Tim Cahill? World Class?

[evertonblue]

Its time to be honest here. If you hate Cahill, just because your favourite player is Baines or Jagielka or Seamus then just be honest.

 

But its time to compare Cahill to the likes of Gerrard and Lampard. And define him as world class?

 

I know a lot of you here were calling for him to be benched at the end of last season. But here are the facts:

 

1. He is a target man. Even from the midfield. Possibly the greatest header of the ball in the game today. How can anyone say he isn't with 13 of his 16 last goals coming from headers? Not to mention he has outplayed Vidic everytime the teams have met. Including the world cup.

 

2. Cahill scores World Cup Goals. Something Gerrard doesn't do and hasn't done.

 

3. He holds possession well and is now a complete player.

 

To my knowledge we have 3 world class players. 1. Cahill. 2. Arteta, although hes soft in defence. And 3. Baines. Who is going to be very very good soon.

 

To conclude, major newspapers and soccer television broadcasts know the threat of Cahill. Mention him as being monumental to Cahill and mention him being world class. It seems his harshest critics are here. As seen by Yakubu and Jagielka getting MOTM votes over the weekend. Cahill had his best game in the Everton jersey ever, and people voted for Yakubu 10 times.

 

Anyhow do you agree with widespread global media reports that Cahill is world class?

 

And are Arteta and Baines? I think all 3 are.

[Bill]

Are we going to get more and more threads about Cahill every time he scores or has a decent game. ?

 

Yeah hes a good player ET but i wish you would stop jizzing in your pants over him.

[Kohen]

I jizz in my pants over Cahill

[Matt]

simply - No.

 

He is an excellent player but not world class. Same with Arteta (who has been under performing in my eyes, not sure what youre on about defending thats not his role. Oh and his freekicks/corners are shite.) and Baines (though he has the potential to be).

[MikeO]

World class yesterday, sometimes he isn't. If he isn't we say so. Get over it (though I know you never will).

[Hafnia]

What is world class? - seriously you can have a full debate on that one.

 

Cahill is a decent premier league player. His attributes are excellent heading ability, determination and focus. In terms of technical ability very very average. Pleased we have him - been a great buy.

 

Is he in the same bracket as lampard, gerrard, scholes, diaby etc - No.

[Romey 1878]

Gerrard scored against the USA, I believe that was in the World Cup.

 

I can't really be arsed with the rest of your post.

[Louis]

What is world class? - seriously you can have a full debate on that one.

 

In my view World Class is the team the Nerdlucks would have chosen if the Looney tunes had challenged them to a game of 'soccer' instead of basketball in the film Space Jam.

[Lowensda]

In my view World Class is the team the Nerdlucks would have chosen if the Looney tunes had challenged them to a game of 'soccer' instead of basketball in the film Space Jam.

Brilliant!!

 

However i have to be honest, i cant take anything you say seriously ET's because quite frankly, you dont even know who places for Everton currently, as pointed out in the MOTM thread. But seriously, as others said stop jizzing everytime he scores; you should start your own forum...TimmyTalk!

[marcopaulo]

[johnnywalkerblue]

Tim's was the first shirt I bought and wore to a pub to watch a game... That being said I don't know that we can make comparisons to lampard, messi, etc because he's not that type of player... The man is a gear in a machine. What makes Everton the team it is is the team and the strategy and culture, not a 250,000 pound a week superstar

[Louis]

Better than Bruce Willis in Armagedon:

 

[BrotherEstapol]

I think he has a man crush on Brett Lee judging by that ad...was tempting to make my signature just a loop of that look he gives him at the end! Classic!

[tonyh]

The phrase 'world-class' doesn't really make sense to me. You can talk about someone being 'premier-league class', meaning they were good enough to play regularly for a team that doesn't get relegated from the premier league. World class? Would that mean someone who is good enough to play in the world cup? That doesn't mean much, as weaker teams who qualify can have some pretty poor players in their teams.

 

The more interesting question would be whether Cahill is good enough to get in a team that had a really good chance of winning a) the Premier League, the European Cup or c) the World Cup. I'd probably say no to all three based on form throughout a season.

[Blue 250]

Is Cahill world class!

 

I have an idea, that if a younger, totally fit Cahill, played just behind the right striker and with the right kind of service behind him (in midfield)......then, then he would be a joy to behold.That role was made for him and at times he has destroyed teams and looked a world class player, but not as often as we would like, that could well be Evertons fault ie wrong striker and midfield formation.....plus drop Timmy back into a more general midfield position and he's far from world class.

 

Cahills a really good player, and if he finishes his career off here in style will be pushing hero status.It was a good day for Everton when he came to Goodison.

Edited October 20, 2010 by Blue 250

[Romey 1878]

http://www.evertonfc.com/news/archive/2010/10/19/tim-makes-history

 

 

Some achievement.

[buddy]

The more interesting question would be whether Cahill is good enough to get in a team that had a really good chance of winning a) the Premier League, the European Cup or c) the World Cup. I'd probably say no to all three based on form throughout a season.

 

Considering both Man Utd and Chelsea have made offers for him in the past I would suggest the answer would be yes.

