US Politics/Biden Presidency (Trump-free zone)

[MikeO]

7 minutes ago, johnh said:

Not sure I have ever come across anyone who has stood based on their principles and what they believe to be right.  Probably Michael Foot comes closest.  Incidentally, how did holystove answer the question?

I find that a bit sad, I don't think @holystove has answered the question yet (if you're talking about my question). it was his initial comment and your response to it that I was interested in. Hopefully he'll address it at some point.

[holystove]

9 hours ago, MikeO said:

So what you're saying is that people should not stand for office based on their principles and what they believe to be right, they should just say and do what the electorate (for which read tabloid press) want? Might as well just make Rupert Murdoch PM and do away with the election palaver.

By 'Democrats' I was referring to the people who vote in the primaries, not the candidates (who I assume are all principled and genuinely believe they are the best person to lead the USA).

If you are voting in the primary, you might prefer Sanders because his agenda is the most 'left' (purity), but you should be aware once the general public get to vote, they might think your candidate too extreme (electability);

[Sibdane]

15 hours ago, holystove said:

but you should be aware once the general public get to vote, they might think your candidate too extreme (electability);

This is my worry with Sanders' appeal to the general public. 

[MikeO]

On 26/02/2020 at 14:15, Sibdane said:

This is my worry with Sanders' appeal to the general public. 

Looking likely Biden will be the candidate after yesterday (from here at least), will he have wider appeal?

[Sibdane]

5 hours ago, MikeO said:

Looking likely Biden will be the candidate after yesterday (from here at least), will he have wider appeal?

I agree with RPG. I don't think any of the democratic candidates have a chance to beat Trump at this point. 

[markjazzbassist]

5 hours ago, MikeO said:

Looking likely Biden will be the candidate after yesterday (from here at least), will he have wider appeal?

he is from union steel working family in a poor/middle class area.  he is the exact type of person Trump won over, so he could potentially win those people back.  Also the Black folks love him because he and Obama are best friends and he was his VP, so he gets that vote too.  Well educated and young people don't like him (they love Bernie).  Also he's not big with Latinos (also bernie people).  Those are his issues.  He's a career politician, he knows the game and everything which is an advantage in my eyes.  The disadvantage is Trump isn't playing by those rules so it negates it to a degree.

 

I'd vote for him over Trump but i still hope it's Bernie.

[Palfy]

5 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

he is from union steel working family in a poor/middle class area.  he is the exact type of person Trump won over, so he could potentially win those people back.  Also the Black folks love him because he and Obama are best friends and he was his VP, so he gets that vote too.  Well educated and young people don't like him (they love Bernie).  Also he's not big with Latinos (also bernie people).  Those are his issues.  He's a career politician, he knows the game and everything which is an advantage in my eyes.  The disadvantage is Trump isn't playing by those rules so it negates it to a degree.

 

I'd vote for him over Trump but i still hope it's Bernie.

Bernie won California is that looked at as a big win being it’s a big and prosperous state, which I must admit surprised me slightly I would have thought  he would have been to left for Californians. 

[markjazzbassist]

24 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Bernie won California is that looked at as a big win being it’s a big and prosperous state, which I must admit surprised me slightly I would have thought  he would have been to left for Californians. 

yes but the media hates bernie because he's a "socialist" so they are out to get him.  he doesn't get a lot of good press.  biden is their darling.

[Palfy]

1 hour ago, markjazzbassist said:

yes but the media hates bernie because he's a "socialist" so they are out to get him.  he doesn't get a lot of good press.  biden is their darling.

I get that politics by the media moguls, it’s played out by the rich for rich, and anyone who might break up their party is ostracised. 
Would Biden be able to oust Trump in your opinion 

[markjazzbassist]

14 minutes ago, Palfy said:

I get that politics by the media moguls, it’s played out by the rich for rich, and anyone who might break up their party is ostracised. 
Would Biden be able to oust Trump in your opinion 

i don't think so sadly.  we're stuck with the fat orange fuck for another 4 years.  

[Palfy]

6 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

i don't think so sadly.  we're stuck with the fat orange fuck for another 4 years.  

[dunlopp9987]

5 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

i don't think so sadly.  we're stuck with the fat orange fuck for another 4 years.  

