in the future? Considering we have a native Belgian who is a Brugge fan, I've got a feeling you'll get an answer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 Considering we have a native Belgian who is a Brugge fan, I've got a feeling you'll get an answer Didn't want to put any one person on the spot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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