 

It really does baffle me the lack of respect Cahill gets on this forum. He is our leading goal scorer this year, consistently puts his body on the line for the club, and plays injured in many cases (whereas some of our other players might take the opportunity to have a couple of weeks rest). Flew back from Oz to take part in both training and Sunday's match (anyone who's done the 24 hour flight from Oz to UK would know how draining it is on the body), scores a goal and never stopped running yet still we find fault in him? Please.

 

Look back at the past 5 years at Everton. There is only one player who is possibly ahead of Cahill in terms of performance in this time and that is Arteta. He deserves alot more respect than he gets on this forum.

 

But I suppose the English will always find something to whinge about...

[Bill]

I'd lay odds on buddy being an Aussie.

[MikeO]

He deserves alot more respect than he gets on this forum.

 

But I suppose the English will always find something to whinge about...

He gets massive, massive respect, admiration and (even) affection on here as well as from Evertonians everywhere.

 

He's been a huge success and will go down as a legend when he retires, probably not at the A list level of Ball, Labone, Dean, Southall etc but certainly a B+.

 

We are just maybe a bit more objective and realistic than some of our Australian friends (which ain't whinging).

[Churinga2]

this is a nondiscussion.

 

It all depends on what you mean with world class

 

In a way all the premier league players are world class as it is (arguably) the best league in the world.

[buddy]

He gets massive, massive respect, admiration and (even) affection on here as well as from Evertonians everywhere.

He's been a huge success and will go down as a legend when he retires, probably not at the A list level of Ball, Labone, Dean, Southall etc but certainly a B+.

 

We are just maybe a bit more objective and realistic than some of our Australian friends (which ain't whinging).

 

At times and from some, yes. Too often though after a quiet game from Cahill I read posts on this forum about how he shouldn't be a starter anymore, or that he is too old and past it. It seems to me that he is not offered the right to the odd quiet game like other players are.

 

Don't get me wrong though - I'm not suggesting he is at the level of Ball, Labone, Dean, Southall etc. But in terms of a modern Everton only Arteta is on the same level as him. Other players have shown glimpses but Cahill and Arteta are the only two that have done it consistently over a sustained period of time.

 

Like I say, I'm not suggesting he never has a poor game - he does, as do others. I just think it seems some on here are quick to find fault.

 

And yes, I am born and bred an Aussie. But I am also a born and bred Evertonian. And I have spent my fair share of time living in (and loving) the city of Liverpool.

[Hafnia]

Ok world class, let's throw this out there, it's a load of rubbish in it's description, vague isn't even in it. Even Simon cowell refers to some x factor acts as being world class! WTF!! So in that case some snotty nosed 19 year old with an attitude who covers James brown can be compared with the man himself? Load of crap.

 

For the purpose of the discussion I will try and compare Cahill to the best in the world, at least that I think is the nearest we can define this so overused term. In terms of the best in the world he ain't even near. One reason for this is that in terms of technical ability he is a million miles away. There are many more technically able players in terms of passing, shooting, tackling, first touch, vision who aren't considered world class. For me he can't play in a two man central midfield nor is a striker.

 

 

Is he effective? Yes, when an opponents superior technique is overcome by his tenacious nature. Would I have him ahead of a fit again rodwell? Nope.

 

A world class player would never be sacrificed for potential world class in our squad, when others could make way.

 

Sorry if this long winded, thinking as I type on iPhone, to summarise, yes Cahill is an effective player and has been a talisman. Don't confuse this with world class.

 

Players I have seen in an everton shirt I rate as being better in terms of technical comparison to Cahill stretches very far, the difference is many of them you have never found yourself arguing as to whether they are world class. Limpar, kanchelskis, bracewell the list is huge.

 

Goater was effective for man city, was he world class?

Edited October 20, 2010 by Hafnia2

[MikeO]

Too often though after a quiet game from Cahill I read posts on this forum about how he shouldn't be a starter anymore, or that he is too old and past it. It seems to me that he is not offered the right to the odd quiet game like other players are.

Sorry but that's completely ridiculous.

 

You're suggesting we give him a harder time than other players.

 

Why would we? Because he's Australian?

 

Just doesn't hold up, every player gets a hard time if they're having a rough patch, Tim is no different.

[Hafnia]

Sorry but that's completely ridiculous.

 

You're suggesting we give him a harder time than other players.

 

Why would we? Because he's Australian?

 

Just doesn't hold up, every player gets a hard time if they're having a rough patch, Tim is no different.

 

I think we must have caught it from our neighbours across the park, how could they be so nasty about Harry kewell?

 

In all seriousness, we as evertonians have been privileged to see some exceptional players in out time. None of whom have had the none stop fan fare that Cahill has had. He is a valuable member of the squad. Full stop.

 

Just as an FYI - found his shrugging off and lack of acknowledgement to seamus Coleman a little unfair. The lad laid it up for him after a great run. Ok, heat of the moment etc but young member of squad, show a little appreciation.

[marcopaulo]

he's world class at what he does..unteachable gift that he has and is virtually unmarkable..6 years later and teams still can't deal with the one trick he has so that makes it a world class trick in my book..simple as that for me

[buddy]

Sorry but that's completely ridiculous.