I've been preparing myself for another Trump victory for a year or so now. Because I can't take another day like 4 years ago when it felt like someone had kicked me in the gut.

November 9th, 2016 was an eerie day, the morning after the election. I was working at a restaurant at the time and it was an appropriately gloomy day, and everyone from the staff to the customers felt like we were at a funeral. Oddly enough, that feeling wasn't far off, as we've seen the death of democracy under Drumpf. 

The primary here in New York isn't until the end of April, so things might already be decided by then, but I'll be casting my vote for Warren whether she's still in the race or not. 

[markjazzbassist]

9 minutes ago, dunlopp9987 said:

I've been preparing myself for another Trump victory for a year or so now. Because I can't take another day like 4 years ago when it felt like someone had kicked me in the gut.

November 9th, 2016 was an eerie day, the morning after the election. I was working at a restaurant at the time and it was an appropriately gloomy day, and everyone from the staff to the customers felt like we were at a funeral. Oddly enough, that feeling wasn't far off, as we've seen the death of democracy under Drumpf. 

The primary here in New York isn't until the end of April, so things might already be decided by then, but I'll be casting my vote for Warren whether she's still in the race or not. 

one of my good friends i just had drinks with is an ardent Warren supporter too.  I'll vote Bernie in the primary but i'll coalesce behind whomever gets the nomination.

[Palfy]

10 minutes ago, dunlopp9987 said:

I've been preparing myself for another Trump victory for a year or so now. Because I can't take another day like 4 years ago when it felt like someone had kicked me in the gut.

November 9th, 2016 was an eerie day, the morning after the election. I was working at a restaurant at the time and it was an appropriately gloomy day, and everyone from the staff to the customers felt like we were at a funeral. Oddly enough, that feeling wasn't far off, as we've seen the death of democracy under Drumpf. 

The primary here in New York isn't until the end of April, so things might already be decided by then, but I'll be casting my vote for Warren whether she's still in the race or not. 

To be honest that was a day that shocked a lot of people from all over the world. 

[dunlopp9987]

18 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

one of my good friends i just had drinks with is an ardent Warren supporter too.  I'll vote Bernie in the primary but i'll coalesce behind whomever gets the nomination.

Oh absolutely. Was just chatting with my mom about this, and I think we'll see a difference between 2016 and now in terms of people voting for a third party or just sitting it out if their preferred candidate isn't on the ticket. I think in 2016, the Bernie supporters who didn't vote for Hillary assumed she would still beat Drumpf regardless, whereas now I have a feeling we will all be much more likely to rally around whomever wins the nomination, even if they're not our cup of tea. 

[Chach]

Biden's odds of winning in November have shortened to 2-1, I don't know if I'm surprised or not whether the Dems think he is the best candidate. I have such a boner for Trump to be a one term Prez I am finding it hard to be objective.

Trump was elected on the lowest turnout since 1996, voter turnout is well up on 2016 in the primaries which is hopeful. Listening to this podcast Sean Carroll did with left wing policy wonk Ezra Klein (about his new book) on the current polarisation of western politics, apparently swing voters are much less of factor in the current environment and it's more about "base mobilisation" (this would explain why Corbyn failed so hard)  If that is the case the sooner, and cleaner the nomination is made the better.

 

[Chach]

22 hours ago, Sibdane said:

I agree with RPG. I don't think any of the democratic candidates have a chance to beat Trump at this point. 

Biden Warren 2020, it will be a cakewalk.

[Chach]

"Don't know much about history
Don't know much biology
Don't know much about a science book
Don't know much about the French I took

But I do know that I love me
And I know that if you love me, too
What a wonderful world this would be"

Amazing

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-coronavirus-flu-vaccine-us-pandemic-meeting-leonard-schleifer-a9371286.html?fbclid=IwAR2phULzV7SKT4wfuYi4gHlYzLxhPImF6RC71jKD50w-EfWyUIsqr8hZypE

[Chach]

He has the best ideas.

Flu Vaccine.

 

[markjazzbassist]

i can't wait to hear mike pence's ideas on how to combat it.  he is the public health czar now and has no experience or knowledge of public health, other than trying to defund it in Indiana.

