The Winter Of Discontent.

[Bill]

This could be the season that will change everything, we have been over achieving for a number of years now and this year could see it all change. It started with the Gosling saga which may have been an oversight but now there is also Anichebe and Pienaar wanting pastures new.

 

If we end up in mid table mediocrity as it seems likely we will, the reality of players like Baines, Arteta, Jagielka, Fellaini, and Cahill will be that the honeymoon is over and we are going nowhere, they will all want to better themselves, and there will be no shortage of teams with more money than us who will be very "interested" in taking them.

 

Moyes will have to start from scratch again and I'm not sure lightning could strike twice, it would be too much to expect top 4 and top 5 places ever again without an influx of a very large sum of money. Enjoy it while you have it because my gut feeling tells me it will be downhill from here.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

This could be the season that will change everything, we have been over achieving for a number of years now and this year could see it all change. It started with the Gosling saga which may have been an oversight but now there is also Anichebe and Pienaar wanting pastures new.

 

If we end up in mid table mediocrity as it seems likely we will, the reality of players like Baines, Arteta, Jagielka, Fellaini, and Cahill will be that the honeymoon is over and we are going nowhere, they will all want to better themselves, and there will be no shortage of teams with more money than us who will be very "interested" in taking them.

 

Moyes will have to start from scratch again and I'm not sure lightning could strike twice, it would be too much to expect top 4 and top 5 places ever again without an influx of a very large sum of money. Enjoy it while you have it because my gut feeling tells me it will be downhill from here.

 

 

 

I said pretty much the same thing in the summer when most people were getting carried away with this "best squad in years" bollocks.

 

Its unfortunate that we are losing Piennar but I couldnt give a monkies about Big Vic even though hw was starting to show a bit of promise.

I think Felli's decision will be pivotal in what direction the club goes in from here. We do have some saleable assets in Hietinga, Yak and Yobo and there should be some money coming in from the sale of Bellefield and the new hospitality building as well as the new Chang deal.

 

Its not like we need a complete overhall of the squad. If Felli stays we only need a RW,LW and a CF. Maybe we could swap Piennar for Krancjar.

 

ps. Never mentioned "King" Louis as a saleable asset because I dont think anyone would be daft enough to buy him

Edited December 11, 2010 by duncanmckenzieismagic

[Blue 250]

Pienaar would be wanting to leave even if we were 4th at present.......he wants more money NOT more success!He's probably going to Spurs, they can give him more money, will they win things who knows!

 

Who cares about Gosling, and Anichebe is just an angry young man, whos career has never got going and is trying to get a massive deal just like every other greedy footballer.

 

Plenty of teams having bad times at the moment, Villa, Fulham and over the last few weeks even Chelsea (can't buy a win).

 

If players want to leave what the hell can Moyes or Everton do about it, other than throw more money at them.Glen Johnson wants to leave liverpool, carrigher and Gerrard are getting towards the end of their prem life, they (the fans) hate their manager and if they finish mid-table will Torres and Reina want to leave....is their winter and less discontent than ours!

 

If some of our players (stars) want to leave us because we aren't winning things, finishing high enough....(or paying them enough money), then let them go, get in players with fight in their bellies and a hunger to prove themselves.....players like those can beat teams bursting with big name....Everton 1 West Brom 4.....Chelsea 0 Sunderland 3.

 

If we were sitting 4th, and if we'd scored goals and turned draws and defeats into wins that's where we would be, then even Pienaar wanting away, Anichebe wanting more money and Gosling having left wouldn't seem such a problem.

 

 

Is this "our winter of discontent"....yes if you want to see it that way!

 

Today if we beat wigan, it gets just that bit more sunny and spring like.....it's only a game after all.Not worth putting your head in the gas oven.Any way have you seen the price of gas

[Bill]

Ha Ha, I'm not worried about Gerrard, Carragher, Torres, Reina or Johnson, also not worried about West Brom, Sunderland, Villa, Fulham or Chelsea. Not even remotely concerned about the price of Gas.

