Why do the journalists give Martinez a pass?

[chalkpie]

I hope the journalists are reading this thread, because that is my intent........

 

Why do you give Martinez a pass and skate around the tough questions? When was the last time ANY journalist asked what is Martinez's plan to build this defence? What's the plan in detail?

 

(for Martinez specifically): Why do your players look so lethargic on the pitch? What is your solution to motivate them? You promised a better season one year ago, yet we sit in the same spot in the table - why? Are you fearful of getting sacked due to poor results? Why are you so resistant to changing your philosophies when the current ones clearly aren't working? Are you worried that the fans have had enough of the results this season and are ready to abandon ship? How much more time do you need to start getting some results? Why do some of your players look like they would rather be elsewhere when they are on the pitch?

 

Journalists can start there. None or very little is being asked towards Martinez. He is a big boy who gets paid a lot of money to get positive results and those results are virtually non-existent. Why does almost every other manager including Mourinho, Van Gaal, Rodgers, Sherwood, etc all get bombarded with the tough questions and Martinez gets a pass? The insanity of this situation is almost not believable.

 

Journalists: Please, do your job, and stop avoiding the tough questions. These players make a ton of money and need to be held accountable, and its starts at the top with the manager. Martinez owes everybody answers, regardless of how uncomfortable they may be.

 

 

[MC11]

Because we're Everton & quite frankly the media don't care how well we're doing. Not a big club.

[chalkpie]

Because we're Everton & quite frankly the media don't care how well we're doing. Not a big club.

 

Well that's unacceptable. Whether you are a nursery school teacher, a waitress, a prime minster, or a football coach, you are expected to do your job well, and if you don't, then you need to be held accountable. Martinez is not exempt from this, just as you and I aren't from our professions each and every day.

 

I disagree about this club not being a big club - Everton is ranked 4th in all-time winners of title champions in English Football (as you know) - that to me says we are not only a big club, but a huge club. This club is also ranked 18th in the world in terms of the wealthiest football clubs - there is a TON of money and people involved in the day-to-day proceedings here at Everton. We need to start believing in ourselves that we are not some small potato local lower division team. We should have ultra-high expectations for a club of this caliber, and if these expectations aren't met, then the tough questions need to be asked. Its not happening now, and I for one refuse to accept this, and so should everybody else who has some connection with this club. No exceptions made - regardless of how nice or well-spoken somebody is.

 

The media needs to address this and do it NOW, not at the end of the season or in the summer.

 

We need to demand answers from Martinez, and not in a 3-minute post match interview discussing how bad the refs calls were, or how unlucky the team was. That is pure bullshit fluff - jouralists need to delve into the REAL STUFF.

[Chach]

I would say a large part of it is that Martinez's Everton aren't boring, writing about them is easy and they expected the results to have turned around by now.

Its starting now though and if we next knocked out of the league cup the flood gates are going to open and he will be under a pressure he's never felt before.

We may not be a big money club but we are a big club.

[Shukes]

They don't.

All I have read the last week is how it's not good enough and how he can't get us to win.

Read through the threads, most are even linked.

 

Not sure how that's a free pass. One is even saying if he doesn't get through to the final it could be his job and that a Europe run last year masked a mediocre season.

[Shukes]

And the chairman should be holding him accountable not the media.

[Lowensda]

Because he's a 'nice' guy and never says anything bad about the press. He always treats them with respect and jokes with them pre-conferences. They don't wish to upset him.

[johnh]

Article in the Telegraph Sport today. Sub-heading reads:

 

'Pressure is growing and the manager's fate could hinge on the result of the Capital One Cup semi-final tomorrow'

 

and

 

'Martinez is a likeable manager but has to do far better with what he has available.'

[Romey 1878]

Article in the Telegraph Sport today. Sub-heading reads:

 

'Pressure is growing and the manager's fate could hinge on the result of the Capital One Cup semi-final tomorrow'

 

and

 

'Martinez is a likeable manager but has to do far better with what he has available.'

 

It says it all that it's taken the best part of 2 season for it to start though.

[dlblue]

Because we are little old Everton. Even under Moyes when we used to challenge for top 5 positions, we'd be written off every summer by the media. Always been the same. They only care about the 'Money Teams'.

[Hafnia]

I don't think he does get a pass - with Chelsea and Man United having their managers fail then we are down the pecking order. Aside from that the miracle worker Klopp hasn't been so amazing either.

 

Most journos and commentators have been saying Everton should be doing much better than they are - so I don't think its a valid point to say otherwise.

