Who Are We and What Do We Want?

[Bailey]

Following on from the comments by Cahill and Henry about losing our identity, losing patience with our recent managers and not knowing what we want as fans, I cant help but agree with them somewhat. Moyes was stale and negative, Martinez tried to be attacking and different but he way of doing it was not really the Everton way, and when it comes to Koeman, Unsworth and Allardyce, I couldn't really tell you what they were trying to achieve, albeit I can say without doubt that it isn'tt good enough. Therefore what do we want from an Everton team? What style of football do we want to see? Some of you might say winning football but I don't think you can be a winning manager without having a clear idea of how you want your team to play football and that is what has let us down for many years now, even under Moyes at times.

My question to you, the TT posse, is based upon the 20 managers in the Premier League right now, who has the style of play that would best suit Everton and what we want from our side in the future? Do we want defensive strength and limited attacking flair like Mourinho or Dyche? Do we want to play out from the back with patient attacking football like Pep and control the game? Do you want to see us press aggressively and counter attack, taking risks like Klopp, or being more disciplined like Poch? Would you like to see a manager bring in a group of players he trusts and gradually build a side like Howe has at Bournemouth where mental qualities, team work and trust are more important that individual talent?

Whilst I have complete admiration for Pep and the way he has manufactured this title winning City team, I am not sure it would sit with Everton. Martinez was a shit version, but we don't have that patience. We have had the highly structured defend first managers and I dont think we suit them either. We need to get Goodison rocking, we need the crowd up from the first minute, a belief that we can score at any moment and for that I think we need to go down the Poch / Klopp route. As much as it pains me to say it, Klopp would be a perfect fit because whilst there would  ultimately be some disappointment (its not like we aren't used to it!), we would have a real go every game, home or away, and brick by brick he is building a team in his image which ironically includes a lot of British players at its core. He is also animated, you can see he cares and wants to win every game. I imagine that something most fans want to see but I think Everton fans need to see that type of trait more than a calculated Koeman type.

I just long for the day when we actually go to one of the big 6 teams and play our way and rip through them. We have gone to sides like that for too long and played on the back foot, hoping to win a point, or under Martinez, trying to play but with absolutely no belief that we can do it.

[markjazzbassist]

Unrealistic - Poch

realistic - Howe.

 

just get Eddie to hire a defensive guru to help at that end.  The Martinez matches were enjoyable because you knew we’d have a go.  Moyes it was squeaky bum time the minute we scored cause he would pack up shop and try and defend the lead, no more of that for me.

 

overall - commitment, passion for the badge, and heart.  If we get that the results will follow.

[Quinn31]

I'd be happy with Benitez believe it or not. I like Dyche and wouldn't be opposed to Howe.

Lots of good young coaches in Germany, good tacticians in Italy.

[Finn balor]

Get a manager and stick with him. Fonseca is my ideal candidate. There are so few top jobs out there that there should be a few big hitters we could tempt with serious dough. Tuchel being one. If not him I’d be happy with Rafa and at a push Silva. Have a clear out and have a squad of 25/26 players. If we have a long term plan we need a spine of a team. Pickford ticks the keeper but we need two centre halves two midfielders and a forward. I’d love to go down the route of the young fearless Leeds team that got to the semi finals of the champs league. Spend our money on a couple of genuine class players in their mid twenties then be buying young hungry players like we have done before but actually play them. 

[Palfy]

I'm firmly in the Rafa camp I truly believe he is the fit for us, the fact that he managed them doesn't mean he can't do it for us, we've had plenty of players cross the park one way or another why not a manager. 

[StevO]

I said when we needed a manager last time that Dyche would be a good fit. His football isn’t just defence first, but that’s the strength he’s tried to play to with what he has available. Watching them this season, they have shown they can play some really good football, they can counter attack, they all give 100% and they can still defend and get down the wings at the same time. For me, this what I want from an Everton team. 

I hope we can find someone in the summer who can bring the fight back, but also with a bit of quality to get us on our feet. 

[nogs]

A good manager fundamentally does two things for me - he works out an approach that wins football matches based on what resources they have available, and that includes being able to adapt tactically game to game and within games. He also has to build belief, unity and commitment into the playing squad, so they want to play for him and for each other. They are qualities we have completely lost at our club, probably since Moyes, but certainly since Martinez came unstuck defensively second season and didn't know how to solve it. 

