rubecula Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 if I can just paraphrase Nigel Farage ( I can not stand that man myself) "Mr Juncker, who are you? Nobody knows who you are or what you have done." This sums up the EU perfectly for me. Put in grey men in grey suits to positions of power, but make sure they toe the line. If we fuck up on voting an idiot into power it is our own fault. and can be corrected later, but what can we do about the top people in Europe? We can not do anything about Trump either but we are not under his thumb in the same way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 2 minutes ago, rubecula said: if I can just paraphrase Nigel Farage ( I can not stand that man myself) "Mr Juncker, who are you? Nobody knows who you are or what you have done." This sums up the EU perfectly for me. Put in grey men in grey suits to positions of power, but make sure they toe the line. If we fuck up on voting an idiot into power it is our own fault. and can be corrected later, but what can we do about the top people in Europe? We can not do anything about Trump either but we are not under his thumb in the same way. I explained that bit mate - you get your government (vote is cast by the Prime Minister) to educate you on who is a possible candidate and they cast the vote on your behalf. It's democracy on a bigger level, but no one was informed and it's still the case Just curious, but do you or anyone else know all the members of the British parliament? It's the same principle, with the same reason behind with the EU, just on a larger scale - make it complicated and don't educate the population on politics, so people won't understand and it in turn it's is easier to twist truths and point fingers to win elections. Off to bed now, hopefully Holystove can correct me. But after nearly 2 years of investigating this topic, I'm pretty sure I'm correct in what I've said (though I know I'm over-simplifying it, because I'm knackered) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 2 minutes ago, Matt said: I explained that bit mate - you get your government (vote is cast by the Prime Minister) to educate you on who is a possible candidate and they cast the vote on your behalf. It's democracy on a bigger level, but no one was informed and it's still the case Just curious, but do you or anyone else know all the members of the British parliament? It's the same principle, with the same reason behind with the EU, just on a larger scale - make it complicated and don't educate the population on politics, so people won't understand and it in turn it's is easier to twist truths and point fingers to win elections. Off to bed now, hopefully Holystove can correct me. But after nearly 2 years of investigating this topic, I'm pretty sure I'm correct in what I've said (though I know I'm over-simplifying it, because I'm knackered) not arguing Matt, just voicing how I myself feel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post holystove Posted September 5, 2017 Popular Post Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 9 hours ago, Matt said: edit: Maybe @holystove can clarify that bit again. I've grown so frustrated with politics and even the pills I've got at the moment don't work against it and I've forgotten Someone made a comparison between UK and EU on democratic accountability: (as far as I can tell it's accurate) In the UK, the system on the left is perceived to be democratic, the one on the right not so much. On who pays the EU budget: there are currently 11 member states that are net contributors, the other 17 being eastern and southern Europe and Ireland. Per capita the UK is one of the lowest net contributors, it is however a big country so overall it is the second biggest contributor. Sweden has only been a member for about 20 years and has been a net contributor from the start. It's a shame that people have just become more entrenched as Louis said. I was hoping the process of leaving would help people understand the EU better. Barnier said a couple of days ago that brexit will teach us (as in all Europeans) a lesson on what the customs union is, what the single market is, etc.. Sadly what he meant was translated into UK media as "EU will teach Britain a lesson" (even by the BBC). Matt, MikeO, nyblue23 and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 thank you Holystove Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 13 hours ago, rubecula said: if I can just paraphrase Nigel Farage ( I can not stand that man myself) "Mr Juncker, who are you? Nobody knows who you are or what you have done." This sums up the EU perfectly for me. Put in grey men in grey suits to positions of power, but make sure they toe the line. If we fuck up on voting an idiot into power it is our own fault. and can be corrected later, but what can we do about the top people in Europe? We can not do anything about Trump either but we are not under his thumb in the same way. Mr Juncker, who are you? Juncker is the ex Prime Minister of Luxembourg who was a prime mover in setting it up as a tax haven. The countries who make up the EU (amongst others) lost multi-billions in tax revenues as a result. rubecula 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 1 hour ago, johnh said: Mr Juncker, who are you? Juncker is the ex Prime Minister of Luxembourg who was a prime mover in setting it up as a tax haven. The countries who make up the EU (amongst others) lost multi-billions in tax revenues as a result. thats the fella johnh he fucked everyone over but still in charge anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 26 minutes ago, rubecula said: thats the fella johnh he fucked everyone over but still in charge anyway Because our leaders voted him in rubecula 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 16 minutes ago, Matt said: Because our leaders voted him in Did they? I thought Cameron voted against him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 2 minutes ago, johnh said: Did they? I thought Cameron voted against him. But it was a democratic vote and he was in the minority, wish the moaners would give it a rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 1 minute ago, MikeO said: But it was a democratic vote and he was in the minority, wish the moaners would give it a rest. Maybe I was wrong but I interpreted Matt's post as meaning UK 'leaders'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 3 minutes ago, johnh said: Maybe I was wrong but I interpreted Matt's post as meaning UK 'leaders'. I think you did. We only had one leader available to vote, the fact that Matt said leaders plural suggests (to me) that he meant the collective leaders of the member states. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 34 minutes ago, Matt said: Because our leaders voted him in true enough I suppose but how in hell do we get rid of him, barring a sniper rifle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 9 minutes ago, rubecula said: true enough I suppose but how in hell do we get rid of him, barring a sniper rifle? Same way he got in, vote him out at the end of his five year term. It's called democracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 Just now, MikeO said: Same way he got in, vote him out at the end of his term. It's called democracy. sounds great, where are the ballot papers I have never seen one with his name on it what party is he in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 Just now, rubecula said: sounds great, where are the ballot papers I have never seen one with his name on it what party is he in? Do you expect to have a vote on the next Chancellor or Home Secretary? We have a general election (as do all EU member states) to put people in power to make these decisions for us. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 Just now, MikeO said: Do you expect to have a vote on the next Chancellor or Home Secretary? We have a general election (as do all EU member states) to put people in power to make these decisions for us. no it was a facetious comment sorry mate but we vote a party in (or not depending on who else votes for them) really meant the bit about what party he is in though as I really have no idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 5 minutes ago, rubecula said: no it was a facetious comment sorry mate but we vote a party in (or not depending on who else votes for them) really meant the bit about what party he is in though as I really have no idea. No apology needed! I don't know what his status party wise is now due to his position, but when active in Luxembourg he was in the Christian Social People's Party, which is apparently center/right politically. rubecula 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 sort of tory moderate then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 6 minutes ago, rubecula said: sort of tory moderate then? I guess, @holystove would probably know better than anyone. rubecula 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 to be honest Mike he is probably a very nice man, but he rubs me the wrong way every time I see him on the tv. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 54 minutes ago, MikeO said: I think you did. We only had one leader available to vote, the fact that Matt said leaders plural suggests (to me) that he meant the collective leaders of the member states. Yup, leaders as in those eligible to vote. Democracy sucks when it doesn't go the way you want Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 7 hours ago, holystove said: Someone made a comparison between UK and EU on democratic accountability: (as far as I can tell it's accurate) In the UK, the system on the left is perceived to be democratic, the one on the right not so much. On who pays the EU budget: there are currently 11 member states that are net contributors, the other 17 being eastern and southern Europe and Ireland. Per capita the UK is one of the lowest net contributors, it is however a big country so overall it is the second biggest contributor. Sweden has only been a member for about 20 years and has been a net contributor from the start. It's a shame that people have just become more entrenched as Louis said. I was hoping the process of leaving would help people understand the EU better. Barnier said a couple of days ago that brexit will teach us (as in all Europeans) a lesson on what the customs union is, what the single market is, etc.. Sadly what he meant was translated into UK media as "EU will teach Britain a lesson" (even by the BBC). So Barnier mis-spoke. He must have been taking lessons from Diane Abbott. rubecula 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 1 minute ago, johnh said: So Barnier mis-spoke. He must have been taking lessons from Diane Abbott. roflmao she is a trout though isn't she? every time she opens that gob of hers folks run for the hills lol lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 1 hour ago, Matt said: Yup, leaders as in those eligible to vote. Democracy sucks when it doesn't go the way you want You, and the majority of retainers, have displayed that perfectly ;). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 8 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said: You, and the majority of retainers, have displayed that perfectly ;). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 20 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said: You, and the majority of retainers, have displayed that perfectly ;). Might not have been so bitter about it all had there been any effort to educate the public rather than lie to their faces. Fact is, everyone got screwed. Oh, and a vote would've been nice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 33 minutes ago, Matt said: Might not have been so bitter about it all had there been any effort to educate the public rather than lie to their faces. Fact is, everyone got screwed. Oh, and a vote would've been nice vote? you must be mad if you think you live in a democracy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 53 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said: You, and the majority of retainers, have displayed that perfectly ;). What has orthodontic treatment have to do with it? Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 7 minutes ago, MikeO said: What has orthodontic treatment have to do with it? Autocorrect has its own democracy. The piece of shit. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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