[Sibdane]

4 hours ago, Chach said:

Biden Warren 2020, it will be a cakewalk.

Possible with Warren dropping out!

[markjazzbassist]

i'm hearing stacey abrams, kamala harris, or klobchar for Biden VP.  

[Chach]

6 hours ago, Sibdane said:

Possible with Warren dropping out!

If he wants to make sure everyone turns out it's one down from Biden Sanders lol

6 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

i'm hearing stacey abrams, kamala harris, or klobchar for Biden VP.  

All solid picks in terms of succession planning, I think everyone should be able to agree there's no way Biden can do 8 years.

[markjazzbassist]

9 minutes ago, Chach said:

If he wants to make sure everyone turns out it's one down from Biden Sanders lol

All solid picks in terms of succession planning, I think everyone should be able to agree there's no way Biden can do 8 years.

Yeah, Bernie needs to do the same he is just as old.  Abrams has very little experience, she is not a good pick for me.  Klobuchar is very blah.  Kamala would be my choice, she’s been effective and she has experience.  She could help nab California for him too.

[holystove]

8 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

Yeah, Bernie needs to do the same he is just as old.  Abrams has very little experience, she is not a good pick for me.  Klobuchar is very blah.  Kamala would be my choice, she’s been effective and she has experience.  She could help nab California for him too.

Shouldn't the VP be from a swing state though?   California seems pretty safe for the Democrats.

[markjazzbassist]

6 hours ago, holystove said:

Shouldn't the VP be from a swing state though?   California seems pretty safe for the Democrats.

no because that's just one state.  the VP needs to stand for something to get people to vote IMO.  A woman, well that's a start and all are.  Black/latino (kamala is indian and african american, abrams is african american) that helps too.  the VP doesn't do anything.  but if they can mobilize a base (like women, or minorities) then that is a positive.  alternatively if there is a political base (none of them differ much from biden, so a no there) like if mccain had gotten liberman that would have helped.

 

abrams and harris make the most sense, but harris is a US senator, abrams only was in the state house of reps in georgia.  

 

at least that's how i see it, i'm sure others will see it differently.

[Chach]

9 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

abrams and harris make the most sense, but harris is a US senator, abrams only was in the state house of reps in georgia.  

at least that's how i see it, i'm sure others will see it differently.

All I know about Abrams is from watching her State of the Union response and reading her Wiki's but she only just missed out on being the first African American Governor by a gnats chuff and has been a legislator since 2007 so on the balance I think just as strong as Harris. It's been fairly ordinary rich white men all the way back on that measure these two are both over qualified IMO.

This is heart breaking, but also could be a positive. 

https://fortune.com/2018/04/24/stacey-abrams-debt-georgia-governor/

[Cornish Steve]

3 hours ago, Chach said:

All I know about Abrams is from watching her State of the Union response and reading her Wiki's but she only just missed out on being the first African American Governor by a gnats chuff and has been a legislator since 2007 so on the balance I think just as strong as Harris. It's been fairly ordinary rich white men all the way back on that measure these two are both over qualified IMO.

This is heart breaking, but also could be a positive. 

https://fortune.com/2018/04/24/stacey-abrams-debt-georgia-governor/

She stood for governor in Georgia and lost. I'm not sure why all the hype.

[Chach]

1 hour ago, Cornish Steve said:

She stood for governor in Georgia and lost. I'm not sure why all the hype.

Not sure I've seen much "hype" about her so to speak, but do you think narrowly losing a gubernatorial campaign makes her less qualified for the VP spot somehow?

I would have thought if she won, then that would definitely would have ruled her out, historically (this time might be slightly different with the pushing 80's candidates?) it's a bit of a nothing position and largely symbolic. Like Mark said from a base mobilisation perspective she ticks a few boxes.

[Palfy]

16 hours ago, Chach said:

Not sure I've seen much "hype" about her so to speak, but do you think narrowly losing a gubernatorial campaign makes her less qualified for the VP spot somehow?

I would have thought if she won, then that would definitely would have ruled her out, historically (this time might be slightly different with the pushing 80's candidates?) it's a bit of a nothing position and largely symbolic. Like Mark said from a base mobilisation perspective she ticks a few boxes.

Haven’t got a clue to honest my moneys on what ever