However i am worried about Everton and the direction they are going, even if we win today it might take us up a couple of places, but we will still be nearer to the bottom than the top and summer is a long distance away. Its going to be a very bleak winter.

 

"If we were sitting 4th, and if we'd scored goals and turned draws and defeats into wins that's where we would be."

 

Yeah if only, if my Auntie had balls, she'd be my Uncle.

[marcopaulo]

yeah but who'd be your aunty?

[MikeO]

I was in quite a good mood this morning 'til I read that .

 

Remind me not to come to the pub with you Bill....think you'd take a sip out of your pint and then worry that it was almost empty .

 

It's a viewpoint but I think it's overly pessimistic.

 

PS. I'd happily have a pint with you really Bill....specially if you're paying, this gas price rise has hit hard .

[Bill]

Pessimistic ? maybe ... Realistic ? Definitely, Its time to remove the blue tinted glasses and face the real world.

 

But I'd gladly share a pint with you Mike, next time i'm in your area i'll seek you out, I'm not the miserable old bugger that people think i am.

[Blue 250]

Ha Ha, I'm not worried about Gerrard, Carragher, Torres, Reina or Johnson, also not worried about West Brom, Sunderland, Villa, Fulham or Chelsea. Not even remotely concerned about the price of Gas.

However i am worried about Everton and the direction they are going, even if we win today it might take us up a couple of places, but we will still be nearer to the bottom than the top and summer is a long distance away. Its going to be a very bleak winter.

 

"If we were sitting 4th, and if we'd scored goals and turned draws and defeats into wins that's where we would be."

 

Yeah if only, if my Auntie had balls, she'd be my Uncle.

So we didn't outplay Wolves (missed many chances) 1-1.....2 points lost.

 

we were far better than Villa, Couldn't score 0-1.........3 points lost.

We missed chance galore against Bolton....................2 points lost.

We were the better team against Sunderland 2-2............2 points lost.

Even West Brom who thrashed us we missed loads 1-4...say 1 point lost.

 

Those lost points would have put us 5th!.....perhaps your aunty does have balls

 

And of course your not worried about gas prices you get £200 pounds of tax payers money, oh well at least you and your aunty won't freeze your balls off

 

No Evertonians happy with our current plight, I'm just not going to let it spoil my day ...Sure if we beat Wigan today we are still closer to the bottom than the top, but if we troop of that pitch having won 2-0 I for one will be pretty happy.

 

Pienaar will still want to leave (unless we throw more money at him)...Anichebe will still be asking for more money....and Gosling isn't coming back.....but shit we will have won a game of football and we'll move on to next with the players we've got and try and win that one.It's what we do, it always help if we score more goals than the other team, with a bit of luck things like that might come good.....hope springs eternal!

[Louis]

I've been saying the same as Bill for a while too, I think we peaked at the FA Cup Final and 4th place finish. I can't see it being possible to replicate that achievements for a long time.

[Hafnia]

Depends which way you look at things, I'm spoilt in the sense that my first game watching everton was a 5-0 win against forest in the 84-85 season.

 

In that time my expectations for being an evertonian was set. Despite disappointments along the way the expectations are still high, I still want more. Whether it be the board, the manager or the players.

 

At the moment I feel we are four new players away from a "great" team. I have said this for a while and will continue to do so till money is spent, and yes that's a whole new argument. Two wide men and two new strikers.

 

Wish list? Andy Carroll, Matt Jarvis, I would take nzogbia, Danny wellbeck, approx 40m worth.

 

Sell, yak, Saha, Billy, heitinga, yobo, maybe 35m worth

[Bill]

Blue 250 ...

"And of course your not worried about gas prices you get £200 pounds of tax payers money, oh well at least you and your aunty won't freeze your balls off"

 

 

 

Thats where your wrong because this year its £250, and after 50 years of hard work, and seeing as i am one of those tax payers, i think i deserve to get it.

In 50 years i think paid more than enough taxes to warrant it, unlike some others.

[Blue 250]

Blue 250 ...

