bluemist Posted August 15, 2011 Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 And yet you wanted to use yobo as a winger? I agree with alot of this, but ani is not going to make it at Everton. He just isnt good enough. The yak is a different Nope not me who suggested that, whoever did must have been smoking strong cannabis though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus jones Posted August 15, 2011 Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 Everton's pattern of play can be sometimes predictable yes, but when attacking at speed we cut through most teams so it just leaves the final 3rd right in front of goal. I think this is where we we lack big time. If the ball ain't passed over to Baines to whip in then we are clueless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted August 15, 2011 Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 but when attacking at speed we cut through most teams We attack at speed? I must have missed that between the snail paced sideways and backwards passing in order to move forwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted August 15, 2011 Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 Nope not me who suggested that, whoever did must have been smoking strong cannabis though Sorry, it was avinalaff that suggested using yobo as a winger, quoted the wrong reply Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus jones Posted August 15, 2011 Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 We attack at speed? I must have missed that between the snail paced sideways and backwards passing in order to move forwards. If we don't do speed how is Baines running beyond his fullback, Coleman running diagonally past his opposition fullback, Beckford stretching the central defenders etc etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted August 15, 2011 Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 If we don't do speed how is Baines running beyond his fullback, Coleman running diagonally past his opposition fullback, Beckford stretching the central defenders etc etc? A lot of the running goes unnoticed because the midfield dither and don't pass the ball until it's to late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted August 15, 2011 Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 Nope not me who suggested that, whoever did must have been smoking strong cannabis though 11 posts in 2 1/2 years ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemist Posted August 15, 2011 Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 11 posts in 2 1/2 years ? yep been on everyday in 2 1/2 years too, used to post on kipper but cos im an" out of towner" my opinions did'nt go down to well!! Some morons on that site tbh Ive decided to start posting again, seems like a friendly bunch here... and enjoy reading posts here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted August 15, 2011 Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 yep been on everyday in 2 1/2 years too, used to post on kipper but cos im an" out of towner" my opinions did'nt go down to well!! Some morons on that site tbh Ive decided to start posting again, seems like a friendly bunch here... and enjoy reading posts here I think there are morons on every site mate. Some sites put up with it, being the main difference. Funnily enough, I've never posted on Kipper. The admins have never bothered to activate my account, despite several attempts. The problem with forums is that there are opinions that often differ with mine. Something obviously wrong with the general design of forums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 If we don't do speed how is Baines running beyond his fullback, Coleman running diagonally past his opposition fullback, Beckford stretching the central defenders etc etc? If we do speed how is it that one of our major problems is that we play too slowly because we go sideways, backwards, sideways, sideways, backwards, forwards? Baines and Coleman may go forward with speed but the rest of side are snails, so when they do there's rarely anything in the box so they have to pass backwards anyway. You mention Beckford stretching central defenders; well, he's not on the pitch often enough for that to make a difference, and when he is he's up there on his own isolated. Saha is our main man and he's as much to blame for lack of speed of play because he drops so deep. Hibbert gets further forward than he does at times! Play Beckford and Saha together and that would be the perfect combo of strikers, IMO. Completely off topic but there you go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smeghead1 Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 We do have a problem attacking with speed, it was all to obvious when we got Donovan on loan. Never has one player made such a difference to the way a team plays. Then Donovan leaves and were left playing a cm in Ossie out there and as proved last season Ossie is no winger but a very good cm when played there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 We do have a problem attacking with speed, it was all to obvious when we got Donovan on loan. Never has one player made such a difference to the way a team plays. Then Donovan leaves and were left playing a cm in Ossie out there and as proved last season Ossie is no winger but a very good cm when played there. Thought Coleman took over from Donovan and Ossie was a class act in the centre of the field second half last season ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 Thought Coleman took over from Donovan and Ossie was a class act in the centre of the field second half last season ..... Coleman just puts his head down and runs. While he is out, he should go buy some Ryan Giggs videos and watch them constantly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 (edited) Coleman just puts his head down and runs. While he is out, he should go buy some Ryan Giggs videos and watch them constantly. We obviously see a different person in that #23 shirt.... And the point was about speed, not silky skills! Edited August 16, 2011 by Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 We obviously see a different person in that #23 shirt.... And the point was about speed, not silky skills! I wasn't contesting your point, but more trying to be honest about Coleman. He is dispossessed far too often. He runs out of ideas at the end of most runs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 I wasn't contesting your point, but more trying to be honest about Coleman. He is dispossessed far too often. He runs out of ideas at the end of most runs. thats a fair point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 when was the last time we scored on the counter attack? if anyone remembers villa at home last season (might have been the season before, losing track. young and agbonlahor), the goals they scored showed how dangerous counter attacking with pace can be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 Thought Coleman took over from Donovan and Ossie was a class act in the centre of the field second half last season ..... yeah he said ossie was stuck out wide when donovan left cos coleman was at blackpool when donovan left..and ossie proved he isn't a winger that season but proved he is a class cm last season..that's why i read anyways Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 when was the last time we scored on the counter