Zenit St Petersburg Uefa Cup (home)

[JamesN]

What do you guys reckon for Wednesday night?

 

Should be a comfortable win although saying that these guys have just won the Russian Premier League..

 

I'm taking my bird as well and its her first game so i think shes hoping to see Timmy Cahill (coz she thinks he's "cute") and Mikky Arteta seeing as she's half Spanish!!

 

Not sure what team will be played as Phil Neville on the Everton site has hinted at a bit more of a rotation for this game...

 

So yeah, predictions??

 

3-0 Everrton for me!!

[carlmc25]

What do you guys reckon for Wednesday night?

 

Should be a comfortable win although saying that these guys have just won the Russian Premier League..

 

I'm taking my bird as well and its her first game so i think shes hoping to see Timmy Cahill (coz she thinks he's "cute") and Mikky Arteta seeing as she's half Spanish!!

 

Not sure what team will be played as Phil Neville on the Everton site has hinted at a bit more of a rotation for this game...

 

So yeah, predictions??

 

3-0 Everrton for me!!

we're basically already through so I think Moyes should be rotating. Surely we will see Gravesen, Baines, AJ & another (Anichebe/Vaughan) maybe McFadden etc. I'd give a couple of players a break, maybe even bring in Jags and give Lescott a quick rest, possibly Hibbert rb and move Neville into DM so Carsley can have a breather too. I don't know! but I'd be very surprised and a little disappointed if Moyes didn't take the chance to give Gravesen, Vaughan and Baines a run out.

[Blue4Ever]

we're basically already through so I think Moyes should be rotating. Surely we will see Gravesen, Baines, AJ & another (Anichebe/Vaughan) maybe McFadden etc. I'd give a couple of players a break, maybe even bring in Jags and give Lescott a quick rest, possibly Hibbert rb and move Neville into DM

No thanks...We will lose if he plays in midfield, Id rather put out a solid first team maybe a few players rested to actually win. If we finish second we get a harder team in the knockouts, we might aswell go for it. Id like Tommy center mid with Cahill to see how we play but Id be just as happy cars doing his usual job there.

 

Id rest Osman and Neville

 

----------------------Howard------------------------

 

Jags--------Yobo-------------Lescott------Baines

 

Arteta------Cahill---------Cars/Tommy------Pienaar

 

-------------Vaughan-------Yakubu-----------------

 

A.J on at half time what ever the score...

 

1-0

Edited December 4, 2007 by Blue4Ever

[Romey 1878]

If we do rotate 1-0 to Zenit. If we play a proper first 11 then 2-1 to us.

[Bill]

^^ YEAH I AGREE ^^ lets get the job done first then we can rotate as much as we like. A full squad with Baines coming in for Nuno would be my only Change.. Full squad. 2-0. several left out. 1-1.

[Mac]

A serious buttfucking to be had in this one, I have my cheeky box of red and am expecting at least a 5-0. These are great times to be blue and I for one am loving it.

 

ATB

 

Mac

[carlmc25]

^^ YEAH I AGREE ^^ lets get the job done first then we can rotate as much as we like. A full squad with Baines coming in for Nuno would be my only Change.. Full squad. 2-0. several left out. 1-1.

rotate as much as we like? there'll only be one more game which is against a bunch of jokers anyway! Personally I don't see why we can't rotate, players like Vaughan, AJ, Gravesen and Baines in particular will not weaken our team much, if at all.

 

a 1-1 draw is ok anyway, get us qualified and leave us in pole to top the group.

[StevO]

dont rest anybody, we must take all opposition seriously and get the job done right first time.

[JamesN]

dont rest anybody, we must take all opposition seriously and get the job done right first time.

i agree, look what happened in our game against metalist... We don't want to have to get a result in our last game to qualify. We should really finish the job first and then rest players IF we need to. Nothing is a certainty...

