MC11 Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 Kevin Sheedy would disagree with you on that. He was a guy in the position to know.http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/26614180 Think this has been done before. If there really was talented youngsters overlooked by Moyes surely they would have progressed elsewhere? That hasn't happened. So maybe they just weren't good enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 He isnt saying they were over looked, he was saying the idea that Moyes was involved in youth development is bollocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 The only two of those who came through to be regular first teamers are Hibbert and Osman, and they were both twenty one when Moyes took over, so hardly youths. All of them were first team regulars. Anichebe even kept Jelavic out the side in Moyes final season a long with a host of substitute appearances in previous seasons. 131 appearances with a poor injury record. Rooney was definitely a first team regular. 67 appearances in 2 seasons. Vaughan (probably the least used but massively injury prone) 47 first team appearances. Rodwell (also injury prone) 85 first team appearances in 5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 (edited) Completely agree, we have a lot of young players who go on to make a good career out of the game, I think thats important too. I'd hate to be one of the lads who is with an academy all their childhood and then gets dropped at 18. But if they can go onto to stay in the game then that has to be seen as a positive, even if it isnt with the club. But the difference from being a good player in the Championship, to making it to the Premier League is only a small margin but its a level that not many get to. I've seen first hand the damage it can do to a young lad. There was a young kid (goalkeeper) called Sean Lake, he got a centre spread in the programme one time then not 2 months later he had been released. He only ever made the bench for the rezzies but we had him from when he was about 8 (I think) but the affect it had on him was to hang up his boots and not bother playing anymore. Whilst I'm not saying that's the right attitude it crushed him that much he just had no drive left in him to carry on elsewhere so packed in. It's not easy to make it many a young hopeful has gone the same way as Sean , maybe that's why they don't make it because they don't have the right attitude, I don't know the answer to be fair but that's the harsh reality of it. This then goes up I in stages. Club offers a contract rather than drop them but they only ever make the under 18s then get released, some only ever make the rezzies and so on. Without going on more (I do like to go on I realise this) you get the picture then only after a ll those stages (if you like) do they become a first team player and even then it's another mountain to climb to get there. Edited August 22, 2014 by Paddock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 I know a lad who was with the Liverpool set up from being a young kid, scored a lot of goals, got a pro contract for two years at the end of his time. Got the money and started coke, didnt get much support from the club. Didnt help him out, no treatment, just dropped him. He got offered a contract at Reading, when they asked Liverpool for a reference (I was shocked that even happened in football) when the drug thing came up the offer was pulled. No excuse for getting involved in that stuff, but these young lads get told all their life they will be footballers, they get a taste of the life and the money and as soon as it goes wrong they can get dropped. This lad fits windows now. I know its different from being not good enough to make it, but its just an example of how tough it can be for these young lads after years of expectation from the clubs, family, friends, it you dont make the grade it can be a nightmare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 I know a lad who was with the Liverpool set up from being a young kid, scored a lot of goals, got a pro contract for two years at the end of his time. Got the money and started coke, didnt get much support from the club. Didnt help him out, no treatment, just dropped him. He got offered a contract at Reading, when they asked Liverpool for a reference (I was shocked that even happened in football) when the drug thing came up the offer was pulled. No excuse for getting involved in that stuff, but these young lads get told all their life they will be footballers, they get a taste of the life and the money and as soon as it goes wrong they can get dropped. This lad fits windows now. I know its different from being not good enough to make it, but its just an example of how tough it can be for these young lads after years of expectation from the clubs, family, friends, it you dont make the grade it can be a nightmare. Totally agree with you and you would think the clubs would have things in place for guidance for these kids. Who's to say he wouldn't of become the next Fowler,Owen etc but because he's young and has no one to guide him he's lost it all. At such a young age that is an extremely harsh way to treat someone (in my opinion) everyone deserves a chance and if the clubs looked after it's youth better then maybe the figures you quoted would be higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 Someone who has the world at their oyster but then chooses to use cocaine has only one person to blame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 (edited) Someone who has the world at their oyster but then chooses to use cocaine has only one person to