"And of course your not worried about gas prices you get £200 pounds of tax payers money, oh well at least you and your aunty won't freeze your balls off"

 

 

 

Thats where your wrong because this year its £250, and after 50 years of hard work, and seeing as i am one of those tax payers, i think i deserve to get it.

In 50 years i think paid more than enough taxes to warrant it, unlike some others.

 

In that case chuck another log on the fire and cheer up!

 

There are some people in this country who will never be able to get a decent job, so they certainly wont be paying much in the way of tax.......should we let them freeze!

Congratulations on 50 years work, that's one day going to be as rare as an Everton forward scoring a hatrick.

 

I hope we make it just a little bit too hot for Wigan at Goodison today....and I don't mean turn up the under soil heating.

[Bill]

You get it for being a senior citizen, not for the amount of years you've worked.

 

I'm not replying to you again because your tending to ramble on a bit.

[Blue 250]

You get it for being a senior citizen, not for the amount of years you've worked.

 

I'm not replying to you again because your tending to ramble on a bit.

 

I think every one understands what a winter fuel allowance is, and we know it's for senior citizens, but you said you'd worked x amount of years and paid your taxes as if that was what made you worthy...."unlike some others"....implying "others" may not be worthy!You were the one linking paying tax to fuel allowance.

 

I'm only replying to your original post to try and cheer you up a bit......is it working

[rubecula]

I think I must be a bit of a pessimist too in reality. I am still feeling that we don't have a lot of chance of winning the league this year, and of course I am also a bit dubious about winning the Champions League in Europe next year.

 

 

But then I cheer myself up with the thought that we will not be in the Blue Square next year either.

 

 

Yes I am being a cunny funt here but seriously we do seem to look at the bad side of things a lot these days and seldom look at the bright future (which admittedly is a bit hidden just now)

 

There are many good things about being an Everton supporter, albeit there are bad things too, but every club has a bad side. OK we may have more problems than Man Utd, but we have less than West Ham Utd.

 

It is sometimes difficult to keep your chin up, especially if you remember the Happy Times like us oldies do, but if you keep on thinking of the best things, life may not get better but hopefully it will look a bit brighter.

 

No matter what happens I am an Everton Supporter, I have been an Everton Supporter since I first knew what football was, like my father and his brothers and their father before them..... which oddly takes us back to the 1800's

 

I will still be an Everton Supporter when I am put 6 feet under. It is something you simply have to have faith in. There will always be hard times but equally there will always be good times. If you do not understand the sadness you will never understand the happiness.

 

 

I Went along to watch Liverpool beat us 5 - 1 (sad sad)

I went to Wembley and watched us win the cup (Happy happy)

I saw our first game against Man Utd at Goodison after they were promoted. (6 - 2) and they sang Happy Christmas Everton when we scored... (Very sad)

I saw big Dunc terrify Man Utd defence and we won(happy)

 

 

So basically it is not that you shouldn't see the bad things, but it is good if you do not concentrate on them to the exclusion of all that is good about being an Everton Supporter.

 

Anyone can point the finger (I have done it myself) All it does is depress others and yourself.

 

So my advice, is try to look at the brighter things and point them out more to yourself. We will never win every game in a season, so never worry about it.

 

The Blues will rise again.... perhaps not for a while I admit, but at least we are not sinking either.

[Bill]

Rubes ...

 

So my advice, is try to look at the brighter things and point them out more to yourself. We will never win every game in a season, so never worry about it.

 

The Blues will rise again.... perhaps not for a while I admit, but at least we are not sinking either.

 

- - - -

 

 

We're a bit deeper in the water than we were a couple days ago, and we seem to be getting nearer to that Iceberg.

[thehelmet]

Wish list? Andy Carroll, Matt Jarvis, I would take nzogbia, Danny wellbeck, approx 40m worth.

 

Sell, yak, Saha, Billy, heitinga, yobo, maybe 35m worth

 

If we get an average of 7 mil for those 5 I'd be more than happy, sadly I feel more like we'd be hardpressed to get 5 mil for the pair of Yak and Saha. Bily and Heiting we might or might not be able to recuperate but I think not, Heitinga hasn't played for while now and when he did he didn't really impress. Bily's proven that he can't hack it at this level. Yobo I think we'd be lucky to get 5 from that as well.