[carlmc25]

i agree, look what happened in our game against metalist... We don't want to have to get a result in our last game to qualify. We should really finish the job first and then rest players IF we need to. Nothing is a certainty...

then I'd have to ask exactly when do we use our 'squad'? The one remaining match we have this season that may not matter (Alkmaar) and never again? as if we go by most opinions on here no game is a formality so we should never rest anyone unless we have already qualified. Well that means we have to put out a full strength team in every league match, FA cup match and League cup match, and once we get through the UEFA group then once again we won't be able to rotate. The whole point of a squad (especially one which contains £5+ players such as Baines, AJ on the bench) is to use it against the lesser opposition in not so important matches. This game is no way more important than the league, we could probably lost both our last two matches (very unlikely) and still get through no problems, which is why we should rotate 4+ players to keep everyone fresh. Zenith are nothing special, if we can't get a result against them at home with a bit of rotation then there's not much hope. If you don't rotate then when players do get injured this season the players coming in for them will be off the pace of the Premiership and won't have played enough matches. The bottom line is, would playing Vaughan, AJ, Gravesen and Baines weaken our team? I'd say not at home against Zenith, if anything it'd give us a more exciting line up against a team who have finished their domestic season and in a bit of a wind down period.

[Bill]

Carl said ...... "Zenith are nothing special"

 

I wouldnt like to make the mistake of dismissing them, Just get the job done 1st and rotate when we are deffo to finish top.

 

Zenit St. Petersburg celebrate title.

 

ST. PETERSBURG, November 11- 2007 - Zenit St. Petersburg claimed their first championship title in post-Soviet Russia on Sunday, sparking wild scenes of celebration in the country's one-time capital.

"We have waited 23 years for this and now we can say 'Zenit are the champions!'" said the city's governor, Valentina Matviyenko, as the victorious side greeted fans at the club's Petrovsky Stadium. Zenit's only previous title was in the Soviet era, in 1984, when the city was still known as Leningrad.

 

They are not to be under estimated.

[carlmc25]

Carl said ...... "Zenith are nothing special"

 

I wouldnt like to make the mistake of dismissing them, Just get the job done 1st and rotate when we are deffo to finish top.

 

Zenit St. Petersburg celebrate title.

 

ST. PETERSBURG, November 11- 2007 - Zenit St. Petersburg claimed their first championship title in post-Soviet Russia on Sunday, sparking wild scenes of celebration in the country's one-time capital.

"We have waited 23 years for this and now we can say 'Zenit are the champions!'" said the city's governor, Valentina Matviyenko, as the victorious side greeted fans at the club's Petrovsky Stadium. Zenit's only previous title was in the Soviet era, in 1984, when the city was still known as Leningrad.

 

They are not to be under estimated.

neither are Fulham and I know which match I see as more important considering we're top of our group in the UEFA (and virtually guaranteed passage into the next round even if we lose) and only 9th in the league.

[Bill]

I'm all for playing the strongest team in every game fook the rotation, other players will get their chance when injuries occur, any manager who rotates his team and does'nt play the best 11 is cheating the paying public.

 

Having said that i would play Johnson and Baines in the team tomorrow relegating Yakubu and Valente to the subs bench.

[carlmc25]

I'm all for playing the strongest team in every game fook the rotation, other players will get their chance when injuries occur, any manager who rotates his team and does'nt play the best 11 is cheating the paying public.

 

Having said that i would play Johnson and Baines in the team tomorrow relegating Yakubu and Valente to the subs bench.

well for me that's madness. I agree with Phil Neville, why have a big squad expensively assembled if you're not going to use it? We're never going to have a better chance this season to rotate for a few games and get some of the fringe players fit (Gravesen in particular). Otherwise all we need is Osman to get injured and then we bring in Gravesen and he is way off the pace when it DOES matter. We need to have a big team mentality, if Liverpool/Arsenal/ Utd/Chelsea were playing a Russian team on home soil when the group was all but sewn up they'd rotate heavily to keep them fresh for the league, which is the most important competition. We have enough strength in depth now to rest a few players and bring in players of equal quality who wouldn't weaken the team but provide some players with a nice rest and also improve their fitness levels and confidence. Plus it gives them a chance to stake a claim for a regular spot, that's the whole point of competition for places. We have something like 9 matches this month and you say 'fook rotation' - madness, our players would be treading water by xmas if we did that.