 

Are you saying that the press should be doing a witch hunt that sees Martinez sacked/cower into a ball and tell everyone he will turn us into a defensive collosus?

 

In reality Martinez can point to his net spend and argue that he is doing a good job overall - after all isn't that what Moyes did?

 

I want a defensive midset change from Martinez as much as anyone but lets look at it like this:-

 

2013-2014:- Nearly got champs league, most goals and points scored in our prem league history

 

2014-2015:- poor league season but a strong europa campaign

 

2015-2016:- wasted points in league and highly frustrating but in a cup semi final

 

it's hardly a list of failures - more a case of "could do better".

 

Do people think that there is a genius just waiting to get given the green light to manage us and work miracles of a pretty low net spend? Personally I don't.

 

I think some fans want martinez to go a snap a branch off a tree so they can beat him with it, his defiance is irritating them more than anything else.

[chalkpie]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/roberto-martinez-must-take-responsibility-10786063

 

More of this please. This is a start.

 

Also, ask the tough questions to his face. He was asked what he is going to do to improve the defence last week, and just like an experienced politician he skated around the answer in his usual bullshit manner. No, not good enough. Ask him again - "I'm sorry Roberto - I didn't really catch the answer to my question - could you please answer in detail how you are going to address the defence?"

 

Haf, your list of Martinez's accolades is not something Martinez should be proud of, nor should us as fans. The only thing that matters is that we finished 5th two years ago, and maybe that could have been 4th? Why settle for mediocrity?

 

As for folks pointing out articles - that's fine - these articles should have been written over a year ago when we were in the same exact position in the league.

 

And yes, Kenwright and/or the board owes us answers too.

[dlblue]

I don't think he does get a pass - with Chelsea and Man United having their managers fail then we are down the pecking order. Aside from that the miracle worker Klopp hasn't been so amazing either.

 

Most journos and commentators have been saying Everton should be doing much better than they are - so I don't think its a valid point to say otherwise.

 

Are you saying that the press should be doing a witch hunt that sees Martinez sacked/cower into a ball and tell everyone he will turn us into a defensive collosus?

 

In reality Martinez can point to his net spend and argue that he is doing a good job overall - after all isn't that what Moyes did?

 

I want a defensive midset change from Martinez as much as anyone but lets look at it like this:-

 

2013-2014:- Nearly got champs league, most goals and points scored in our prem league history

 

2014-2015:- poor league season but a strong europa campaign

 

2015-2016:- wasted points in league and highly frustrating but in a cup semi final

 

it's hardly a list of failures - more a case of "could do better".

 

Do people think that there is a genius just waiting to get given the green light to manage us and work miracles of a pretty low net spend? Personally I don't.

 

I think some fans want martinez to go a snap a branch off a tree so they can beat him with it, his defiance is irritating them more than anything else.

 

The frustrating thing for me is that we are so close to being good. Just need to sort that defence and keeper out.

Edited January 26, 2016 by Dean

[chalkpie]

 

The frustrating thing for me is that we are so close to being good. Just need to sort that defence and keeper out.

 

After seeing that Swansea fiasco, I totally disagree with this. ZERO pressure on that team, walking around like zombies, stupid idiotic plays costing us a penalty....the klist goes on.

 

We are light years from being good. We are sitting 12th, just like one year ago. How is that being almost good? We are much closer to the relegation zone than the top 4. We have conceded the most goals at home compared to any other team tin the prem.

 

I think its so far gone at this point. Martinez doesn't change, our tactics don't change, we play the same mediocre (at best) keeper every match. This man is not inspiring this team, its plain and simple. A team like Leicester is so close to being good for all the right reasons - they give a shit on the pitch. The manager obviously inspires them and they make runs, make tackles, they show spirit and energy.

 

I used to think that we are close to being good, but now I am seeing through that. If that was really true, our goal difference column would be much larger, our place in the table would be much much better, and our display on the pitch would be much much better. We are a fucking joke to play against, especially at Goodison.

[Hafnia]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/roberto-martinez-must-take-responsibility-10786063

 

More of this please. This is a start.

 

Also, ask the tough questions to his face. He was asked what he is going to do to improve the defence last week, and just like an experienced politician he skated around the answer in his usual bullshit manner. No, not good enough. Ask him again - "I'm sorry Roberto - I didn't really catch the answer to my question - could you please answer in detail how you are going to address the defence?"