blame. Yes they do but also at 16 with so much available to you you cannot always be expected to make the right choices in life. Edited August 22, 2014 by Paddock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 Someone who has the world at their oyster but then chooses to use cocaine has only one person to blame. I agree, all his own fault, but guidance is needed for these young lads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 I agree, all his own fault, but guidance is needed for these young lads. guidance and a second chance Paddock 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 guidance and a second chance Everyone deserves a second chance and to let a child (that's what he still was almost) throw his future down the pan like that to me is wrong. We all make bad choices in life fortunately most of us get a chance to put them right. I think all young players who are earning thousands a week should have an advisor and a type of councillor employed by the club who they have to visit once a week yo talk things through with them and offer guidance. Sibdane and Romey 1878 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 I think thats a good idea, maybe something that should be implemented by the PFA if not the clubs. But I guess the PFA only look after them once they turn pro? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted August 22, 2014 Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 I think thats a good idea, maybe something that should be implemented by the PFA if not the clubs. But I guess the PFA only look after them once they turn pro? I think maybe all concerned should get involved and all share the burden so all can also have an input. The club will only have their own best imterest at heart the pfa can also make sure the clubs don't take advantage of the player. StevO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvertonianFL Posted August 23, 2014 Report Share Posted August 23, 2014 Think this has been done before. If there really was talented youngsters overlooked by Moyes surely they would have progressed elsewhere? That hasn't happened. So maybe they just weren't good enough. How about Eric Diers? Or Mustafi who just won a WC with Germany. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted August 23, 2014 Report Share Posted August 23, 2014 (edited) How about Eric Diers? Or Mustafi who just won a WC with Germany. Eric Dier was on a one year loan deal from Sporting to help his development. He was never available to buy. Mustafi wanted first team football every week. He spoke to Moyes about it and Moyes couldn't guarantee him first team football that was 3 seasons ago. He was not ready for our first team. Edited August 23, 2014 by MiguelCotto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 25, 2014 Report Share Posted August 25, 2014 Eric Dier was on a one year loan deal from Sporting to help his development. He was never available to buy. Mustafi wanted first team football every week. He spoke to Moyes about it and Moyes couldn't guarantee him first team football that was 3 seasons ago. He was not ready for our first team. 2 years total wasnt it? Pretty sure he was available to buy but got fed up of waiting and cut his second spell short so any chances we had went down the pan. Neither were good enough at the time for 1st team football as you say, just sick that we haven't kept them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted August 25, 2014 Report Share Posted August 25, 2014 I don't think it was ever a loan to buy deal Matt. I'm sure I seem a recent interview with him and that was made clear. It was for his development. In January 2011, Dier agreed to join Everton on a short-term loan until 30 June. Sporting CP's official website stated that the loan was "an opportunity for the athlete to grow in a more competitive and demanding environment".[9][10] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 25, 2014 Report Share Posted August 25, 2014 (edited) I don't think it was ever a loan to buy deal Matt. I'm sure I seem a recent interview with him and that was made clear. It was for his development. In January 2011, Dier agreed to join Everton on a short-term loan until 30 June. Sporting CP's official website stated that the loan was "an opportunity for the athlete to grow in a more competitive and demanding environment".[9][10] I know that was true for his 1st loan. Pretty sure there was a buy option reported in the press but thats irrelevant anyway since he asked to leave, wouldn't have matter. edit; I am annoyed that we didnt go in for him at 4m though. Stones and Dier as our future CB pairing Edited August 25, 2014 by Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted August 25, 2014 Report Share Posted August 25, 2014 Diet was much of an improvement over Duffy, no point in having both. What is it that people are seeing in Dier? I know he's going through a purple patch but have any of you watched him and thought " now that's a player ", I haven't. He seems a decent player but not one that would improve us in any way. But I do admit I am merely a personnel manager not a football scout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted August 25, 2014 Report Share Posted August 25, 2014 Previous 8 year strategy - Buy United's fringe players. New year strategy - Buy Chelsea's fringe players. Bossed. StevO and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted August 25, 2014 Report Share Posted August 25, 2014 Previous 8 year strategy - Buy United's fringe players. New year strategy - Buy Chelsea's fringe players. Bossed. Fucking boom!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.