[JamesN]

then I'd have to ask exactly when do we use our 'squad'? The one remaining match we have this season that may not matter (Alkmaar) and never again? as if we go by most opinions on here no game is a formality so we should never rest anyone unless we have already qualified. Well that means we have to put out a full strength team in every league match, FA cup match and League cup match, and once we get through the UEFA group then once again we won't be able to rotate. The whole point of a squad (especially one which contains £5+ players such as Baines, AJ on the bench) is to use it against the lesser opposition in not so important matches. This game is no way more important than the league, we could probably lost both our last two matches (very unlikely) and still get through no problems, which is why we should rotate 4+ players to keep everyone fresh. Zenith are nothing special, if we can't get a result against them at home with a bit of rotation then there's not much hope. If you don't rotate then when players do get injured this season the players coming in for them will be off the pace of the Premiership and won't have played enough matches. The bottom line is, would playing Vaughan, AJ, Gravesen and Baines weaken our team? I'd say not at home against Zenith, if anything it'd give us a more exciting line up against a team who have finished their domestic season and in a bit of a wind down period.

to be honest, i think we have a really strong bench most of the time... it depends which players you want to rest though, i wouldn't mind who we played upfront as long as its not McFadden, i think everyone of our forwards is good enough for a 1st team start apart from him (maybe Vaughan should be on the bench as he's not match fit)...

 

I think as long as the squad isn't weakened in any way I'd be happy... They just need to make sure quality replaces quality.

[Louis]

Here is the official press pack for the game:

 

[link]

[MikeO]

Kharkiv were fifth in the Ukrainian league and we nearly blew it by taking them lightly. Zenit are Russian Champions, direct entry into the group stage of the Champions League next year so will be no mugs.

 

AZ are "a bunch of jokers?" Don't think so. We don't want to be going to Holland needing a result in my view, my heart's taken enough stress already this campaign.

 

I'd be happy with a few changes that don't obviously weaken the team. Baines, AJ, Faddy and/or possibly Jags in but it's vital not to lose.

 

Here is the official press pack for the game:

 

[link]

 

I'm liking the fact the match officials are all Israeli . Not famous for being best buddies with Russia . (Edit...scrub that, they're Iclandic )

Edited December 5, 2007 by MikeO

[Bill]

Carl said..... "if Liverpool/Arsenal/ Utd/Chelsea were playing a Russian team on home soil when the group was all but sewn up they'd rotate heavily".

 

But we are not RS/UTD/CHELSEA OR ARSENAL and the group is not all but sewn up. We should want to Finish top to avoid a team from Champs league.

 

If you feel we MUST ROTATE then i would suggest Fulham might be an easier game, but dont feel sorry for our players having to play 3 hours football a week, they get very well paid for it and if 3 hours a week is too much for them they should try a job as a coalman or a builders labourer.

I'm sure that carrying their wages to the Bank makes more physical demands on them.

Our best 11 should be selected for every game, as i said injuries and loss of form will make their demands on all the players at some time in the season.

[Blue 250]

surely when the oppotunity to rotate presents itself as Wednesday does it would be a shame to waste it.Don't just look at the next game as a one off, think about Fulham at the weekend!

Couple of our so called best players ie Atreta and Cahill, should be able to be replaced without

a sudden collapse of our form.Give Gravo a run out, try another player in the Cahill role, surely

that alone would give us a view to a replacement if Cahill gets injured(ie can anyone else do the Cahill role).We've got a decent squad now, if we can't rest a couple without falling to pieces then what happens if they get injured?

Better to have a couple of players up and running ready to cover if the worst happens(injuries or loss of form).Were supposed to have a great team spirit, it should stand up to letting a couple of fringe players proving their worth.

Of course tinkering with a winning team could be frowned on, but this must be seen as possibly a risk worth taking.Anichebe will be hoping for possibly more than just a run out.