 

Haf, your list of Martinez's accolades is not something Martinez should be proud of, nor should us as fans. The only thing that matters is that we finished 5th two years ago, and maybe that could have been 4th? Why settle for mediocrity?

 

As for folks pointing out articles - that's fine - these articles should have been written over a year ago when we were in the same exact position in the league.

 

And yes, Kenwright and/or the board owes us answers too.

 

Its all very well quoting the league position - we are 8 points off 5th place and 8 points off 18th, what does that tell you? It tells you that more teams are sharing the spoils than ever before - is it good enough? No, but the position in the table is being used as spin to bash Martinez with.

 

We don't need spin - we are fans who are able to form an opinion without the need of points to to do that.

 

The facts:-

 

We have a group of players who are performing in an unprofessional and lazy manner. They are better than this.

 

Our manager is his own worst enemy with the stuff he comes out with and his stubborness.

 

Some of our players need a thorough dressing down. Conflict with fans is creating a divisde i've never seen before.

 

We play some of the best attacking football and some of the worst defensive football I have seen.

 

Both the manager and players are accountable.

 

We need a new keeper, we need a leader on the pitch.

 

 

Chalkpie - I will ask a straight question "why is Martinez 'achievements' something to be critical of, when in all honesty most fans accepted Moyes promise of a top 7 trophy and not much else?"

 

I see the clear need for improvement and if needs be "change", but lets get some consistency here.

[Shukes]

I completely understand your frustration but there are a few things to look at.

 

We aren't much closer to relegation than to for, it's pretty much half way.

 

We are close to being very good, we have good foundations and need to build now.

 

He doesn't have to answer to the press. He has a boss for that.

 

Swansea was a shambles...your right.

But to be fair that performance was the worst I have witnessed for a few months, and before that we looked to be turning a corner with good performances against city and Chelsea.

 

Sunday has soured even me, the eternal optimist. But I am trying to tell myself it could be that final straw we need to go out and fight for our lives.

[chalkpie]

 

Chalkpie - I will ask a straight question "why is Martinez 'achievements' something to be critical of, when in all honesty most fans accepted Moyes promise of a top 7 trophy and not much else?"

 

I see the clear need for improvement and if needs be "change", but lets get some consistency here.

 

I never once said that the Moyes era was necessarily good enough either. But then again he didn't have this current crop of talent like we do today.

 

For me its simple - when I look at Spurs and Leicester for example, I scratch my head in disbelief that we are so far behind those teams. Are they REALLY that much talented than us? I don't have any scientific method of proving that but I would say if anything, EFC has at least the amount of talent as those teams, if not more so. So what is the difference then? Well just any organization or company, it all starts at the top. What would Ranieri or Ponchettino be doing with the talented squad we have? Possibly even better things.

 

To me, an achievement is not sitting where we are in the table, or watching us throw away match after match, or seeing a team on the pitch with body language implying that they would rather be home on their sofas rather than to make another run to press the opposition. An achievement is not using the same tactical approach match after match when we cannot close out matches.

 

Would Sir Alex put up with this bullshit? Would Roy Keane be all smiles on the pitch watching his teammates perform in the manner that they do?

 

Sorry to say I don't view Martinez as having achieved anything since he been here besides a Europa League qualification, which could have been a Champions League qualification in another set of hands. I used to admire Martinez in the beginning, I loved his erudite and positive manner. I loved the fact that he was a class act when so many other managers were/are total cunts. But you know what? His inability to criticize/question his players is reflected in the manner of play on the pitch. No team fears us and for good reason. Howard is the perfect example. When does a generally poor performance for the better part of 20 months now grant you "phenomenal character and leadership" match after match without ANY fear of getting dropped for even one game?

 

The sad part of this whole thing is that I do believe Martinez is talented, maybe even capable of winning a title. But it goes beyond tactics to inspire a team to greater things. How long do we wait for this supposed magic that is going to happen? When we start winning matches, start showing some do or die attitude, then I will be the first person to acknowledge any achievements from Martinez. We have been waiting a long time, and here we are still waiting. IMO of course.

[Hafnia]

 

I never once said that the Moyes era was necessarily good enough either. But then again he didn't have this current crop of talent like we do today.

 

For me its simple - when I look at Spurs and Leicester for example, I scratch my head in disbelief that we are so far behind those teams. Are they REALLY that much talented than us? I don't have any scientific method of proving that but I would say if anything, EFC has at least the amount of talent as those teams, if not more so. So what is the difference then? Well just any organization or company, it all starts at the top. What would Ranieri or Ponchettino be doing with the talented squad we have? Possibly even better things.