To be honest I'd be happy if we mustered 20 from Saha, Bily, Heitinga and Yobo and Moyes could work his magic, keep the Yak and try and nurture him for a bit.

 

Heitinga had fantastic potential to become a real Goodison great but recent performances and Moyes reluctance to play him feels to me as if something's not quite right there (bad apple?).

 

I'd take N'Zogbia from that list, then look for bargains. Carroll for us would seem like moving back 10 years, I remember last year we outplayed Arsenal with the same setup of small quick footballers, the main difference being that ours wouldn't shirk on battling it out when push came to shove.

 

Where's the spirit from previous seasons?

[Romey 1878]

http://www.nsno.co.uk/everton-news/2010/12/moyes-hamstrung-by-pennyless-kenwright/

[Hafnia]

http://www.nsno.co.uk/everton-news/2010/12/moyes-hamstrung-by-pennyless-kenwright/

 

Whilst I have created many a response with my criticism of Kenwright, the "current" concerns are not about him it's about Moyes.

 

The squad Moyes has should be beating teams of the Blackpool, Sunderland, Wigan, Blackburn, etc comfortably. My criticism of Kenwright comes into play when we are unable to get that extra 4 players that would see us challenge top 4 - my criticism comes into play when we are supposed to be thankful for not being relegated and Kings dock and Kirby are painted as small errors. At the moment Moyes can't get the team beating lower half teams!

 

Moyes is an ambitious man? That's what we are forever hearing, sadly it is something I do not believe. If ambition means being content to juggle a squad using valued players to buy more gambles then yes. Ambition is not equal to a poor record against the "top 4" - ambition is not 2 decent cup runs in his time here. Ambition is not setting a team up 4-5-1 at home against teams we should batter. Ambition is not deploying Heitinga to man mark Charlie Adam when we should be giving them something to think about.

 

It seems Moyes and Kenwright are made for each other, Moyes I believe feels less pressure operating on a shoe string budget as the expectations will be less and he can't lose - hey, 6th place is amazing on a net spend of zilch, Kenwright can then happily sit back and take plaudits for steadying the ship whilst pointing at the demise of Portsmouth etc whilst forgetting that Spurs have happily stepped into the position of the top 4 challenger.

 

Moyes may have ruffled Bill's feathers with his latest "we will have to sell Pienaar to spend in Jan - by the way it will probably be a loan" - just in case we forgot that he is working a miracle and it's not his fault we are in a relegation battle. Unfortunately this has needed to happen. The Bill and Dave boys club needs challenging.

 

Will my opinion change if Moyes get's the club on another unbeaten run? No, I gave credit when he received manager of the month, but this was achieved on the basis of steadying the ship getting a couple of wins and not losing games we expected to lose. The same issues appear over and over, he does not seem to learn from his mistakes, he reverts to an overly cautious approach. I am thankful for the job he did in getting the club to a mid to top half team, that does not give him the right to stay and stagnate.

 

For the best what needs to happen is a bit of a fall out between Kenwright and Moyes, resulting in the undoubted complacency of "successful survival" being challenged.

Edited December 13, 2010 by Hafnia2

[Formby]

I saw our first game against Man Utd at Goodison after they were promoted. (6 - 2) and they sang Happy Christmas Everton when we scored... (Very sad)

 

I was at that game. Xmas'77. I think Utd came up the year before (75-76 season) because (memory serves) we were stuffed by them then, too. The memory of that drubbing was only erased by Sheedy at al hammering them 5-0 in 85 (and, of course, the cup final in 95).

[Lowensda]

I just have a silly view on the prep of games and player motivation. I feel we are way too defensive in our approach play and personally, i have an inclin that there maybe a few fingers being pointed in the direction of some backroom staff, and in particular their previous experiences that maymirror our very own style of play. Im talking about our backroom staff, all being of a defensive nature and lacking someone with any sort of attacking instinct. I just read an article from a guy, written a couple of years ago, expressing his concerns about Alan Irvines successor, Steve Round and tbh...i couldn't agree more. Why we didn't look at attack minded coaches I don't know, but at this moment in time id love wilkins, a charismatic guy with great attack style coaching methods. Everton are too afraid to lose that they forget how to win!