I want to be entertained yes, but I care much less about style of play, tactics, signings than I do about having leadership at the club that prioritises passion and dedication to the cause. I want a manager who comes in and buys into the club 100%, commits to the project, and then has the strength of character to put his vision into practice. I just want the opposite of the rudderless shite we're suffering now. 

[Romey 1878]

44 minutes ago, StevO said:

I said when we needed a manager last time that Dyche would be a good fit. His football isn’t just defence first, but that’s the strength he’s tried to play to with what he has available. Watching them this season, they have shown they can play some really good football, they can counter attack, they all give 100% and they can still defend and get down the wings at the same time. For me, this what I want from an Everton team. 

I hope we can find someone in the summer who can bring the fight back, but also with a bit of quality to get us on our feet. 

Been thinking this more and more myself. However, having recently signed a new long-term contract I think he’s off the table. I know contracts don’t mean shit but he seems the loyal type, so I don’t think he’ll be wanting to leave. If we were a Man United then it’d obviously be a different story but I don’t see him wanting to jump from what he’s built there just for us. 

[StevO]

31 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

Been thinking this more and more myself. However, having recently signed a new long-term contract I think he’s off the table. I know contracts don’t mean shit but he seems the loyal type, so I don’t think he’ll be wanting to leave. If we were a Man United then it’d obviously be a different story but I don’t see him wanting to jump from what he’s built there just for us. 

I think the same Mark. I was gutted when I heard he signed that contract, because as you say he’s the loyal type. He’s committed himself to Burnley and think he wouldn’t want to let them down. That’s the kind of character I like. If anyone heard the Joey Barton podcast interview with him, it made me like him even more. 

All that said, I think he would have loved to get the chance to manage a club like ours. I think our fans would love the fight he would get from the players. 

[Finn balor]

I don’t want  dysche 

[StevO]

1 minute ago, Finn balor said:

I don’t want  dysche 

Don’t worry, you won’t get him. 

You won’t get Dyche either. 

[Romey 1878]

13 minutes ago, StevO said:

I think the same Mark. I was gutted when I heard he signed that contract, because as you say he’s the loyal type. He’s committed himself to Burnley and think he wouldn’t want to let them down. That’s the kind of character I like. If anyone heard the Joey Barton podcast interview with him, it made me like him even more. 

All that said, I think he would have loved to get the chance to manage a club like ours. I think our fans would love the fight he would get from the players. 

I think if we’d made a move when we sacked Koeman he’d have said yes. But after it being obvious that Moshiri was looking elsewhere he’s threw his lot in completely where he’s valued and wanted. Which is fair enough. 

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

He wouldn’t be my first choice anyway but I think if we went in for him he would come. He can’t realistically take Burnley any further

[rubecula]

2 hours ago, StevO said:

I said when we needed a manager last time that Dyche would be a good fit. His football isn’t just defence first, but that’s the strength he’s tried to play to with what he has available. Watching them this season, they have shown they can play some really good football, they can counter attack, they all give 100% and they can still defend and get down the wings at the same time. For me, this what I want from an Everton team. 

I hope we can find someone in the summer who can bring the fight back, but also with a bit of quality to get us on our feet. 

no chance of getting Dyche  now.  why would he come here when he has European football with what is (sad to say) a much better team.

[StevO]

39 minutes ago, rubecula said:

no chance of getting Dyche  now.  why would he come here when he has European football with what is (sad to say) a much better team.

That’s why I think so much of him. Man for man I think we are a much better squad, but he makes the team the most important part what they do. I wonder what he could do with our players. 

[rubecula]

Might have to wait until the end of next season though and I am not personally prepared to do that.

[jofanon]

I want us to model around that Bowyer/Smith/Viduka Leeds type side or Keane/Beckham/Scholes/Butt ManUre side

Young, aggressive, pacey, snide but with ability

Knowledge of managers isn'tt good enough to suggest a person - the next Fergie!

I thought Koeman would have been like that but I clearly was very wrong! 

[Bailey]

I find the Howe / Dyche shouts interesting because they both focus on the team rather than the individuals and then sign players in that mould but is that enough to ever get you into the next level. Can you get that quality and work ethic at the type of price we want to pay in the position we are in? 

Howe for example always goes back to the guys that got Bournemouth promoted when he hits a rocky patch. They have added some quality (Ake, Begovic, Defoe) but have they really improved? 

Dyche has only ever won 1 game after going behind and that was against us. Do you really want to watch us go a goal up and sit and defend for the remaining minutes? How is he going to do when he has to go and win a game? I don' think his cup record is much good.