 

To me, an achievement is not sitting where we are in the table, or watching us throw away match after match, or seeing a team on the pitch with body language implying that they would rather be home on their sofas rather than to make another run to press the opposition. An achievement is not using the same tactical approach match after match when we cannot close out matches.

 

Would Sir Alex put up with this bullshit? Would Roy Keane be all smiles on the pitch watching his teammates perform in the manner that they do?

 

Sorry to say I don't view Martinez as having achieved anything since he been here besides a Europa League qualification, which could have been a Champions League qualification in another set of hands. I used to admire Martinez in the beginning, I loved his erudite and positive manner. I loved the fact that he was a class act when so many other managers were/are total cunts. But you know what? His inability to criticize/question his players is reflected in the manner of play on the pitch. No team fears us and for good reason. Howard is the perfect example. When does a generally poor performance for the better part of 20 months now grant you "phenomenal character and leadership" match after match without ANY fear of getting dropped for even one game?

 

The sad part of this whole thing is that I do believe Martinez is talented, maybe even capable of winning a title. But it goes beyond tactics to inspire a team to greater things. How long do we wait for this supposed magic that is going to happen? When we start winning matches, start showing some do or die attitude, then I will be the first person to acknowledge any achievements from Martinez. We have been waiting a long time, and here we are still waiting. IMO of course.

 

Its funny - a squad "of this talent"....

 

Yes I agree... Stones, Mori, McCarthy, Barry, Besic, Lukaku, Deulofeu, Barkley all brought through by Martinez - the net spend is £29m...

 

In 3 transfer windows that is £10m per year - the cost of this is somewhat inflated by the need to get rid of Distin and alcaraz for zero and replace them with younger players (Mori and Galloway) - personally I think he has changed the demographics of our squad very well indeed. The team he inherited had become very old.

 

So for me, his player aquisition has been very good indeed - we were all very nervous about the increasing age of our squad, I think he has refreshed it very well.

 

Playing wise? Much improvement needed - he at least deserves a little more time, he has earned it.

[MC11]

Its funny - a squad "of this talent"....

 

Yes I agree... Stones, Mori, McCarthy, Barry, Besic, Lukaku, Deulofeu, Barkley all brought through by Martinez - the net spend is £29m...

 

In 3 transfer windows that is £10m per year - the cost of this is somewhat inflated by the need to get rid of Distin and alcaraz for zero and replace them with younger players (Mori and Galloway) - personally I think he has changed the demographics of our squad very well indeed. The team he inherited had become very old.

 

So for me, his player aquisition has been very good indeed - we were all very nervous about the increasing age of our squad, I think he has refreshed it very well.

 

Playing wise? Much improvement needed - he at least deserves a little more time, he has earned it.

 

What was Moyes net spend In his first 2 & 1/2 seasons or as a matter of fact throughout his tenure? Whilst I agree he's brought in some good players it doesn't hide away the fact that he's not getting the best out of them. It's like starting a business as a builder, having all the best tools and equipment but not knowing how to use them. You end up being a cowboy. In Martinez case he's looking more and more like a charlatan each week. 12 months on from when people were first getting restless we're still in the same boat. He's 100% not he right bloke for the job. He talks a good talk but I saw through that pretty much straight away. Bullshitter.

[Hafnia]

What was Moyes net spend In his first 2 & 1/2 seasons or as a matter of fact throughout his tenure? Whilst I agree he's brought in some good players it doesn't hide away the fact that he's not getting the best out of them. It's like starting a business as a builder, having all the best tools and equipment but not knowing how to use them. You end up being a cowboy. In Martinez case he's looking more and more like a charlatan each week. 12 months on from when people were first getting restless we're still in the same boat. He's 100% not he right bloke for the job. He talks a good talk but I saw through that pretty much straight away. Bullshitter.

 

obviously you would have to adjust for inflation as 13 years ago the market was so much cheaper than it is now.

 

For me it will likely be pretty similar - Moyes used the Rooney money to sort out that old squad of players and the inflated sales of lescott, rodwell etc were pretty favourable.

 

Essentially what I am saying is that Martinez's player acquisusitions have been very very strong.

 

What I think irritates you more than anything else about Martinez is what he says - I get that. When things were rosie it was great listening to him, when things aren't you can see that he is just spouting nonsense and it insults the intelligence - fans don't like that.