[Lowensda]

Toffeeweb article:

 

After doing some digging around I found this article I remember posting posted in 2008 (I think)...Hate to say I told you so.

 

Our first signing of the summer has been tied up and Steve Round has completed his move to Everton from Newcastle. Alan Irvine, Moyes's first assistant, has been missed a lot since he left and I think that the results from the last 6 or so games proved this. But who can begrudge him a shot at being manager of one of the biggest Championship clubs, Preston North End?

 

Alan Irvine was a winger in his playing days. We could do with a decent winger next season in my opinion. One who could feed the Yak. Now last season, with Moyes and Irvine in charge, we were strong at the back with Jag's, Yobo and Joey Lescott and we had Cahill, Arteta, and Osman, who had a great season last campaign. Who can forget that goal in the Uefa Cup? Then upfront we were feeding the Yak and scoring. For three months of the season we were playing the best football I've seen in my whole life at Goodison. I don't want to compare it to the 80s because I wasn't alive then but my Dad says it was just as good as the times when Peter Reid and Trevor Steven were feeding Sharpy.

 

However, as I mentioned before, some of the football last season was awful. Hoofball was an understatement. Our defence was sound but our attack seemed non-existent with AJ running wide and Yak not seeming to be able to hit a cows arse with a banjo. Moyes is a fantastic manager and he has shown his coaching attributes defensively by the amount of goals conceded this year. It's no coincidence that since he's been in charge, clean sheets have been increased ten-fold.

 

I've done some research into Steve Round and found out that he was a full back at Derby County until an injury ended his playing career and he went on to become Newcastle's assistant manager. I don't want to be pessimistic but, like Moyes, he was a defender in his playing days and usually defensive players tend to be defensive managers ? Brian Robson, Steve Bruce to name but a couple.

 

Spurs have got the right idea I think. A strict disciplinarian Juande Ramos in charge with a touch of flair alongside him in Gus Poyet. Spurs may've conceded a few goals last season but they scored just as many with some fantastic football all around the park. Yes, they have more money than we do, but I think the style of football a team plays is more to do with the type of management the players are given than the players them selves. Anyone can hoof the ball 70 yards to the striker... equally just as anyone can look for the nearest blue shirt and play neat one-twos to feet. Arsenal do this fantastically, the pass-and-move style they play is excellent on the eyes. I think that this just proves that it's more down to tactics than the calibre of player involved.

 

Now Steve Round seems to have some great qualities as a coach which I don't doubt for one minute. My only question would be are they any different to the qualities Moyes already possesses? He has built up a great spirit throughout the squad and management,which make us a team extremely difficult to break down. But to break into that top four, you also need to posses flair and quality which we showed in spells last season. Arteta provides this; so does Osman, but all too often, when we are struggling or have a few injuries, the ball gets launched in the air towards a striker who isn't that tall.

 

Now I know the old saying, If you don't concede, you can't loose. which is very true. But, If you don't score, you won't win. But I think it's time to decided what we want. Should we take a risk and play it on the floor? Or should we cut out the middleman and send it forward in the air, knowing that we won't concede many because Lescott and Yobo are at the back?

 

All I know is that I wish Steve all the best and hopefully next year we'll be playing like the class of the eighties week-in, week-out.

[Kohen]

That post needs some paragraphs

[Maghull70]

I've been saying the same as Bill for a while too, I think we peaked at the FA Cup Final and 4th place finish. I can't see it being possible to replicate that achievements for a long time.

 

Possibly true but also bit pessimistic.

If this season is anything to go by (with the "top" teams dropping more points than weve seen in recent years) then I see no reason why Everton cant keep in touching distance with those teams if that trend continues.