[carlmc25]

Kharkiv were fifth in the Ukrainian league and we nearly blew it by taking them lightly. Zenit are Russian Champions, direct entry into the group stage of the Champions League next year so will be no mugs.

 

AZ are "a bunch of jokers?" Don't think so. We don't want to be going to Holland needing a result in my view, my heart's taken enough stress already this campaign.

 

I'd be happy with a few changes that don't obviously weaken the team. Baines, AJ, Faddy and/or possibly Jags in but it's vital not to lose.

you're missing my point. My point is the players we bring in are of equal quality (or near enough) to those we take out and that EVERY match for us is not to be underestimated. My point is the only other match for the remainder of this season that we could possibly take lightly is Alkmaar, after that EVERY match is a big match. If you use the arguments on here that Zenith is a big match so we should play first choice 11, then that means every match for the whole of the rest of this season falls into the same category - this is not sustainable. At the end of the day, we are in a great position top of the group, playing at home against a team who will be happy with a draw and we have a match on Saturday that we must win. Tomorrow's match isn't a 'must' win, we need to see the bigger picture and look at tomorrow's match for what it is and accept that whilst the opposition may be ok, they're no Arsenal. I don't say let's bring in a bunch of untried youngsters, but I think everyone will gain if the likes of Gravesen, Baines, AJ etc play. As it happens I think Vaughan is playing for the reserves tonight so I assume that rules him out of starting tomorrow.

[carlmc25]

surely when the oppotunity to rotate presents itself as Wednesday does it would be a shame to waste it.Don't just look at the next game as a one off, think about Fulham at the weekend!

Couple of our so called best players ie Atreta and Cahill, should be able to be replaced without

a sudden collapse of our form.Give Gravo a run out, try another player in the Cahill role, surely

that alone would give us a view to a replacement if Cahill gets injured(ie can anyone else do the Cahill role).We've got a decent squad now, if we can't rest a couple without falling to pieces then what happens if they get injured?

Better to have a couple of players up and running ready to cover if the worst happens(injuries or loss of form).Were supposed to have a great team spirit, it should stand up to letting a couple of fringe players proving their worth.

Of course tinkering with a winning team could be frowned on, but this must be seen as possibly a risk worth taking.Anichebe will be hoping for possibly more than just a run out.

exactly.

[StevO]

ok then, it seems a few things have happened since this thread got rolling.

 

yobo may be ruled out by injury, jagielka may get a chance.

howard may be ruled out by injury, wessells may get a chance.

vaughan is playing for the reserves tonight, i guess he wont be in the squad tomorrow.

valente has played very well in his last three run outs, it might be a little unfiar to drop him, baines is more than capable of coming in against fulham on saturday.

bringing aj in for the yak can be pretty like for like, so now problem there.

that brings me to gravesen, i wouldnt want to see any of our midfield dropped for this game. they are playing very well at the moment, they dont need to be broken up. they deserve to play in this game.

[Bill]

ok then, it seems a few things have happened since this thread got rolling.

 

yobo may be ruled out by injury, jagielka may get a chance.

howard may be ruled out by injury, wessells may get a chance.

vaughan is playing for the reserves tonight, i guess he wont be in the squad tomorrow.

valente has played very well in his last three run outs, it might be a little unfiar to drop him, baines is more than capable of coming in against fulham on saturday.

bringing aj in for the yak can be pretty like for like, so now problem there.

that brings me to gravesen, i wouldnt want to see any of our midfield dropped for this game. they are playing very well at the moment, they dont need to be broken up. they deserve to play in this game.

 

 

Well Done Steve you got that spot on mate .......

 

EXPECTED TEAM FOR TONIGHT.....4-4-2

 

..................... Wessels ..................

 

Neville .... Jagielka .... Lescott .... Baines

 

Arteta .... Carsley .... Osman .... Pieenar

 

.............. Johnson .. Anichebe...........

 

Howard and Yobo minor injuries, Yakubu and Cahill rested.