 

I kinda just ignore a lot of what he says and see if his tactics and player selections improve. At the moment they aren't good andI expect him to change or I will be calling for him to go myself.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

 

Its all very well quoting the league position - we are 8 points off 5th place and 8 points off 18th, what does that tell you? It tells you that more teams are sharing the spoils than ever before - is it good enough? No, but the position in the table is being used as spin to bash Martinez with.

 

We don't need spin - we are fans who are able to form an opinion without the need of points to to do that.

 

The facts:-

 

We have a group of players who are performing in an unprofessional and lazy manner. They are better than this.

 

Our manager is his own worst enemy with the stuff he comes out with and his stubborness.

 

Some of our players need a thorough dressing down. Conflict with fans is creating a divisde i've never seen before.

 

We play some of the best attacking football and some of the worst defensive football I have seen.

 

Both the manager and players are accountable.

 

We need a new keeper, we need a leader on the pitch.

 

 

Chalkpie - I will ask a straight question "why is Martinez 'achievements' something to be critical of, when in all honesty most fans accepted Moyes promise of a top 7 trophy and not much else?"

 

I see the clear need for improvement and if needs be "change", but lets get some consistency here.

 

I agree with most of what you are saying but how can you claim that using the league position to bash him is spin??

 

His number one objective as manager of our football club is surely to get us as high up the league as possible and he is failing badly in that respect. Last season was our lowest league finish in over a decade, this year he is on course to finish even lower . That is not spin it is fact

 

The frustrating thing is that we have such a great group of players and we are tantalisingly close to being a very good side. So I agree that you have to give him great credit for assembling the squad he has but the list of failings is starting to overshadow the good he has done

 

• No back to back league wins for over 9 months
• Worst defensive record in the league this season
• Most individual error leading to goals last season
• Worst league finish in over a decade
• 3 wins at home all season ( all against the bottom 3)
• Only a 26 % win ratio this season
• 31% win ratio last season

That isn't good enough for Everton Football Club and if he was fired tomorrow I don't think he could have any complaints . Yes we have played some great attacking football and scored plenty of goals this season , but its easy to do that with the players we have and you just throw caution to the wind. When you compare our attacking play to our defence, an analogy about the Shite I heard last season is even more applicable to us now and that is " Its like seeing a Ferrari towing a caravan"

 

If he is anywhere near as good a manager that we all hope he can be then he has to find a happy medium, and quickly

[Hafnia]

 

I agree with most of what you are saying but how can you claim that using the league position to bash him is spin??

 

His number one objective as manager of our football club is surely to get us as high up the league as possible and he is failing badly in that respect. Last season was our lowest league finish in over a decade, this year he is on course to finish even lower . That is not spin it is fact

 

The frustrating thing is that we have such a great group of players and we are tantalisingly close to being a very good side. So I agree that you have to give him great credit for assembling the squad he has but the list of failings is starting to overshadow the good he has done

 

• No back to back league wins for over 9 months
• Worst defensive record in the league this season
• Most individual error leading to goals last season
• Worst league finish in over a decade
• 3 wins at home all season ( all against the bottom 3)
• Only a 26 % win ratio this season
• 31% win ratio last season

That isn't good enough for Everton Football Club and if he was fired tomorrow I don't think he could have any complaints . Yes we have played some great attacking football and scored plenty of goals this season , but its easy to do that with the players we have and you just throw caution to the wind. When you compare our attacking play to our defence, an analogy about the Shite I heard last season is even more applicable to us now and that is " Its like seeing a Ferrari towing a caravan"

 

If he is anywhere near as good a manager that we all hope he can be then he has to find a happy medium, and quickly

 

My point is a few wins and the league will look totally different - to do that the defence needs sorting. Iactually think our problems should not be difficult to remedy.

[London Blue]

Do the players still have confidence is Martinez?

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

 

My point is a few wins and the league will look totally different - to do that the defence needs sorting. Iactually think our problems should not be difficult to remedy.

Nor do I but going from past experience he will stick to his guns until the very end, just ask any Wigan fan

[nogs]

 

My point is a few wins and the league will look totally different - to do that the defence needs sorting. Iactually think our problems should not be difficult to remedy.

This seems to sum up a lot of where you find room to defend Martinez exactly where I can't - it should be easy to solve, yet he isn't solving it. Tells me all I need to know, this is hardly a knee-jerk reaction, it is the result of a season and a half of our club going backwards.

 

And yes, I believe we have gone backwards under Martinez. The league table doesn't lie, and love him or hate him, Moyes knew how to grind out results, something I don't believe Martinez has in his locker.