[markjazzbassist]

8 minutes ago, Bailey said:

I find the Howe / Dyche shouts interesting because they both focus on the team rather than the individuals and then sign players in that mould but is that enough to ever get you into the next level. Can you get that quality and work ethic at the type of price we want to pay in the position we are in? 

Howe for example always goes back to the guys that got Bournemouth promoted when he hits a rocky patch. They have added some quality (Ake, Begovic, Defoe) but have they really improved? 

Dyche has only ever won 1 game after going behind and that was against us. Do you really want to watch us go a goal up and sit and defend for the remaining minutes? How is he going to do when he has to go and win a game? I don' think his cup record is much good.

not a dyche fan so no comment there.  as to Howe, he has no money to work with.  His biggest buy has been Jordan Ibe from the red shite.  If he was given a proper budget maybe he would be able to buy more technical players.  He got Wilshere on loan and that was good for both of them, but he can't buy those types of players.  That's his only question mark with me is transfer dealings, does he know a proper player when given the money?  Cause Ibe and Defoe have been misses for them.  Ake and Begovic big hits.  Benfik Afobe is doing really well for Wolves on loan and scoring a good amount, maybe he will come good for them.

[EFC-Paul]

Not keen on Howe regardless of age I just don't see him being any better than a mid table manager at best 

Dyche has worked absolute wonders at Burnley got them up steadied the uprise and has turned them into a very good Prem side on a shoestring budget, not as fashionable as many would like but with how well he's done you can't give the man anything other than praise

I like Fonseca I said prior to Koeman going or around the time I'd like him or Silva and still stand by it. Always a risk bringing in a manager from overseas but I just see him as the man who could carry us forward for the next few years 

Get Sam fucked off along with Walsh and Elstone (going I know) and hopefully we can form a team that can propel us in the right direction 

[Bailey]

1 hour ago, markjazzbassist said:

not a dyche fan so no comment there.  as to Howe, he has no money to work with.  His biggest buy has been Jordan Ibe from the red shite.  If he was given a proper budget maybe he would be able to buy more technical players.  He got Wilshere on loan and that was good for both of them, but he can't buy those types of players.  That's his only question mark with me is transfer dealings, does he know a proper player when given the money?  Cause Ibe and Defoe have been misses for them.  Ake and Begovic big hits.  Benfik Afobe is doing really well for Wolves on loan and scoring a good amount, maybe he will come good for them.

But how much have those "quality" players improved them? I don' have any problems with the signings themselves, Ibe was worth the risk in my opinion at the time given who they can realistically attract, but are they any better than when they stayed up? Worst league for a while, top 4 aside, and they are still fighting for survival. At least Dyche has done that. 

[markjazzbassist]

6 minutes ago, Bailey said:

But how much have those "quality" players improved them? I don' have any problems with the signings themselves, Ibe was worth the risk in my opinion at the time given who they can realistically attract, but are they any better than when they stayed up? Worst league for a while, top 4 aside, and they are still fighting for survival. At least Dyche has done that. 

dyche has one good season and everyone is over the moon on him.  let's see how he does next season.  even pardew had a nice campaign getting europa with the toon.

[Gwlad]

OP asked who are we and what do we want?  We're Everton and we want a team of players and manager who know the dna of the club to go forward TOGETHER. Wishful thinking in this day and age of commercialism where the proud history is nothing  against the accountants bottom line. Anyway I've said elsewhere that I would totally go with Rafa as I think he knows what EFC means to fans. Assuming he's moved on the small club idea!!

[Bailey]

10 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

dyche has one good season and everyone is over the moon on him.  let's see how he does next season.  even pardew had a nice campaign getting europa with the toon.

I agree, I think next season will be the true acid test. Every other team won't be as shit. 

[nogs]

11 minutes ago, Bailey said:

I agree, I think next season will be the true acid test. Every other team won't be as shit. 

Premier League has been poor quality for several years now. The year Leicester won it, take nothing away from the achievement, the rest of the league was shit. Either side of that, Chelsea won the league virtually unopposed. The recent record of English clubs in Europe speaks for itself, as does the absolute lottery of who goes down. Outside the top 6, there's little difference in quality between the top half of the Championship, which is why the races for relegation and promotion end up being so tight. 

Too many over paid average players, too many very poor managers who keep getting jobs because they have 'PL experience'. Yes the fast paced nature of the football can be good to watch at times, but it can also be dire, as we know only too well.