[carlmc25]

Well Done Steve you got that spot on mate .......

 

EXPECTED TEAM FOR TONIGHT.....4-4-2

 

..................... Wessels ..................

 

Neville .... Jagielka .... Lescott .... Baines

 

Arteta .... Carsley .... Osman .... Pieenar

 

.............. Johnson .. Anichebe...........

 

Howard and Yobo minor injuries, Yakubu and Cahill rested.

actually, he hasn't got anything spot on and that's just an expected team - Cahill and Valente are supposedly out and Anichebe brought in - none of which he predicted, in fact Stevo said all the midfield should keep their place. In fact the only thing he got right, if the expected line up is correct, was the injuries and AJ being brought in. Basically, if the line-up is correct, Moyes has rotated like I suggested, I personally think Lescott may have been rested had Yobo not been injured. It still wouldn't surprise me to see Hibbert feature.

Edited December 5, 2007 by carlmc25

[Bill]

actually, he hasn't got anything spot on and that's just an expected team - Cahill and Valente are supposedly out and Anichebe brought in - none of which he predicted, in fact Stevo said all the midfield should keep their place. In fact the only thing he got right, if the expected line up is correct, was the injuries and AJ being brought in. Basically, if the line-up is correct, Moyes has rotated like I suggested, I personally think Lescott may have been rested had Yobo not been injured. It still wouldn't surprise me to see Hibbert feature.

 

 

Oh ffs man give it a rest, just listen to yourself.

[carlmc25]

Oh ffs man give it a rest, just listen to yourself.

why? because what you said was totally inaccurate and I pointed it out. If you weren't so eager to slap your buddies back then you may have actually read what he wrote and realised it wasn't 'spot on.'

 

I mean, you even highlighted sections to try and make him look good - like wouldn't drop any of our midfield, and Baines (which he said should play against Fulham, NOT Zenith) which were both incorrect if the expected line-up is correct.

 

I don't see what the big deal is, you cocked up - get over it.

Edited December 5, 2007 by carlmc25

[GoldfishMemory]

The quoted paragraph did sound like a playground rant lad!

[carlmc25]

The quoted paragraph did sound like a playground rant lad!

well it wasn't meant to! it just annoys me that there is obviously a clique on this board, a core group of buddies who stick up for each other, even when what they've said is quite obviously incorrect. It's meant to be about opinions, about football, not about who's friends with each other. I have absolutely no problem with what Stevo wrote, he never said anything was definite just gave his thoughts, the problem I have is that Licker then jumps on the chance to pat his friend on the back and congratulate him on his insight when in reality Stevo's thoughts (if the predicted team is correct) weren't actually correct, or even that close. I welcome other people's opinions and no one is right all the time, but I have little respect for people who can't admit when they're wrong.

 

As I say, it just gets on my nerves - you try and make valid points in a topic and then everytime you get the same group of friends who come on and say exactly the same thing and gang up, then when they're wrong you don't hear a peep - when you challenge their views with reasoned argument they have no response. I just find it frustrating and I think some other people are then scared to post their views as they don't want to be ganged up on.

[Bill]

"even when what they've said is quite obviously incorrect" I

 

 

yobo may be ruled out by injury, jagielka may get a chance.

howard may be ruled out by injury, wessells may get a chance.

vaughan is playing for the reserves tonight, i guess he wont be in the squad tomorrow.

valente has played very well in his last three run outs, it might be a little unfiar to drop him, baines is more than capable of coming in against fulham on saturday.

bringing aj in for the yak can be pretty like for like, so now problem there.

that brings me to gravesen, i wouldnt want to see any of our midfield dropped for this game. they are playing very well at the moment, they dont need to be broken up. they deserve to play in this game.

 

"the problem I have is that Licker then jumps on the chance to pat his friend on the back and congratulate him on his insight when in reality Stevo's thoughts (if the predicted team is correct) weren't actually correct, or even that close".