 

Perhaps we wont reach the current standard of the top 3 teams but it seems that the top teams standard is dipping and the league is all the better for it because with a bit of luck the likes of Everton will beable to challenge at least 4th spot.

 

Look at Bolton lying in 6th spot, 5 points off 4th, 6 points off 2nd & 8 points off 1st.

 

Surely you see Everton as being capable of being as good as the 'mighty' Bolton?. Or are you really THAT depressed?.

[Bill]

Possibly true but also bit pessimistic.

If this season is anything to go by (with the "top" teams dropping more points than weve seen in recent years) then I see no reason why Everton cant keep in touching distance with those teams if that trend continues.

 

Perhaps we wont reach the current standard of the top 3 teams but it seems that the top teams standard is dipping and the league is all the better for it because with a bit of luck the likes of Everton will beable to challenge at least 4th spot.

Look at Bolton lying in 6th spot, 5 points off 4th, 6 points off 2nd & 8 points off 1st.

 

Surely you see Everton as being capable of being as good as the 'mighty' Bolton?. Or are you really THAT depressed?.

 

Thats because they have won a few games, i understand what you say about the top teams not being so good this season. (although Man U havent lost a game yet).

If we had hit our normal standards we could have been up in 5th place, and deffo a bit closer than usual to the top Four teams, but 3 wins in 17 games is relegation form.

I'm not so much depressed, just saddened to see the end of a team that could have achieved so much more if only we had come out of the blocks running, instead we stumble out every year and have to play catch up.

Lescott was the 1st to realise that this team can go no further, Pienaar will be the next one to move on and i wont be surprised if there are others who follow.

 

Depressed ?? hell no i'm one of the few peeps who have seen us play in the 2nd tier, a winter wednesday night travelling to the likes of Rochdale or Barnsley is what i call depressing.

[Lowensda]

That post needs some paragraphs

Be my guest! As all my posts whithin the last couple of months have been via my phone, just copying and pasting has become a mission, so in regards to paragraphing, i simply cnt be bothered

[Blue 250]

Talking to a liverpool fan yesterday, Hadn't seen him for a while and asked him what he thought of the season so far.

 

His opinion was that Everton were playing by far the better football(than liverpool) this season and that we have a better squad, he would swap managers with us at the drop of a hat and finally the new owners maybe not be exactly what they need.So it's not just our fans who are depressed.

 

Lescott left Everton for one reason £....and if we offered Pienaar the same as Spurs plus a couple of grand he would stay.Players will always make out their reason for leaving isn't money, surely you'd need to be stupid to believe them.

 

Maghull is correct, we are not falling behind other teams in a major way.We are out playing teams but just can't bloody score.

[Bill]

Talking to a liverpool fan yesterday, Hadn't seen him for a while and asked him what he thought of the season so far.

 

His opinion was that Everton were playing by far the better football(than liverpool) this season and that we have a better squad, he would swap managers with us at the drop of a hat and finally the new owners maybe not be exactly what they need.So it's not just our fans who are depressed.

 

Lescott left Everton for one reason £....and if we offered Pienaar the same as Spurs plus a couple of grand he would stay.Players will always make out their reason for leaving isn't money, surely you'd need to be stupid to believe them.

 

Maghull is correct, we are not falling behind other teams in a major way. We are outplaying teams but just can't bloody score.

 

 

Thats like saying the defence are playing great but we keep giving away a couple of goals, so saying that we are out playing teams just doesnt make sense, what it really means is that we are shite.

[The Beard]

A good win at City, followed by a routine (well for us a scrappy 1-0)victory against Birmingham, then a hard fought win against Stoke will set us up nicely to see off Spurs before a workmanlike performance to knock out Scunthorpe out of the cup and all in the garden will begin to look more rosy.

p.s Santa don't forget my new socks as well.

Edited December 15, 2010 by The Beard

[Maghull70]

....but 3 wins in 17 games is relegation form.

 

 

Perhaps, but if you come from the glass half full side of things then you could also argue that only 5 defeats in 17 games is NOT relegation form.

 

Even Arsenal have lost 5 games so far.