attack? if anyone remembers villa at home last season (might have been the season before, losing track. young and agbonlahor), the goals they scored showed how dangerous counter attacking with pace can be. Watching us counter-attack genuinely embarrasses me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 (edited) when was the last time we scored on the counter attack? if anyone remembers villa at home last season (might have been the season before, losing track. young and agbonlahor), the goals they scored showed how dangerous counter attacking with pace can be. Chelsea, last game of the season ? Edited August 16, 2011 by Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 (edited) Chelsea, last game of the season ? hhhmmmm, yes it was a counter attack, but I think your response justifies the concern, as "who was with him?" - quite frankly he was the only player breaking, to counter attack you need to be able to advance quicker than the opponents retreat, you will never be an effective counter attacking team when only one player can outpace the opponents, this is text book and there were 3 players giving the options http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxm1d8bMev8 Edited August 16, 2011 by Hafnia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 hhhmmmm, yes it was a counter attack, but I think your response justifies the concern, as "who was with him?" - quite frankly he was the only player breaking, to counter attack you need to be able to advance quicker than the opponents retreat, you will never be an effective counter attacking team when only one player can outpace the opponents, this is text book and there were 3 players giving the options http://www.youtube.c...h?v=jxm1d8bMev8 in the last few mins in the game, im not surprised that there werent many people. That aside, i cant argue that we dont counter attack enough, though I think Baines and Coleman both have the pace to do the job, just thought id point out that we do it sometimes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 cant expect your defenders to be pushing your counter attack. you need pace upfront and in midfield to do it. if your defender is counter attacking he is, in theory, running past the midfield to get involved. that united goal is completely text book, three very quick players, running apart from each other, splitting the defenders. gave the defenders no chance, it just put the pressure on the guy taking the shot, all the other work is made easy buy their pace and running off the ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 cant expect your defenders to be pushing your counter attack. you need pace upfront and in midfield to do it. if your defender is counter attacking he is, in theory, running past the midfield to get involved. that united goal is completely text book, three very quick players, running apart from each other, splitting the defenders. gave the defenders no chance, it just put the pressure on the guy taking the shot, all the other work is made easy buy their pace and running off the ball. i see where youre coming from but positions are irrelevent here in my opinion. The idea of a counterattack is get up the other end asap right? I dont care if the LB/RB have to run past the rest of the team, the quickest players should be leading and thats Coleman, Baines and Becks (if he is playing). Between them they can cause the oppositions defence the trouble you described. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 (edited) the positions can not be irrelevant in a counter attack, your players position in the formation should also dictate their position on the pitch when a counter happens. to look back at the counter attack on the vid above, its from a corner. our full backs man the posts from a corner, if they were to get on the counter they have the furthest to travel. your forwards, wingers are normally slightly further out, unless you have a mountain of a forward back defending, so they are closer to the break. look at the best counters and you will see not many defenders, mostly forwards and wingers. from your theory of the quickest players leading the counter, what if yobo plays, do you want him to come bombing from a centre back positon to run past his whole team? if it was possible with the players we have then it would happen more, but it doesnt. hence why we were more effective when donovan came over here, arsenal away in his debut, him and pienaar pushed the counter from the wings. Edited August 17, 2011 by StevO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 (edited) the positions can not be irrelevant in a counter attack, your players position in the formation should also dictate their position on the pitch when a counter happens.to look back at the counter attack on the vid above, its from a corner. our full backs man the posts from a corner, if they were to get on the counter they have the furthest to travel. your forwards, wingers are normally slightly further out, unless you have a mountain of a forward back defending, so they are closer to the break. look at the best counters and you will see not many defenders, mostly forwards and wingers. from your theory of the quickest players leading the counter, what if yobo plays, do you want him to come bombing from a centre back positon to run past his whole team? if it was possible with the players we have then it would happen more, but it doesnt. hence why we were more effective when donovan came over here, arsenal away in his debut, him and pienaar pushed the counter from the wings. Arsenal used to be very effective on the counter and attacking in general due to the freedom of the centre halfs to get more involved going forward. We have Distin do it now and again, but Moyes seems to tear his hair out when our centre halfs go past the centre circle. Playing counter football is risky and unless you're Arsenal not very pretty apart from the goals eg. Villa under MON. Agree we should try it more just to mix things up, but not change how the team plays to accommodate it. It's one dimensional and awful to watch, even worse than long ball football. With a midfield of Arteta, Fellaini and Cahill most teams will be wary of this dominant midfield and defend closer to goal so the only chance for a counter attack would be after conceding a corner. Edited August 17, 2011 by pete0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 I agree we should not change how we play to accomodate it, but it would be nice if we had the capability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 I agree we should not change how we play to accomodate it, but it would be nice if we had the capability. You mean have a plan b? Fuck me Steve, that's a little beyond our comprehension as Everton fans! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonButtle Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 You mean have a plan b? Fuck me Steve, that's a little beyond our comprehension as Everton fans! anything beyond 4-5-1 and most fans will wonder if they are watching the same team lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Regulator Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 If we're talking about counter attacking football, same three players, two brilliant goals. We'll never have this kind of counter-attacking quality without spending millions... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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