 

I think what Steve said was FAR FROM INCORRECT. Jagielka, Wessells, Baines, and johnson in, only one he didnt mention was Cahill rested because of the change to 4-4-2 OK not 100% spot on but near enough to warrant what i said.

 

IF YOU HAD COME UP WITH THAT POST I WOULD HAVE CONGRATULATED YOU AND GIVEN YOU A PAT ON THE BACK.

"but I have little respect for people who can't admit when they're wrong".

 

If you are talking about me tell me where i am wrong, in my posts i have intimated that the strongest elevn should be played for every game not once did i say that it would be and in fact my last post was this one .........

 

"I'm all for playing the strongest team in every game fook the rotation, other players will get their chance when injuries occur, any manager who rotates his team and does'nt play the best 11 is cheating the paying public.

 

Having said that i would play Johnson and Baines in the team tomorrow relegating Yakubu and Valente to the subs bench."

 

So in fact instead me being wrong i think i'm fookin spot on, so you give me a bit of respect and stop fookin moaning like a spoilt brat.

[carlmc25]

"even when what they've said is quite obviously incorrect" I

yobo may be ruled out by injury, jagielka may get a chance.

howard may be ruled out by injury, wessells may get a chance.

vaughan is playing for the reserves tonight, i guess he wont be in the squad tomorrow.

valente has played very well in his last three run outs, it might be a little unfiar to drop him, baines is more than capable of coming in against fulham on saturday.

bringing aj in for the yak can be pretty like for like, so now problem there.

that brings me to gravesen, i wouldnt want to see any of our midfield dropped for this game. they are playing very well at the moment, they dont need to be broken up. they deserve to play in this game.

 

"the problem I have is that Licker then jumps on the chance to pat his friend on the back and congratulate him on his insight when in reality Stevo's thoughts (if the predicted team is correct) weren't actually correct, or even that close".

 

I think what Steve said was FAR FROM INCORRECT. Jagielka, Wessells, Baines, and johnson in, only one he didnt mention was Cahill rested because of the change to 4-4-2 OK not 100% spot on but near enough to warrant what i said.

 

IF YOU HAD COME UP WITH THAT POST I WOULD HAVE CONGRATULATED YOU AND GIVEN YOU A PAT ON THE BACK.

"but I have little respect for people who can't admit when they're wrong".

 

If you are talking about me tell me where i am wrong, in my posts i have intimated that the strongest elevn should be played for every game not once did i say that it would be and in fact my last post was this one .........

 

"I'm all for playing the strongest team in every game fook the rotation, other players will get their chance when injuries occur, any manager who rotates his team and does'nt play the best 11 is cheating the paying public.

 

Having said that i would play Johnson and Baines in the team tomorrow relegating Yakubu and Valente to the subs bench."

 

So in fact instead me being wrong i think i'm fookin spot on, so you give me a bit of respect and stop fookin moaning like a spoilt brat.

Can't you read? Stevo didn't say Baines would play, he said he should play against Fulham, but NOT against Zenith. He never said Anichebe would play either. Basically he heard on the radio, or read on the OS that Yobo/Howard were struggling and that Vaughan was playing for the reserves - which I had already mentioned, that's not insight it's common knowledge, he didn't need to be congratulated on reporting news. I never said you were wrong on this, but I don't think you can hardly call Wessels, Jags, Anichebe, AJ (no Cahill) our strongest team, it's funny how Howard and Yobo are out tonight when both have been playing through injuries for weeks. As it happens you have been wrong in the past, our big bust up over Vaughan for instance, but still you didn't admit it when the dust settled, like certain other buddies have yours have never admitted they were wrong about 451, they just kept silent, no doubt until we lose a couple of matches and then they'll come out saying how rubbish 451 is and no doubt how rubbish the superb Lee Carsley is. At the end of the day, Moyes has rotated - if the line-up is correct, like I argued he should all along. If he doesn't rotate then I think it's a mistake.

 

Now I repeat, Stevo said it would be unfair to drop Valente so Baines should be brought in against Fulham (quite why when Fulham is the more important match I don't know).

Edited December 5, 2007 by carlmc25