 

You're suggesting we give him a harder time than other players.

 

Why would we? Because he's Australian?

 

Just doesn't hold up, every player gets a hard time if they're having a rough patch, Tim is no different.

 

I'm not suggesting that it is because he is Australian. Leon Osman (although not as good as Cahill) is another who doesn't get the respect he deserves and he is English so your theory doesn't hold up.

 

What I am referring to is that when Pienaar, Arteta, Howard or Jags have poor games there is never a suggestion that perhaps they shouldn't be in the starting XI (and nor should there be). For some reason though, a quiet Tim Cahill game brings out the posters calling for him to be replaced. I suppose I don't understand why he doesn't get the same flexibility that the above mentioned players do.

 

I guess it comes down to what another poster has mentioned - he is not a "pretty" or a technical player. So unless he scores, his other work around the ground often goes unnoticed.

 

My comment about English whinging was somewhat tongue-in-cheek (just getting some friendly rivalry going before the ashes).

 

For what it's worth - I do not back all Aussies regardless of their output. I saw Lucas Neill for what he was worth - a stop gap, but ultimately a player who would always walk elsewhere for cash, and to be honest not a player of Everton quality (gives away far too many free kicks and goes to ground too often).

[Hafnia]

I'm not suggesting that it is because he is Australian. Leon Osman (although not as good as Cahill) is another who doesn't get the respect he deserves and he is English so your theory doesn't hold up.

 

What I am referring to is that when Pienaar, Arteta, Howard or Jags have poor games there is never a suggestion that perhaps they shouldn't be in the starting XI (and nor should there be). For some reason though, a quiet Tim Cahill game brings out the posters calling for him to be replaced. I suppose I don't understand why he doesn't get the same flexibility that the above mentioned players do.

 

I guess it comes down to what another poster has mentioned - he is not a "pretty" or a technical player. So unless he scores, his other work around the ground often goes unnoticed.

 

My comment about English whinging was somewhat tongue-in-cheek (just getting some friendly rivalry going before the ashes).

 

For what it's worth - I do not back all Aussies regardless of their output. I saw Lucas Neill for what he was worth - a stop gap, but ultimately a player who would always walk elsewhere for cash, and to be honest not a player of Everton quality (gives away far too many free kicks and goes to ground too often).

 

My take on it is that the team needs to be structured to accommodate tim's game, which often means 5 in midfield. When he does play well it is usually when he scores, as his game is not tackling or passing or dribbling. It is usually making a nuisance. Your likes of arteta, pienaar bring more guile to the team and are far more involved in build up play. They are fundamental to the operation of the midfield. We have no other players of their like who can create or spot a pass. Ossie can, but for me is a squad player.

[Bill]

"But I suppose the English will always find something to whinge about..."

 

 

Now who's doing the whinging.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

I'm not suggesting that it is because he is Australian. Leon Osman (although not as good as Cahill) is another who doesn't get the respect he deserves and he is English so your theory doesn't hold up.

 

What I am referring to is that when Pienaar, Arteta, Howard or Jags have poor games there is never a suggestion that perhaps they shouldn't be in the starting XI (and nor should there be). For some reason though, a quiet Tim Cahill game brings out the posters calling for him to be replaced. I suppose I don't understand why he doesn't get the same flexibility that the above mentioned players do.

 

I guess it comes down to what another poster has mentioned - he is not a "pretty" or a technical player. So unless he scores, his other work around the ground often goes unnoticed.

 

My comment about English whinging was somewhat tongue-in-cheek (just getting some friendly rivalry going before the ashes).

 

For what it's worth - I do not back all Aussies regardless of their output. I saw Lucas Neill for what he was worth - a stop gap, but ultimately a player who would always walk elsewhere for cash, and to be honest not a player of Everton quality (gives away far too many free kicks and goes to ground too often).

 

 

 

You seem to be taking a bit of undue flack here, because I agree with what you are saying about Cahill. He does seem to be a target for the boo boys in here. Especially last season when he was playing with an injury and being shuffled about all over the park to help fill the gaps (ie taking one for the team). Understandably his form suffered, and he was getting slaughtered in here

 

A lot of people only seem to appreciate him when he is scoring goals but there is a hell of a lot more to his game than that.

His sheer enthusiasm and desire to play for the shirt is infectious and seems to lift all the other players in the side.

 

I wouldnt worry too much about people having a pop at him in here because the important thing is that his manager and his team mates certainly do appreciate the job he does

[MikeO]

You seem to be taking a bit of undue flack here, because I agree with what you are saying about Cahill. He does seem to be a target for the boo boys in here.

He's no more a target than anyone else imo, which is where the argument breaks down. What would be the motivation for picking on him more than anyone else?

There's not a single player in the squad who's not been given a hard time on here when it's been warranted, and at times TC's played below his best. He gets no more stick than (for example) Ossie, Hibbo, Neville, Distin, Arteta, Bilyaletdinov, Fellaini, Beckford, Yakubu and Saha (and less than most of them).